Another 5 years of creatively bankrupt tripe from Kurtzman. Well, again, CBS wont be getting a single penny from me until they eject Mr Kurtzman and start making, intelligent, quality Star Trek with interesting, likable characters.
Star Trek: Discovery (2017)
- Thread starter mkstewartesq
- Start date
I wouldn't hold out hope, Kurtzman has shown his cards time and again. He has no clue how to make Star Trek.
Real Star Trek is dead.
Just saw the news and came here to see if anyone was talking about it. Nice to see I'm not alone in my Tony Stark level of eyeroll at this. I still have a dream that it will fail so hard that CBS put the whole i.p. on the block for pennies on the dollar and Rod Roddenberry can buy it back, and maybe by then Outlander will have finished and Ron and Ira will be available again to get a whole new generation of non-suck Trek going to reinvigorate interest.
The thing I still don't understand... I have friends who have been fans since the original series first aired who like Picard and Discovery and Lower Decks. I have friends who discovered Trek through the JJ films, found their way to TOS and TNG (and liked them better), who like Picard and Discovery. And I just do not understand how someone can watch and like the good stuff... and also watch and like the terrible. These are not general-audience casual fans who never look past the surface. We're talking making Trek art, buying merch, making props and costumes, etc.
I feel like there's something there that needs to be understood, but I haven't been able to put my finger on it. Something that needs to be puzzled out before going forward with anything else. How can the people who praised the bright, optimistic future of TNG also see that in Discovery? In TOS we were in the middle of the Cold War, a few years the other side of the Cuban Missile Crisis and Kennedy's assassination, and all of that, so I can't believe that the present moment in history is so bad even Disco looks optimistic by comparison. I can't believe the bulk of the Trek audience is so disillusioned that Picard looks hopeful and confident by comparison.
The thing I still don't understand... I have friends who have been fans since the original series first aired who like Picard and Discovery and Lower Decks. I have friends who discovered Trek through the JJ films, found their way to TOS and TNG (and liked them better), who like Picard and Discovery. And I just do not understand how someone can watch and like the good stuff... and also watch and like the terrible. These are not general-audience casual fans who never look past the surface. We're talking making Trek art, buying merch, making props and costumes, etc.
I feel like there's something there that needs to be understood, but I haven't been able to put my finger on it. Something that needs to be puzzled out before going forward with anything else. How can the people who praised the bright, optimistic future of TNG also see that in Discovery? In TOS we were in the middle of the Cold War, a few years the other side of the Cuban Missile Crisis and Kennedy's assassination, and all of that, so I can't believe that the present moment in history is so bad even Disco looks optimistic by comparison. I can't believe the bulk of the Trek audience is so disillusioned that Picard looks hopeful and confident by comparison.
Just look away from what is being offered for your “viewing pleasure”. I stopped watching New Trek, over a year ago, and am happier for it.
There are better ways to spend one’s time.
BTW, why hasn’t this thread been renamed, properly, as the “RIP Star Trek” thread???
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Lightning
Master Member
So much doom and gloom. For one thing, Kurtzman is now in the supervisory role that he wanted in the first place. He was forced into being hands on for Discovery by all the behind the scenes showrunner drama. I don't think anyone could have made a coherent show given the situation. Discovery has had it's soft reboot so I'm optimistic about it going forward. They've been saying all the right stuff about Strange New Worlds so I'm optimistic about that as well. And personally I think Lower Decks is hilarious, and by far my favorite of the new Trek shows.
I don’t know…
If you find out that an arsonist continues to be put in charge of your local fire department, are your feelings of unease being fueled only by an attitude of “doom and gloom”?
I’ll depend upon those of you that are hanging on, despite the quality of the product being produced to date, to tell me if the mindless regenerated corpse of Star Trek has gone through “The Refusion” and had its mind restored to its body, with future offerings.
I hope for all the best.
On that topic, this is an interesting video.
Cephus
Master Member
I wouldn't be holding my breath that it will ever happen again. Hollywood has become completely creatively bankrupt and doesn't seem to be revering course any time soon.
Bloop
Sr Member
So I'm trying to watch Discovery again. I stopped after season 2 (probably like a lot of folks did), but I'm attempting to watch season 3 now. Only two episodes in, and I'm not too enthused. Some of the things that bothered me are still present. Here's a few observations & opinions:
- Are there any episodes where Michael Burnham doesn't cry? I have no problem with characters crying, male or female, if it serves the story. But when a character cries every episode, it totally diminishes the emotional impact. Obviously this has a great deal to do with the writing, but the actor bears some responsibility as well. Sonequa Martin-Green has a tendency, imo, to over-emote, not just with sadness, but in all her emotional reactions. I understand the wish for an emotional touchstone or whatever, that she's the main character, but "less is more" could be applied here.
- I was glad they at least touched on the fact that every crew member just decided to abandon their families and lives to travel to the future in a still confusing turn of events. I only watched a few minutes of the 3rd episode of season 3, but I saw Tilly crying over everyone leaving their families. I wish they would've done this last season, before they traveled to the future. I understand there's some "duty and honor" in the military stuff happening here, but it seems unlikely that everyone on board would decide to give up on their families and futures, especially so quickly. They could've shown at least a few people contemplating it and some that decided against it, even if they weren't main cast members. Just have it be a throwaway line or something, that X number of crew members decided not to go to the future, that it was too hard.
- The collapse of the Federation and the results of "The Burn" seem a little too much, but I guess it's at least an interesting premise. But that also makes this feel like more "generic" sci-fi. The first episode of S3 especially felt that way to me. Hopefully there will be more connection later (I assume there's more federation connections in future episodes, judging by the new uniforms in season 4).
I haven't read any reviews, but I see that season 4 is getting poor review scores on imdb, though that may actually be a good thing for me, since I don't understand why the previous 3 seasons have gotten relatively high reviews. I heard the format is more episodic, so maybe they're trying to return to more traditional Trek type storytelling, which might upset the people that actually like what ST: D has done up till then, resulting in low scores. I'm tempted to skip ahead to the current season to see, but I probably won't. Not sure if I'll make it through season 3 though.
- Are there any episodes where Michael Burnham doesn't cry? I have no problem with characters crying, male or female, if it serves the story. But when a character cries every episode, it totally diminishes the emotional impact. Obviously this has a great deal to do with the writing, but the actor bears some responsibility as well. Sonequa Martin-Green has a tendency, imo, to over-emote, not just with sadness, but in all her emotional reactions. I understand the wish for an emotional touchstone or whatever, that she's the main character, but "less is more" could be applied here.
- I was glad they at least touched on the fact that every crew member just decided to abandon their families and lives to travel to the future in a still confusing turn of events. I only watched a few minutes of the 3rd episode of season 3, but I saw Tilly crying over everyone leaving their families. I wish they would've done this last season, before they traveled to the future. I understand there's some "duty and honor" in the military stuff happening here, but it seems unlikely that everyone on board would decide to give up on their families and futures, especially so quickly. They could've shown at least a few people contemplating it and some that decided against it, even if they weren't main cast members. Just have it be a throwaway line or something, that X number of crew members decided not to go to the future, that it was too hard.
- The collapse of the Federation and the results of "The Burn" seem a little too much, but I guess it's at least an interesting premise. But that also makes this feel like more "generic" sci-fi. The first episode of S3 especially felt that way to me. Hopefully there will be more connection later (I assume there's more federation connections in future episodes, judging by the new uniforms in season 4).
I haven't read any reviews, but I see that season 4 is getting poor review scores on imdb, though that may actually be a good thing for me, since I don't understand why the previous 3 seasons have gotten relatively high reviews. I heard the format is more episodic, so maybe they're trying to return to more traditional Trek type storytelling, which might upset the people that actually like what ST: D has done up till then, resulting in low scores. I'm tempted to skip ahead to the current season to see, but I probably won't. Not sure if I'll make it through season 3 though.
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NakedMoleRat
Master Member
It gets worse before it gets better, except it doesn’t get better!
TazMan2000
Master Member
For me, season 3 was the worst. It was actually a chore to watch it, but at the hopes that it would somehow culminate in a 'Geez I didn't see that coming revelation' I continued, and then rejoiced when the episodes were over, since I didn't have to waste my time to watch that crap.
So when season 4 hit, I wasn't expecting much and didn't start watching it until 2 episodes in. For me, it has improved, but someone still had to put in a threat to the galaxy again. At least they're developing the characters more so we can understand the relationship between them.
TazMan2000
So when season 4 hit, I wasn't expecting much and didn't start watching it until 2 episodes in. For me, it has improved, but someone still had to put in a threat to the galaxy again. At least they're developing the characters more so we can understand the relationship between them.
TazMan2000
kalkamel
Master Member
Star Trek: Discovery’s future tech is now indistinguishable from magic – and that’s a problem
Opinion: Sorcery in sci-fi clothing is still sorcery
www.techradar.com
It's as frustrating to me as everything Trek over the last twenty-ish years -- much potential... squandered. As I said somewhat upthread, I had created a setting/campaign for the old FASA RPG where the players were the descendants of the crew of a ship that had been surveying a planet when Something Happened™ to subspace and FTL travel and communications were cut off. Even the FTL boosters for the ship's computers didn't work, so everything was borked. The adventure hook was the whatever-it-was had apparently started to clear up, because the computer modules and communications systems on the landed shuttles started working again, a little. They carefully felt there away around the local region, tried to piece things together, figure out how widespread the event was, etc. I have them derelict space stations, abandoned starships hanging dead in interstellar space... Lots of atmosphere and mystery.
When season 3 happened, I wished mightily that Discovery had just started there. "The Burn" had happened sometime previous, things had broken down somewhat, and now some Starfleet engineer had devised a quasi-ethical experimental drive system that might be able to circumvent what had happened. Sonequa could be the daughter or granddaughter of Tuvok or something, rather than the mysteriously-never-mentioned adopted human sister of Spock. Aaaaaaand adventure, GO!
But no...
When season 3 happened, I wished mightily that Discovery had just started there. "The Burn" had happened sometime previous, things had broken down somewhat, and now some Starfleet engineer had devised a quasi-ethical experimental drive system that might be able to circumvent what had happened. Sonequa could be the daughter or granddaughter of Tuvok or something, rather than the mysteriously-never-mentioned adopted human sister of Spock. Aaaaaaand adventure, GO!
But no...
Lightning
Master Member
Season 4 is a definite improvement. There's been way less crying. Lots of talking about feelings now that Culber has taken on the duties of ships councillor. The computer has developed emotions and had a bit of a crisis last episode. But overall definitely better.
I'm going to guess the anomaly is going to turn out not to be a weapon. I'm thinking, alien science experiment gone wrong.
I'm going to guess the anomaly is going to turn out not to be a weapon. I'm thinking, alien science experiment gone wrong.
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
I really...REALLY...hated the “cause” of The Burn in season three.
It may have been one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in a TV show.
It may have been one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in a TV show.
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
I think the threat to the galaxy bit is getting old as well.
I was kind of hoping to see this season pivot to individual episodes, or at least only a couple episodes tied to a storyline.
But once again, the entire season is centered around one story.
I really enjoyed the first two seasons, and a good portion of the third. The back half of the third, though? That just didn’t do much for me.
TazMan2000
Master Member
You're right about the entire season is centered around one story. What they could have based this season on, is rebuilding relationships with former members of star fleet/UFP, first contacts and of course making new enemies. Some 'feel good' stories wouldn't hurt either. It seems like it more bad news every episode. Is a pharmaceutical company bribing the writers?
TazMan2000
Meh, still say it's mediocre general fare, and execrable Star Trek. For reasons laid out in great detail upthread. And yes I've watched up through most of season three, to make sure I can critique from knowledge rather than ignorance.
So, safe to say that this show is still a total bin fire of nonsense. Classic Kurtzman ineptitude.
Wake me up when Kurtzman's contract has expired and someone creative who cares about Star Trek has the reigns.
Oh, that reminds me, only 3 months until season 3 of The Orville! At least there's some new, quality sci-fi to look forward to.
Wake me up when Kurtzman's contract has expired and someone creative who cares about Star Trek has the reigns.
Oh, that reminds me, only 3 months until season 3 of The Orville! At least there's some new, quality sci-fi to look forward to.
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