Star Trek Beyond

[tripoli]

Your kind of misleading my post which noted such.
Funny, because in a way, you made my point that to pursue such with such gusto you do not realize the nuances of others are pointing out, you do more damage than good being centrist minded. In this case, the JJAbrams crew insisting on changing the character when Takei himself notes that it is not such a good idea.

 

[karmajay]

Your kind of misleading my post which noted such.
Funny, because in a way, you made my point that to pursue such with such gusto you do not realize the nuances of others are pointing out, you do more damage than good being centrist minded. In this case, the JJAbrams crew insisting on changing the character when Takei himself notes that it is not such a good idea.

Did you read Pegg's reasons that was posted earlier?

 

[JD]

Your kind of misleading my post which noted such.
Funny, because in a way, you made my point that to pursue such with such gusto you do not realize the nuances of others are pointing out, you do more damage than good being centrist minded. In this case, the JJAbrams crew insisting on changing the character when Takei himself notes that it is not such a good idea.

I'm not misleading anything. the clip you linked to has a misleading headline - the sub-headline is a little more clear. Mr. Takei said: "I’m delighted that there’s a gay character," he then goes on to say it's unfortunate that it's Sulu as Roddenberry was exhaustive in conceiving his Star Trek characters - and Sulu was heterosexual.

I'm making no political comment with that post, just that it has a misleading headline - which said "Takei: Gay 'Star Trek' character would be 'unfortunate'" which implies that a gay character in Trek overall would be unfortunate.

 

[Jedioz]

I think that George understands that the majority of fans are heterosexual, males and females , and that the JJ Trek Sulu being made homosexual may marginalize a lot of fans.

 

[tripoli]

Ah but you did JD by taking my whole quote which you addressed afterwards. Again, which points out just how easy it is to take something in a different direction than the post intended.

"I think that George understands that the majority of fans are heterosexual, males and females , and that the JJ Trek Sulu being made homosexual may marginalize a lot of fans."

And THAT is what people ate tip toeing around isn't it?

Hence my post: " I think he respects Gene's version of Star Trek. Certainly in the ToS and other Star Trek television shows universe, this issue has been tackled repeatedly. So yes, I agree, this is an appeasement to the millinial mentality and by doing so, actually does more harm than good to the movement"

 

[karmajay]

I think that George understands that the majority of fans are heterosexual, males and females , and that the JJ Trek Sulu being made homosexual may marginalize a lot of fans.

Er..what? This has to be one of the silliest statements I have ever read in my life.

 

[astroboy]

Er..what? This has to be one of the silliest statements I have ever read in my life.

Yeah. It seems to me like the only one who has a problem with this is george

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[firesprite]

I think that George understands that the majority of fans are heterosexual, males and females , and that the JJ Trek Sulu being made homosexual may marginalize a lot of fans.

I'm not sure that's actually the word you're looking for. How would it marginalize a lot of fans, exactly? It's not like the entire command staff is being made gay, though that would be kind of awesome in its own way.

 

[JD]

Ah but you did JD by taking my whole quote which you addressed afterwards. Again, which points out just how easy it is to take something in a different direction than the post intended.

 

[The Wook]

I'm not sure that's actually the word you're looking for. How would it marginalize a lot of fans, exactly? It's not like the entire command staff is being made gay, though that would be kind of awesome in its own way.

Firesprite, I too think he meant to use a different word than "marginalize". Probably "alienate". But I'm loathe to put words into his mouth. Perhaps he'll clarify.

The Wook

 

[firesprite]

Firesprite, I too think he meant to use a different word than "marginalize". Probably "alienate". But I'm loathe to put words into his mouth. Perhaps he'll clarify.

The Wook

Oh, I'm quite certain he did (though I wouldn't speculate what word he actually intended).

 

[JD]

I'm not sure that's actually the word you're looking for. How would it marginalize a lot of fans, exactly? It's not like the entire command staff is being made gay, though that would be kind of awesome in its own way.

Some folks are avoiding the fact the Takei has welcomed the addition of a gay character - he just didn't feel that Sulu specifically being gay fit Roddenberry's Star Trek. Takei suggested to John Cho that they make a new character - a character that was gay the whole time and not closeted - which is something Takei was wrong about, this new Sulu wasn't closeted. It sounds like they explained that to him, but he still didn't approve based on Roddenberry's original designs for the character.

 

[firesprite]

Some folks are avoiding the fact the Takei has welcomed the addition of a gay character - he just didn't feel that Sulu specifically being gay fit Roddenberry's Star Trek. Takei suggested to John Cho that they make a new character - a character that was gay the whole time and not closeted - which is something Takei was wrong about, this new Sulu wasn't closeted. It sounds like they explained that to him, but he still didn't approve based on Roddenberry's original designs for the character.

I don't think it matters if Sulu was closeted or not. Frankly, with as heavily as these movies have leaned on the original movies (including lifting scenes wholesale from them), I don't think it's unreasonable for people to assume that this Sulu was straight, as was the original series Sulu.

Again, I don't care if Sulu in NuTrek is gay, straight, or omni-sexual like Dax was. I happen to agree with George that it feels a bit disingenuous to shoehorn this aspect of the character into the story now, in the third film when there's never been even a hint of it before. I also find Pegg's assertion that creating a new well-developed character that just happened to be gay would be tokenism to be laughable.

 

[JD]

I don't think it matters if Sulu was closeted or not. Frankly, with as heavily as these movies have leaned on the original movies (including lifting scenes wholesale from them), I don't think it's unreasonable for people to assume that this Sulu was straight, as was the original series Sulu.

The idea that JJ Sulu was closeted came from Takei's initial comments.

There's so much different between these movies and the original series/movies - the assertion that these movie universes are that similar only need to have a look at Spock/Uhura, the destruction of Vulcan and many other things that are quite different between this new timeline and the old (I dislike the new timeline theory... but, that's a whole other topic).

The last part of your paragraph is a fair one - and one I'm more inclined to agree with. But, along with Spock and Uhura, Captain Robert April and a million other things - it can be retconned however they'd like to.

Again, I don't care if Sulu in NuTrek is gay, straight, or omni-sexual like Dax was. I happen to agree with George that it feels a bit disingenuous to shoehorn this aspect of the character into the story now, in the third film when there's never been even a hint of it before. I also find Pegg's assertion that creating a new well-developed character that just happened to be gay would be tokenism to be laughable.

I've said my two cents about all this... so I'll try to be brief. I disagree with Mr. Takei and agree with Simon Pegg. I can understand Takei's point and understand both sides of discussion - I think it's unfortunate he doesn't see what I feel is the much bigger picture. I also think it would tokenism or pandering by creating a new character simply to make them a gay character - that's absolutely not laughable. Creating a new character, even well rounded, is much more pandering and tokenism than what seems to be happening here. ...and while I haven't given the last two movies a rewatch, I'm fairly certain we've seen nothing to hint that Sulu is straight, either.

As Simon said it best, "I don’t believe Gene Roddenberry’s decision to make the prime timeline’s Enterprise crew straight was an artistic one, more a necessity of the time."

Either way, I don't think a gay Sulu is going to fill theaters - this was barely a blip on the radar and I don't think many people care outside the geek circles like this one.

 

[JD]

I don't think it matters if Sulu was closeted or not. Frankly, with as heavily as these movies have leaned on the original movies (including lifting scenes wholesale from them), I don't think it's unreasonable for people to assume that this Sulu was straight, as was the original series Sulu.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but these lines your post bugged me a bit.

First, other than Takei's statement and the Mirror Mirror-universe Sulu being a little "hands-on" with Uhura (which was not really Sulu), we have very little to suggest that the TOS Sulu is heterosexual. Since you're making the claim and assumption that it's not unreasonable to think that JJ-Sulu is straight because TOS Sulu was straight, when in reality we have very little to suggest Sulu was straight at at all.

Just how does one assume this Sulu or any Sulu is straight? Does his placement in a military-esque organization and him behaving like a "normal person" mean (in your view) that he's not gay? Are you suggesting that gay people don't look and behave like straight people?

Now, I hope and I don't think it was your intention to make assumptions on a person's sexuality based on appearance... but, those lines of your post just bugged me.

 

[AJTaliesen]

First, other than Takei's statement and the Mirror Mirror-universe Sulu being a little "hands-on" with Uhura (which was not really Sulu), we have very little to suggest that the TOS Sulu is heterosexual. Since you're making the claim and assumption that it's not unreasonable to think that JJ-Sulu is straight because TOS Sulu was straight, when in reality we have very little to suggest Sulu was straight at at all.

He was strait. That's been stated pretty definitively from the creator and the actor.


That doesn't mean he can't be for the new one. I actually thought it was a good idea at first myself. Trek has always pushed social issues and this is a different time than it was in the 60's. It makes sense to have a main character be gay, and given Takei's own activism, I might have gone with his character as well as an obvious choice. But Takei does have a point: the character was crafted a certain way, and people, Takei included, put a lot of effort and thought into crafting him. As an artist, I can easily see why it's more than a little insulting to come along later and say "Yeah well, that never came across." or "your choices weren't integral".


In the end we come back to the problem with everyone going reboot crazy lately. How about instead showing an ounce of creativity and make something new?

No matter what they do on projects like this, they are always either copying what came before, or defiling it.

 

[JD]

He was strait. That's been stated pretty definitively from the creator and the actor.

I don't disagree - my comment was based on the OP's comment about assumptions. Again, in the TOS - in the series, not on statements about it, there is little, if anything to base those assumptions on.

 

[Zombie_61]

The people who produce Star Trek (surely Mr. Pegg couldn't have done this completely on his own) have decided to define the sexual preference of one of it's primary characters as something other than heterosexual. Fine. They've decided it should be Hikaru Sulu. Fine. As long as they treat the character with respect and don't suddenly turn him into a caricatured stereotype, I don't really care one way or another.

But the cynic in me questions the timing. This year marks the 50th anniversary of the premier of the original Star Trek television series, and Paramount has a new Star Trek movie coming out. This should be big news in the entertainment industry. But, so far, Paramount hasn't done much to promote the movie, and very few people really seem to care about it. So two weeks before the movie is scheduled to be released John Cho reveals in an interview that Sulu is gay, in a dedicated same sex relationship, and has a child? The cynic in me would bet Mr. Cho had a meeting with someone at Paramount, and was told, "Listen, we've been unable to generate any real positive buzz about the movie so far, so, if you can, while you're promoting the movie go ahead and let it slip that Sulu is gay and that he and his boyfriend/husband are raising a child. Can you do that for us?"

And if this thread is any indication, it worked. For the last several pages, Sulu's sexuality has been almost the only aspect of the movie that's been discussed. The whole "revelation" seems pretty calculated to me.

 

[firesprite]

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but these lines your post bugged me a bit.

First, other than Takei's statement and the Mirror Mirror-universe Sulu being a little "hands-on" with Uhura (which was not really Sulu), we have very little to suggest that the TOS Sulu is heterosexual. Since you're making the claim and assumption that it's not unreasonable to think that JJ-Sulu is straight because TOS Sulu was straight, when in reality we have very little to suggest Sulu was straight at at all.

Just how does one assume this Sulu or any Sulu is straight? Does his placement in a military-esque organization and him behaving like a "normal person" mean (in your view) that he's not gay? Are you suggesting that gay people don't look and behave like straight people?

Now, I hope and I don't think it was your intention to make assumptions on a person's sexuality based on appearance... but, those lines of your post just bugged me.

Sulu's daughter, Demora, was the helmsman of the Enterprise in Generations.

Granted, given recent developments allowing for the creation of children using only two sperm or two ova, she could have been conceived in a homosexual relationship.

There have also been minor indications of interest in Uhura in the original series.

 

[JD]

Sulu's daughter, Demora, was the helmsman of the Enterprise in Generations.

Granted, given recent developments allowing for the creation of children using only two sperm or two ova, she could have been conceived in a homosexual relationship.

There have also been minor indications of interest in Uhura in the original series.

Sulu and his partner have a child in Star Trek Beyond.