Star Trek Picard Season Three

[Captain Dunsel]

Not only have sensors changed, the Changlings have also…well…”changed” since DS9…

In DS9 they were presented as golden-colored liquid forms (almost honey-looking) that did not leave any slime or trace elements behind…

…now, they are presented as a disgusting-looking “raw meat” form that somewhat resembles a blend of raw bacon and ground beef that leaves behind a visible trail of “goo”.

The Changlings have become really very vomit-like creatures. The Great Link must now look like a roiling mass of raw meat, blood, and fat.

Of course, it’s a much more sophisticated visual effect, now.

 

[renaissance_man]

Ya, that was a limitation of the sensors in DS9. It's 30 years latter, the technology has advanced.

I would respectfully disagree. Yes sensor technology advances with time. However, even back during TNG and DS9 times the sensors would have been capable of detecting residue of any kind.
Given the past threat the Changelings posed it would no doubt be standard policy to have all Starfleet ship's internal sensors calibrated to detect this residue.

Your point about the advance in the technology would mean the Changeling would have been detected when they came aboard if they are carelessly leaving this goo behind all the time.
However you split it, this is a plothole in the writing. They needed a quick fix to find the Changeling within the episode but didn't track the logic back on this apparent trait.

 

[Picard102]

I would respectfully disagree. Yes sensor technology advances with time. However, even back during TNG and DS9 times the sensors would have been capable of detecting residue of any kind.
Given the past threat the Changelings posed it would no doubt be standard policy to have all Starfleet ship's internal sensors calibrated to detect this residue.

Your point about the advance in the technology would mean the Changeling would have been detected when they came aboard if they are carelessly leaving this goo behind all the time.
However you split it, this is a plothole in the writing. They needed a quick fix to find the Changeling within the episode but didn't track the logic back on this apparent trait.

I think the point they are making is that they need a sample of the specific changling for the sensors to detect them. Otherwise yes, it would just detect them as a standard.

 

[pengbuzz]

Not only have sensors changed, the Changlings have also, well, changed since DS9…

Whereas in DS9 they were presented as golden-colored liquid forms (almost honey-looking) that did not leave any slime or trace elements behind, now, they are presented as a disgusting-looking “raw meat” form that somewhat resembles a blend of raw bacon and ground beef that leaves behind a visible trail of “goo”.

The Changlings have become really very vomit-like creatures. The Great Link must now look like a roiling mass of raw meat, blood, and fat.

View attachment 1679400

So they went from "stuff you might put on your cereal" to stuff Taco Bell left out of their beef filling for tacos...

 

[jts1031]

Not only have sensors changed, the Changlings have also…well…”changed” since DS9…

In DS9 they were presented as golden-colored liquid forms (almost honey-looking) that did not leave any slime or trace elements behind…



…now, they are presented as a disgusting-looking “raw meat” form that somewhat resembles a blend of raw bacon and ground beef that leaves behind a visible trail of “goo”.

The Changlings have become really very vomit-like creatures. The Great Link must now look like a roiling mass of raw meat, blood, and fat.

Terry Matalas has stated on Twitter that this difference will be addressed in one of the future episodes. Maybe this and the resigoo will be a result of the cure Odo took back to the Great Link.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

The Changlings have become really very vomit-like creatures. The Great Link must now look like a roiling mass of raw meat, blood, and fat.

View attachment 1679400

I once had a pretty severe sinus infection that left residue just like that!

 

[Lightning]

If all you had to do was scan for Changeling "residue" there would never have been a problem with infiltrators,

I think the point they are making is that they need a sample of the specific changling for the sensors to detect them. Otherwise yes, it would just detect them as a standard.

Admittedly they wrote this bit poorly, but as presented you can only scan for a transformed changeling if you have a sample of that specific changeling. So having Odo on file won't do them any good. Plus they explicitly established that a Tricorder wasn't powerful enough to do the analysis of the sample, you need a science lab. Also, That pot wasn't identical to Odo's just similar. They were both cone shaped but are differently proportioned and have differing vertical design elements, . I see no reason a Changeling wouldn't replicate a similar pot if they needed one, knowing what worked well for Odo.

As for the Resigoo, clearly it's only left behind after regeneration, not after normal shapeshifting. It makes sense this would leave byproducts behind, as it's a necessary part of their biological process. It's basically their poo. No wonder Odo never mentioned it.

 

[edge10]

I guess you can always spot a Changing because they evidently will be carrying the same standard issue “Odo Ooze Bucket” with them, wherever they travel to?

View attachment 1679298

 

[NakedMoleRat]

As for the Resigoo, clearly it's only left behind after regeneration, not after normal shapeshifting. It makes sense this would leave byproducts behind, as it's a necessary part of their biological process. It's basically their poo. No wonder Odo never mentioned it.

I’m that case, it should be called ‘Resipoo’.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

A changeling is sleeping in a corner of the bar, when two tobacco chewing cowboys walk in…

 

[NakedMoleRat]

If anyone wants the coaster set seen in last week’s 10 forward scene…

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YC68776?ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_KT1CSW498EM8Y3VNFFR1

 

[asalaw]

Sensor capabilities have always been a matter of story convenience. In The Man Trap, Kirk says they can pinpoint a match anywhere on the planet. In Squire of Gothos, they can’t distinguish human life forms. In The Enterprise Incident, they can’t tell Romulans apart from Vulcans. I’m sure there are myriad other examples across all the other series of sensor capability that varied inversely with story requirements. And movies too—in The Mutara Nebula, sensors don’t work at all. In Undiscovered Country, the cloaked bird of prey has “gotta have a tailpipe,” but for some reason their sensors can’t see it. If you want technological consistency, find another franchise.

 

[Gregatron]

Not only have sensors changed, the Changlings have also…well…”changed” since DS9…

In DS9 they were presented as golden-colored liquid forms (almost honey-looking) that did not leave any slime or trace elements behind…

View attachment 1679429

…now, they are presented as a disgusting-looking “raw meat” form that somewhat resembles a blend of raw bacon and ground beef that leaves behind a visible trail of “goo”.

The Changlings have become really very vomit-like creatures. The Great Link must now look like a roiling mass of raw meat, blood, and fat.

View attachment 1679400



Of course, it’s a much more sophisticated visual effect, now.

One wonders if they’d try to link the Changelings to the Denevan parasites, which looked like blobs of rubber vomit.

 

[pengbuzz]

Sensor capabilities have always been a matter of story convenience. In The Man Trap, Kirk says they can pinpoint a match anywhere on the planet. In Squire of Gothos, they can’t distinguish human life forms. In The Enterprise Incident, they can’t tell Romulans apart from Vulcans. I’m sure there are myriad other examples across all the other series of sensor capability that varied inversely with story requirements. And movies too—in The Mutara Nebula, sensors don’t work at all. In Undiscovered Country, the cloaked bird of prey has “gotta have a tailpipe,” but for some reason their sensors can’t see it. If you want technological consistency, find another franchise.

As an attempt to do the impossible here, I would have to say that it would depend upon the planet and / or the situation-

The Man Trap: Normal M-class world with nothing interfering with sensors, can distinguish that closely.

Squire of Gothos: The planet Gothos was iron-sillica, a unique construct created by Trelane that had two different machines that sustained its' environment and created whatever Trelane wanted per his desires. Any and all of these could produce interference that in combination would have interfered with the Enterprise's sensors.

The Enterprise Incident: "Needle in a haystack", considering Romulans and Vulcans are from the same race pretty much. I think you'd have to fine tune it to a particular person like Spock to get anywhere.

STII:TWoK: As stated, the gas and dust interfered with sensors (including visual), as well as shields. Makes for a tense battle situation, double-blind hiding place, and a really poor date night setting.

STVI:TUC: Considering that they were carrying specialized equipment to "catalog gaseous anomalies", detecting that kind of plasma output may have been outside the sensing abilities of the normal range of sensor suites aboard the E-A.

ST: PICARD: DAMMIT MAN, I'M A PENG-BUZZ, NOT A MIRACLE WORKER!!!!!!

 

[bwayne64]

So Changeling's, be like ; )

 

[asalaw]

As an attempt to do the impossible here, I would have to say that it would depend upon the planet and / or the situation-

The Man Trap: Normal M-class world with nothing interfering with sensors, can distinguish that closely.

Squire of Gothos: The planet Gothos was iron-sillica, a unique construct created by Trelane that had two different machines that sustained its' environment and created whatever Trelane wanted per his desires. Any and all of these could produce interference that in combination would have interfered with the Enterprise's sensors.

The Enterprise Incident: "Needle in a haystack", considering Romulans and Vulcans are from the same race pretty much. I think you'd have to fine tune it to a particular person like Spock to get anywhere.

STII:TWoK: As stated, the gas and dust interfered with sensors (including visual), as well as shields. Makes for a tense battle situation, double-blind hiding place, and a really poor date night setting.

STVI:TUC: Considering that they were carrying specialized equipment to "catalog gaseous anomalies", detecting that kind of plasma output may have been outside the sensing abilities of the normal range of sensor suites aboard the E-A.

ST: PICARD: DAMMIT MAN, I'M A PENG-BUZZ, NOT A MIRACLE WORKER!!!!!!

All of which prove my point. These are all story contrivances. Hell, in Mark of Gideon, it’s politics that foil the sensors. When the writers can’t have the sensors do their job, they don’t—regardless of the reason. Same with the transporter—you can’t beam with the shields up, until in Taste of Armageddon, Fox impliedly does. It’s not even discussed, it just happens off screen. The central component of Treknology isn’t the transtator, it’s the story.

 

[Gregatron]

Something I’ve thought about, over the years:


STAR TREK worked hard from Day One to create a believable sense of future technology without getting bogged down in the details. TOS didn’t even explain how the transporter worked until the third-to-last episode of the series. All of the technology was used in service of the storytelling, and also provided a sense of what kind of shirtsleeve, casual environment a futuristic spaceship could potentially be.

The later series got deeper into technobabble and physics and whatnot, but the storytelling was still (usually) the most important thing.

And it always should be.

If you employed any kind of realistic cause-and-effect, the series’ format would break down. Numerous episodes feature advances in technology (the Kelvans’ modified engines, etc.) which would completely alter how the Federation and Starfleet operated. Instead, most episodes simply hit the reset button, and ignored such advances. And, of course, the Enterprise could travel to both the center and edge of our galaxy in a matter or days or hours, which is simply not possible. Most famously, the transporter (and all of its contrivances and malfunctions) was invented so the VFX team wouldn’t have to show the ship landing on a planet, every week.

What I’m saying is that TREK has always (or until 2009, at least) worked to provide a believable sense of the future without getting bogged down by the strict and limiting requirements of HARD science-fiction. The fundamental purpose of STAR TREK as a storytelling platform (not a political one) is to have our heroes travel from one place and situation to another and explore the human condition by way of metaphors, ethical dilemmas, and character drama.

So, yes, we get the occasional plot contrivance or major scientific inaccuracy. And it’s a price I’m happy to pay, frankly. THE WRATH OF KHAN, for example, is a movie built upon numerous contrivances and coincidences. But I wouldn’t change a second of it, because the story of Jim Kirk facing death and overcoming his melancholy over getting older was worth telling, and has depth and heart.

At the end of the day, story and characters are all that truly matter. Yes, some contrivances are legitimate examples of bad writing, but many of them should not be deemed so important as to completely ruin the story being told. STAR TREK is thoughtful entertainment, not a science class.


…of course, none of this excuses the grotesque scientific gobbledygook of NuTREK. Because the future it presents is not believable, and the stories it tells are neither honest nor worth paying the price of our enduring said gobbledygook.

 

[pengbuzz]

All of which prove my point. These are all story contrivances. Hell, in Mark of Gideon, it’s politics that foil the sensors. When the writers can’t have the sensors do their job, they don’t—regardless of the reason. Same with the transporter—you can’t beam with the shields up, until in Taste of Armageddon, Fox impliedly does. It’s not even discussed, it just happens off screen. The central component of Treknology isn’t the transtator, it’s the story.

All stories are contrivances, Aslaw. Fiction itself is a contrivance; you remove that and basically, we'd all have to find a different hobby to complain about! :rofl:

 

[asalaw]

Something I’ve thought about, over the years:


STAR TREK worked hard from Day One to create a believable sense of future technology without getting bogged down in the details. TOS didn’t even explain how the transporter worked until the third-to-last episode of the series. All of the technology was used in service of the storytelling, and also provided a sense of what kind of shirtsleeve, casual environment a futuristic spaceship could potentially be.

The later series got deeper into technobabble and physics and whatnot, but the storytelling was still (usually) the most important thing.

And it always should be.

If you employed any kind of realistic cause-and-effect, the series’ format would break down. Numerous episodes feature advances in technology (the Kelvans’ modified engines, etc.) which would completely alter how the Federation and Starfleet operated. Instead, most episodes simply hit the reset button, and ignored such advances. And, of course, the Enterprise could travel to both the center and edge of our galaxy in a matter or days or hours, which is simply not possible. Most famously, the transporter (and all of its contrivances and malfunctions) was invented so the VFX team wouldn’t have to show the ship landing on a planet, every week.

What I’m saying is that TREK has always (or until 2009, at least) worked to provide a believable sense of the future without getting bogged down by the strict and limiting requirements of HARD science-fiction. The fundamental purpose of STAR TREK as a storytelling platform (not a political one) is to have our heroes travel from one place and situation to another and explore the human condition by way of metaphors, ethical dilemmas, and character drama.

So, yes, we get the occasional plot contrivance or major scientific inaccuracy. And it’s a price I’m happy to pay, frankly. THE WRATH OF KHAN, for example, is a movie built upon numerous contrivances and coincidences. But I wouldn’t change a second of it, because the story of Jim Kirk facing death and overcoming his melancholy over getting older was worth telling, and has depth and heart.

At the end of the day, story and characters are all that truly matter. Yes, some contrivances are legitimate examples of bad writing, but many of them should not be deemed so important as to completely ruin the story being told. STAR TREK is thoughtful entertainment, not a science class.


…of course, none of this excuses the grotesque scientific gobbledygook of NuTREK. Because the future it presents is not believable, and the stories it tells are neither honest nor worth paying the price of our enduring said gobbledygook.

I agree right up to the last point, at least with respect to PS3. I think the writing this time around has been vastly better than the other two seasons and in fact anything else Paramount+ has yet offered Trek-wise, and I think the character drama has been compelling. In particular, Picard’s realization of what he said to Jack years before, without knowing who he was, is IMO a real gut punch. I loved it.

The only thing that bugs me, and this is a real niggle, is the directing style. Frakes is going with a lot of hand-held close-ups and dirty singles for drama, which smacks of network TV, while the overall look is cinematic with anamorphic lenses. It’s a weird combo to me. If I get to go to Trekconderoga again this year, I intend to ask him about that.

All stories are contrivances, Aslaw. Fiction itself is a contrivance; you remove that and basically, we'd all have to find a different hobby to complain about! :rofl:

Well… yeah…

 

[Gregatron]

All of which prove my point. These are all story contrivances. Hell, in Mark of Gideon, it’s politics that foil the sensors. When the writers can’t have the sensors do their job, they don’t—regardless of the reason. Same with the transporter—you can’t beam with the shields up, until in Taste of Armageddon, Fox impliedly does. It’s not even discussed, it just happens off screen. The central component of Treknology isn’t the transtator, it’s the story.

I agree right up to the last point, at least with respect to PS3. I think the writing this time around has been vastly better than the other two seasons and in fact anything else Paramount+ has yet offered Trek-wise, and I think the character drama has been compelling. In particular, Picard’s realization of what he said to Jack years before, without knowing who he was, is IMO a real gut punch. I loved it.

The only thing that bugs me, and this is a real niggle, is the directing style. Frakes is going with a lot of hand-held close-ups and dirty singles for drama, which smacks of network TV, while the overall look is cinematic with anamorphic lenses. It’s a weird combo to me. If I get to go to Trekconderoga again this year, I intend to ask him about that.


Well… yeah…

I was speaking of NuTREK in general, mind you. Particularly when we have such infamous gems as the magic mushroom engine and the constant crying and validation of Mikey Spock, etc.