Star Wars Blu-Rays... Again

[Solo4114]

I would challenge the idea that the audience doesn't care about the SE changes, especially the effects shots. They are much more dynamic and to remove those would be noticeable and likely less desirable in terms of the "general" audience.

Eh, I don't think it'd make that huge of a difference. My recollection of the dynamic action CG shots is mostly of, like, 2-3 shots in ANH dealing with the dogfight above the Death Star. The other shots are things like the Mos Eisley flythrough which, to be honest, I don't think adds a ton that people would really miss. That stuff is, in my opinion, the classic example of "CG because we can, not because it adds anything."

 

[Bryancd]

Eh, I don't think it'd make that huge of a difference. My recollection of the dynamic action CG shots is mostly of, like, 2-3 shots in ANH dealing with the dogfight above the Death Star. The other shots are things like the Mos Eisley flythrough which, to be honest, I don't think adds a ton that people would really miss. That stuff is, in my opinion, the classic example of "CG because we can, not because it adds anything."

Modern stylistic sensibility. Younger viewers watching the OOT will find it exceedingly slow and those dog fights won't help. There's no reason for Disney to not carry of with the SE and I feel with almost 100% certainty that's all they will support.

 

[Axlotl]

I don't really care if "modern" audiences like the OOT or not. It's film history - it should be preserved.

 

[Jeyl]

Modern stylistic sensibility. Younger viewers watching the OOT will find it exceedingly slow and those dog fights won't help.

See, I think that's absolute rubbish. Some of the most obvious inclusions to the Special Editions are scenes that are nothing but slow-paced visual effects like the extended Desert Search, the drive by in Mos Eisley and that super repetitive and out dated depiction of Jabba the Hutt that covers the exact same ground that the Greedo scene already covered. The Special Editions actually slow things down where as the originals were more to the point. Outside of some effects shots looking more modern, how exactly do the Special Editions make these movies feel like they're less of a drag?

 

[Bryancd]

See, I think that's absolute rubbish. Some of the most obvious inclusions to the Special Editions are scenes that are nothing but slow-paced visual effects like the extended Desert Search, the drive by in Mos Eisley and that super repetitive and out dated depiction of Jabba the Hutt that covers the exact same ground that the Greedo scene already covered. The Special Editions actually slow things down where as the originals were more to the point. Outside of some effects shots looking more modern, how exactly do the Special Editions make these movies feel like they're less of a drag?

Sure the Jabba scene doesn't add anything visually or to the story, but the enhanced effects in general make the film seem less dated to younger viewers. We've had numerous threads with parents here on the RPF showing their kids these movies in various formats over the years and they tend to prefer the enhanced visuals. This has nothing to do with the preservation of the originals, this is a question of which films will continue to be mass produced for future releases and the answer is the SE.

 

[Jeyl]

Sure the Jabba scene doesn't add anything visually or to the story, but the enhanced effects in general make the film seem less dated to younger viewers.

Really? Which parts did they love more? Vader's Pink Lightsaber?

Or Mr. Ronto walking in front of the screen?

And there of course lies the other problem. Even the enhanced visual effects by today's standards... looks horribly dated. Not even the newly incorporated CGI Jabba did much to fix the issue.

 

[Mola Rob]

What is the freaking problem with giving people a choice? Is it really so bad that some prefer to see the movie as they first saw it? Some of us would like to relive the moment when we first saw the movie in the theater and recapture a little of the magic. I personally cannot do that when CGI Jawa's fall off from cartoony beasts or when Han Solo so unrealistically steps over a really poorly done Jabba. What is so damn important to Lucas that his altered and more infantile versions of the OT are the only ones available to watch in HD? I just don't get, I can't think of any other instance where a movie has been altered and the original version was only available in an inferior format.

 

[Bryancd]

What is the freaking problem with giving people a choice? .

Besides the economics, nothing.

 

[Jeyl]

Besides the economics, nothing.

A problem with Economics. That implies that there is no market for the OOT which is ludicrous. Even Lucasfilm to an extent bowed to fan pressure in releasing the unaltered films on DVD. And offering alternate versions on the same disc is a field that Disney is familiar with. The Beauty and the Beast 3D BluRay contains no less than four alternate versions of the film, the Lion King comes with two versions and Muppets Most Wanted came with three. If someone could convince Disney that there was a market for not one, but three versions of The Muppets Most Wanted, I think someone would have an easier time convincing the video department that there's a market for the OOT.

 

[Mola Rob]

There's a market for it and Disney is well aware of it it. They have more than ample resources and I have a feeling it will be released in the not too distant future. Just announcing it would cause more free positive buzz than they could ever hope for by sheer marketing alone.

 

[Bryancd]

A problem with Economics. That implies that there is no market for the OOT which is ludicrous. Even Lucasfilm to an extent bowed to fan pressure in releasing the unaltered films on DVD. And offering alternate versions on the same disc is a field that Disney is familiar with. The Beauty and the Beast 3D BluRay contains no less than four alternate versions of the film, the Lion King comes with two versions and Muppets Most Wanted came with three. If someone could convince Disney that there was a market for not one, but three versions of The Muppets Most Wanted, I think someone would have an easier time convincing the video department that there's a market for the OOT.

My God, you are still so annoying. There is a very limited market for the OOT. Dan and I have discussed this 1000X on this forum. The economics are that Disney has zero incentive to pay for the rights from Fox as they will expire in the next 6 years holistically. ANH is the film OOT fans would like to see in it's 1977 release condition yet those same fans can't even agree on exactly what that is. Fox own those rights in perpetuity. Disney can cut deals with Fox to release the SE far into the future with a revenue sharing agreement. The other 5 films will be 100% Disney owned. There motivation to do a OOT release mat eventually happen, but the economics are still very niche. And Fox isn't agent to pay dime one to do any work on ANH as long as they own it.

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There's a market for it and Disney is well aware of it it. They have more than ample resources and I have a feeling it will be released in the not too distant future. Just announcing it would cause more free positive buzz than they could ever hope for by sheer marketing alone.

No....

 

[Mola Rob]

It must be hard being right about everything related to Star Wars all the time. It would tire me out...

 

[Bryancd]

It must be hard being right about everything related to Star Wars all the time. It would tire me out...

It's not about STAR WARS per se, it's about financial decisions. That's what I do for a living. I am a Disney shareholder, I understand how the company operates and how Bob Iger will guide this company for their shareholders. I am almost 47 and would love to see the OOT released in a format other then the DVD release we got of the laser disc version, but I also understand the economics and the addressable market for the product. It's very, very small. It seems bigger here on the RPF and in other online communities, but that's an exaggeration. The reality is 90% of people who want to purchase a SW film on any format is not motivated by the edition. So there is no economic incentive at the moment. You said you think they will do this in the not too distant future. I presented why that's not the case. It would be prohibitively expensive to buy those rights back from Fox.

 

[Jeyl]

ANH is the film OOT fans would like to see in it's 1977 release condition yet those same fans can't even agree on exactly what that is.

Well, there's an easy solution. Don't let the fans be in charge of the actual release. Leave it to the professionals who can get access to such information and figure it out.

 

[Bryancd]

Well, there's an easy solution. Don't let the fans be in charge of the actual release. Leave it to the professionals who can get access to such information and figure it out.

Ok, but let's run that to its conclusion. LucasFilm makes their creative choices, Disney ponies up the ransom money to Fox, and 25% of the 5% that really want this hate it and don't buy it. Fools errand.

 

[Jeyl]

Ok, but let's run that to its conclusion. LucasFilm makes their creative choices, Disney ponies up the ransom money to Fox, and 25% of the 5% that really want this hate it and don't buy it. Fools errand.

If there is debate regarding what the original release version of the film was, why not include all possibilities on the disc? If there's a difference in audio, have a track for it. If there's a difference in video, incorporate it via seamless branching. There are so many ways to reshape one movie on one disc that you could have every alternate version of the film from it's original theatrical release all the way to it's last THX Restored VHS release before the Special Editions.

Funny thing about distributers. There are actually studios who are not directly associated with one actual film distributer. These seperate studios will come up with the darndest things to make a release so much more incentivizing. Ever heard of filmmaker Charles de Lauzirika? He managed to convince Warner Bros. to fund a massive Special Collector's Edition of Blade Runner that would span five discs for each of the three different formats that were available at the time (DVD, BluRay and HD-DVD). Warner Bros. said that there was little market for it, but Charles managed to convince them to do it. The set wound up being a phenomenal success and still ranks as one of the best disc releases for a movie ever, and that had five versions of the film!

 

[Bryancd]

Fair enough but it doesn't address the cost of acquiring the ANH distribution rights. With new films coming out Disney is looking forward, not backward. The economic reality is the future is SW as a franchise not the past.

 

[The Terminator]

That would still be very time consuming and expensive and not quite as easy as it sounds. When working with CG/3D models you build to the final resolution that you're going to render out at, this means that you only put in as much detail as you think you'll be able to see on screen and no more because to do so means more time modelling and more time rendering those extra unseen details. So for them re-render the effects out at a higher res they'd probably have to go back into the models and re-work them so that they don't look like crap at twice the original resolution, how much would depend on how detailed the made the original models and how much they overbuilt them or not.

I work with 3D and motion graphics so I am very well aware of this even when you like with, if I remember it correctly DS9 do add way more details and such than is necessary. Hitting the render button to render it all again will take time and will cost money either way indeed. Sometimes you need to convert the existing models to a different format in order to use them and that is like open a whole nother can of worms.

Well, there's an easy solution. Don't let the fans be in charge of the actual release. Leave it to the professionals who can get access to such information and figure it out.

There were different versions of the original film even in '77. Not all theaters had the same sound system so there were several sound mixes for example so it is not easy at all to "release the original"

If there is debate regarding what the original release version of the film was, why not include all possibilities on the disc? If there's a difference in audio, have a track for it. If there's a difference in video, incorporate it via seamless branching. There are so many ways to reshape one movie on one disc that you could have every alternate version of the film from it's original theatrical release all the way to it's last THX Restored VHS release before the Special Editions.

That would be one way :thumbsup

If there is debate regarding what the original release version of the film was, why not include all possibilities on the disc? If there's a difference in audio, have a track for it. If there's a difference in video, incorporate it via seamless branching. There are so many ways to reshape one movie on one disc that you could have every alternate version of the film from it's original theatrical release all the way to it's last THX Restored VHS release before the Special Editions.

Funny thing about distributers. There are actually studios who are not directly associated with one actual film distributer. These seperate studios will come up with the darndest things to make a release so much more incentivizing. Ever heard of filmmaker Charles de Lauzirika? He managed to convince Warner Bros. to fund a massive Special Collector's Edition of Blade Runner that would span five discs for each of the three different formats that were available at the time (DVD, BluRay and HD-DVD). Warner Bros. said that there was little market for it, but Charles managed to convince them to do it. The set wound up being a phenomenal success and still ranks as one of the best disc releases for a movie ever, and that had five versions of the film!

I still have Blade Runner on HD-DVD

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

There were different versions of the original film even in '77. Not all theaters had the same sound system so there were several sound mixes for example so it is not easy at all to "release the original"

Is this where we begin the debate about whether Luke said "Blast it, Biggs, where are you?" or "Blast it, Wedge, where are you?"

--Jonah

 

[DakGibralter]

Ok, but let's run that to its conclusion. LucasFilm makes their creative choices, Disney ponies up the ransom money to Fox, and 25% of the 5% that really want this hate it and don't buy it. Fools errand.

I think an OOT release of any sort would sell very well. I don't know anyone who would refuse to buy an OOT just because of something as negligible as a sound mix or cleaned up matte lines.

Comparing the differences in the SEs versus the minor differences between '77 releases is apples and oranges - one is a piece of cinematic history, and the other is a great trilogy shrouded by a fog of ego and mediocre CGI. what we all want is what was released in 1977. Some die hards may gripe about special features, but I want to show my kids the Star Wars I grew up with, and (much more importantly) I want future filmmakers to see what made Star Wars so groundbreaking.

I completely agree that no matter how lucrative it would be, it will never sell enough for Disney to buy the rights from FOX now. But I really believe that in a few years, when an OOT is released, it will sell like crazy. It's not just SW fans that want the unaltered version, it's film fans - and that's a much larger and more economically powerful demographic.