Robinson
Sr Member
I think people are using the term "universe" incorrectly, it should be alternate timeline. but it can be argued that differing timelines are alternate universes. At least in the world of trek it can be argued.
Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
I think people are using the term "universe" incorrectly, it should be alternate timeline. but it can be argued that differing timelines are alternate universes. At least in the world of trek it can be argued.
I accept your apology.
Making crap up? Have you not seen side-by-side comparisons of the new actors playing the roles of the original series cast? They practically aimed to ensure that the new cast would at least be identifiable to their original series counterparts, even going the extra step to cast an actual russian actor, Anton Yelchin for the role of Chekov. If that kind of direction matters, I think it should matter to one of the most iconic Star Trek villains in the franchise's history. If race, gender and nationality don't matter to a character's background as long as it has no relevance to the story, I see no reason why Lindsay Lohan couldn't have played Uhura in this new take.
Mola Rob
Sr Member
I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that Khan was from India in Space Seed, the fact that he was had no relevance to the story except it attracted the attention of a busty historian. In both Space Seed and ID he could have easily been a super human tyrant from any corner of the world except for one thing...his name was Khan Noonien Singh. Probably not a common a name amongst pasty rubber faced British guys. That's what I thought was silly about using the Khan character in ID and having Cumberbatch play him. They could have called him Bob Jones and it would have fit better.
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His nationality has no bearing on his character. You're welcome, happy to set you straight.
Solo4114
Master Member
I'd also point out that most people know Khan as the dude who looks kinda like he stepped out of an early 80s heavy metal video, rather than the version from Space Seed. Montalban's portrayal of Khan, particularly in TWOK, has basically zero connection with his ethnicity. Admittedly he represents a closer VISUAL to a Sikh (well, minus the fact that he wears his long hair openly and has no beard...) in Space Seed, but other than that, what's his ethnicity got to do with his character? Zip. Zilch. Nada. Khan could just be a title, and they could make him Castillian or Arabic or Mongolian or whatever and it still wouldn't matter for purposes of the major story points. You drop the line of dialogue about him being a Sikh -- which isn't even really visually represented, and CERTAINLY isn't one whit related to the character's actions or decisions -- and you're back to him being playable by anyone.
To put it simply:
There is nothing inherent to the character in terms of his behavior, actions, choices, or mannerisms that requires him to be played by any particular ethnicity. All we have is a name, a reference to him probably being a Sikh even though he clearly doesn't observe any of the religious customs that Sikhs do, and....an actor with tan skin who played him originally. That's it. There's no reason he can't be played by a British guy because there's nothing abotu the character other than those factors that would suggest or require he be played by a person with tan skin.
Oh, and hey, the Brits ruled India for around a century, so there's another argument for why a Brit could play a guy with an Indian name and no other real connection to his Indian ethnicity.
Also, Space Seed never happened with the reboot.
To put it simply:
There is nothing inherent to the character in terms of his behavior, actions, choices, or mannerisms that requires him to be played by any particular ethnicity. All we have is a name, a reference to him probably being a Sikh even though he clearly doesn't observe any of the religious customs that Sikhs do, and....an actor with tan skin who played him originally. That's it. There's no reason he can't be played by a British guy because there's nothing abotu the character other than those factors that would suggest or require he be played by a person with tan skin.
Oh, and hey, the Brits ruled India for around a century, so there's another argument for why a Brit could play a guy with an Indian name and no other real connection to his Indian ethnicity.
Also, Space Seed never happened with the reboot.
kialna
Sr Member
Than why does it matter if Uhura is black? Would you argue that point if Uhura was played by a caucasian actress?
Which is why it would make sense for a british man with no real connection to indian ethnicity to associate himself with a picture of a native indian wearing a turban.... right?
Solo4114
Master Member
Riceball
Master Member
Is the argument about whether or not Cumberbatch was the appropriate actor cast as Kahn really a valid argument? I ask because I'm not certain that his full real name, and country/region of birth was even mentioned in STID. From what I can recall he was given an and known by an alias initially and then later in the movie we find out he's really Kahn, but, as far as I can remember they only referred to a Kahn and never Kahn Noonian Singh, or did they?
jlee562
Sr Member
JJ Spock did inquire about Khan to Prime Spock, and Prime Spock's reaction indicated that they are one in the same.
I'm a bit of two minds on Cumberbatch. On the one hand, I agree with JJ that the end result is what counts. Charlton Heston isn't Mexican, but that doesn't mean that he didn't do good in the role for Touch of Evil. On the other hand, as an Asian American myself, I am concerned generally about the whitewashing of characters. It simply strains credulity that there was no available actor of South Asian descent who could have played the role.
I'm a bit of two minds on Cumberbatch. On the one hand, I agree with JJ that the end result is what counts. Charlton Heston isn't Mexican, but that doesn't mean that he didn't do good in the role for Touch of Evil. On the other hand, as an Asian American myself, I am concerned generally about the whitewashing of characters. It simply strains credulity that there was no available actor of South Asian descent who could have played the role.
Mola Rob
Sr Member
I still don't understand the decision to make him Khan to begin with. The character was such a generic bad guy and Cumberbatch was just so dry and monotone it didn't fit the far more passionate character we knew. That's par for the course with JJ Trek I guess, keep the name change all the details.
Well there you go. I thought I liked it but now you got me convinced!. Lol
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jlee562
Sr Member
On this you and I agree. I don't see any reason the antagonist needed to be Khan in STID. Frankly, it would have been more interesting if he were a Klingon (but then everybody would be saying it ripped off Undiscovered Country).
Considering that Khan has completely different motivations in STID than he does in TWOK though, I'm not surprised by the change in tone. The more apt comparison would be STID and Space Seed, which I think is more on the mark. In both, Khan has more going on in his head than he lets on, and manipulates people to do his bidding without them knowing it.
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