Star Trek Into Darkness (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Dave Porter
- Start date
No, actually he helped make my point. Zuiun stated that the Transwarp beaming was used only "ONCE" but I countered it by saying it was also used when Scotty beamed Kirk and Spock over to the Narada since the distance between Saturn and Earth is a lot further than being in close orbit around the planet. When Zuiun said he thought they were just using the standard transporter, I made this point.
Jeyl said:
You see, if the Enterprise could use the transporter anywhere in the solar system, there was no reason to remain in orbit around Vulcan while the black hole was consuming it. And yes, the Enterprise was in danger of the black hole that was consuming Vulcan as said in the film itself.
OFFICER: The black hole's expanding. We won't reach minimum safe distance if we don't leave immediately.
So why don't they just leave orbit and use the standard transporter to beam everyone out from a safe distance? Well, obviously because than they'd be out of range. Why else would Spock order the Enterprise to maintain standard orbit around Vulcan? I doubt he gave that order just so he could see the Enterprise from orbit when he transported onto Vulcan's surface.
Lost21stJedi
Well-Known Member
No I didn't make your point. No one knew that technology worked until Prime Spock helped Scotty perfect it so Spock could not use it to save his family. Using your argument to its logical conclusion, The Kobiyashu Maru (sp) test is void because Kirk could have stayed on Earth and beamed everyone to safety. Even if there was still a 50% chance of failure, the odds of survival were better for both crews of the KM and whatever Federation ship attempted to rescue them.
You don't need to go that far to paint the Kobayashi Maru test as pointless. Cripes, the test was void the moment Spock said it was meant to induce fear into cadets.
Zuiun
Sr Member
Actually, guys, I gotta give Jeyl credit on this one. I almost misread his comment the same as you. Despite the fact that it once again jumped track completely away from the point of the discussion, here's what he was getting at:
I said they only used the transwarp transport technology once. That's all I remembered. However, Jeyl recalls that when the Enterprise was hiding near Saturn, they beamed Kirk and Spock to the Narada -- at a distance considerably greater than a standard orbit. So, if I'm right, and they didn't use the transwarp transport technology there and instead only used the "normal" transporter, that makes the earlier scene on Vulcan make no sense because the Enterprise wouldn't have needed to remain so close to the planet.
I conceded that I honestly don't recall if they specifically said whether or not they used the transwarp transport that second time. However, back to MY original point, even if they did, it hardly proves the technology was safe, as we are still looking at a 50% failure rate in terms of accuracy.
I said they only used the transwarp transport technology once. That's all I remembered. However, Jeyl recalls that when the Enterprise was hiding near Saturn, they beamed Kirk and Spock to the Narada -- at a distance considerably greater than a standard orbit. So, if I'm right, and they didn't use the transwarp transport technology there and instead only used the "normal" transporter, that makes the earlier scene on Vulcan make no sense because the Enterprise wouldn't have needed to remain so close to the planet.
I conceded that I honestly don't recall if they specifically said whether or not they used the transwarp transport that second time. However, back to MY original point, even if they did, it hardly proves the technology was safe, as we are still looking at a 50% failure rate in terms of accuracy.
Lost21stJedi
Well-Known Member
Yes it was used twice but both times were after Prime Spock gave the equation to Scotty so his argument that it could have been used to save the Vulcans is invalid. There is absolutely no proof that the technology was ever used succesfully before Scotty and Kirk were beamed onto the Enterprise.
SSgt Burton
Sr Member
Zuiun
Sr Member
He wasn't saying it could have been used to save the Vulcans.* He was saying that if it wasn't used to beam to the Narada, then that means the normal transporters would have to have enough range that the Enterprise didn't need to remain in orbit around Vulcan.
*I can't believe I'm actually defending Jeyl here...
I understand what that must feel like all thing considering. I am grateful however that you have chimed in and treated this discussion as an actual discussion instead of a witch hunt. It can be real fun having these discussion where we dig deep into a story and see what makes it tick. I always knew that they used the Transwarp equation in order to get Spock and Kirk onto the Narada, but when you said they used it only once on Delta Vega, I actually had to go back and see if I could find anything in the film to support it. Sure enough, I found it. Spock needs the Enterprise to be in orbit around Vulcan while at the same time the Enterprise needs to leave if it is to escape the black hole that is consuming it.
And going back to what I said before, this is why having rules for technology like this is so important. Restricting the transporter to a limited range creates obstacles that our heroes have to overcome. This isn't to say that the rule should never be broken, but that if you are going to break it, it shouldn't be done lightly. Putting Scotty in the water tubes was breaking the rule lightly since the obstacle was played more for random laughs than being full of tension the way Spock's rescue was played out. And the concept that
Khan can beam himself from a speeder on Earth all the way to the Klingon homeworld without any consequence doesn't really paint Starfleet (even with it's secret organization) as competent in the slightest. The Federation has just lost one of it's founding planets with almost all of it's population, and they have in the means to help evacuate an entire planet's population from one world to another. Is the system becoming unstable? Is there a huge fleet of enemy ships coming to invade? Is the planet's population in danger period? Beam them off to a different far away planet! Or if a planet is facing a controllable disaster that is short on people who are trained and equipped to handle it, beam a whole party of professionals to help out. As much as there is a need to develop new weapons to fight off threats such as Nero, there should be an equal need to ensure the safety of a planet's population from being trapped on a doomed planet.
JiminSTLouis
Master Member
I'm seeing the movie Thursday afternoon. For those that have seen it, is the 3D worth it? I want to see it on the biggest screen possible, but all showings on those screens in my area are 3D. That's not my first choice.
Riceball
Master Member
My guess is that it's not. Outside of Avatar and Bolt I haven't seen a single 3D movie that was actually worth the extra cost.
Father
Sr Member
Didn't see Bolt but I agree. Avatar was mind blowing in 3D. Everything else is just gimmicky still.
Zuiun
Sr Member
My personal opinion is that 3D is a distraction. I haven't seen a single film yet that I didn't get MORE out of from the 2D version - and that includes Avatar (even though the 3D work in Avatar was pretty amazing, I still felt like I got more out of the visuals with 2D).
Crimsonnaire
Sr Member
I like the new series, even though Scotty is severely mischaracterized, going from the reserved, serious type to the joke cracking sarcastic type. The thing I'm concerned about is that, from the latest, more revealing preview, the new series seems to be carrying a pattern of single-character antagonists launching Wrath of Khan/Nemesis confrontations with multi-angle embellishments of exciting CGI filled danger scenes orbiting around them. Anyone else gotten the same impression?
Of course, I can't say for sure, since I haven't seen it yet. But, if this is actually the case, should we have reason to expect the same from the new Star Wars series? And, more importantly, would this be a good thing for Star Wars? I think it could be if the delicate balance is carefully maintained, for excitement and thrill is probably something Star Wars fans have been supplemented with from the expanded universe avenue.
Of course, I can't say for sure, since I haven't seen it yet. But, if this is actually the case, should we have reason to expect the same from the new Star Wars series? And, more importantly, would this be a good thing for Star Wars? I think it could be if the delicate balance is carefully maintained, for excitement and thrill is probably something Star Wars fans have been supplemented with from the expanded universe avenue.
Star Trek Collective has some picture of the Hot Wheels toy version of the USS Vengeance and the D4 Klingon Bird of Prey.
LINK
I think the Collective is right. She does resemble the Enterprise E at certain angles. The way her saucer section is built closer to the secondary hull and how there's a huge arrow like shape on the saucer section where the bridge is located at it's point.
LINK
I think the Collective is right. She does resemble the Enterprise E at certain angles. The way her saucer section is built closer to the secondary hull and how there's a huge arrow like shape on the saucer section where the bridge is located at it's point.
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