I'm at the stage now where I now have complete blind faith in Marvel. They could announce they've cast Queen Latifah as Mary Jane and I would suspect they'd make it work.
Spider-Man: Homecoming
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
If she is Mary Jane, I also have faith in Marvel, but I don't consider the wrap a reliable source. Did you read the original article? It screams of click-bait "jurnalizm" —Two people who have knowledge (so maybe not even working on it, but have knowledge about it) on the project report that "At least one recent draft of the script has Zendaya's character dropping several clues to her identity as Mary Jane." So someone is speculating about supposed clues dropped in a draft of the script (maybe not even the final draft) that point to her being Mary Jane, not what has been said by the director, or what the character name is in the script. I'm going to wait for a reliable confirmation.
https://www.facebook.com/jgunn/posts/10153548508766157
James Gunn:
"People get upset when something they consider intrinsic to a comic book character changes when adapted for a film. I get this. There are movies I dislike because I think there's a basic misunderstanding of the story or the character when the comic is transferred to film (I still hate how in the first Batman movie the Joker was revealed as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, for instance.)
That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin. When Michael B Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm I didn't understand the uproar. The primary characteristic of Johnny was not, to me, that he was white, or that he had blonde hair, but that he was a fiery, funny, big-mouthed braggart of a hero. I was happy that he was going to be played by one of the finest and most charming young actors out there.
Yesterday, a rumor broke out that the character of Mary Jane was being played by a young black woman, Zendaya, and all hell broke out on the Internet (again). I tweeted that if people find themselves complaining about Mary Jane's ethnicity they have lives that are too good. (For those of you who think this means I'm confirming that Zendaya IS playing MJ, realize that although I've read the Spidey script, and I've met the actress in question, I have no idea what her role is. There's a good chance someone told me at one time or another, but, if so, I can't remember. I'm going to find out when I go into Marvel this afternoon, but I feel free to speak until that time because it's about the concept about a black woman playing Mary Jane, not the actuality or hypothesis of it.)
I got a thousand or so responses to my tweet. Most of them were positive. Some folks disagreed - they thought the character should look like what she looks like in the comics - but were thoughtful. And a handful were flat out racist.
I can't respond to the racists - I'm not ever going to change their minds. But for the thoughtful majority of you out there:
For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.
Whatever the case, if we're going to continue to make movies based on the almost all white heroes and supporting characters from the comics of the last century, we're going to have to get used to them being more reflective of our diverse present world. Perhaps we can be open to the idea that, although someone may not initially match how we personally conceive a character, we can be - and often are - happily surprised."
James Gunn:
"People get upset when something they consider intrinsic to a comic book character changes when adapted for a film. I get this. There are movies I dislike because I think there's a basic misunderstanding of the story or the character when the comic is transferred to film (I still hate how in the first Batman movie the Joker was revealed as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, for instance.)
That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin. When Michael B Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm I didn't understand the uproar. The primary characteristic of Johnny was not, to me, that he was white, or that he had blonde hair, but that he was a fiery, funny, big-mouthed braggart of a hero. I was happy that he was going to be played by one of the finest and most charming young actors out there.
Yesterday, a rumor broke out that the character of Mary Jane was being played by a young black woman, Zendaya, and all hell broke out on the Internet (again). I tweeted that if people find themselves complaining about Mary Jane's ethnicity they have lives that are too good. (For those of you who think this means I'm confirming that Zendaya IS playing MJ, realize that although I've read the Spidey script, and I've met the actress in question, I have no idea what her role is. There's a good chance someone told me at one time or another, but, if so, I can't remember. I'm going to find out when I go into Marvel this afternoon, but I feel free to speak until that time because it's about the concept about a black woman playing Mary Jane, not the actuality or hypothesis of it.)
I got a thousand or so responses to my tweet. Most of them were positive. Some folks disagreed - they thought the character should look like what she looks like in the comics - but were thoughtful. And a handful were flat out racist.
I can't respond to the racists - I'm not ever going to change their minds. But for the thoughtful majority of you out there:
For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.
Whatever the case, if we're going to continue to make movies based on the almost all white heroes and supporting characters from the comics of the last century, we're going to have to get used to them being more reflective of our diverse present world. Perhaps we can be open to the idea that, although someone may not initially match how we personally conceive a character, we can be - and often are - happily surprised."
The quote from Gunn explained why. Did you not read it or not understand it? Or are you one the people he referenced that just can't be reached?
joshvanrad
Sr Member
I haven't personally met anyone who would have a problem.with her as MJ. I'm sure they exist, but it seems like this is being blown out of proportion. Internet media is manufacturing controversy.
I could see gingers getting upset... since when I think Mary Jane, I immediately think, "Red Head"...
Though I'm not a Spider-Man guy, so I could be WAY off on that as well. "SHE WAS BRUNETTE IN THE AMAZING SPIDERMAN!!!" or whatever I could be corrected on.
But anyone who's upset cuz she's not WHITE... I dunno... seems kinda weird and a weird thing to get upset about. James Gunn nailed it... if a comic character is only defined by their skin color, then it's a weak character.
Though I'm not a Spider-Man guy, so I could be WAY off on that as well. "SHE WAS BRUNETTE IN THE AMAZING SPIDERMAN!!!" or whatever I could be corrected on.
But anyone who's upset cuz she's not WHITE... I dunno... seems kinda weird and a weird thing to get upset about. James Gunn nailed it... if a comic character is only defined by their skin color, then it's a weak character.
Father
Sr Member
I guess you could not be reached at my attempt at humor?
But since you asked... I generally question whether it's always as simple as Gunn makes it out to be or if it's more to do with the studios trying to broaden the target audience with as much unnecessary PC integration as they can get away with.
Some of it works, some of it doesn't.
Nick Fury being changed to a black guy in Ultimate Marvel worked.
[While not necessarily comic but] JJ-verse Sulu being gay... why? Totally unnecessary.
For being a relatively unknown character in the Marvel-verse, why didn't they make Ant-Man black? Because it wasn't necessary? Or because the character of Scott Lang was a ex-con/criminal and they didn't want to temp the wrath that they were "stereotyping"?
Why didn't they use Civil War as an opportunity to use the Miles Morales Spider-Man instead of that other, white, Spider-Man?
Like NeoRutty said... when I think MJ, I think Red Head. So for me, the change (if it's even true) comes off more as a PC play / audience grab than anything else.
I agree, in the grand scheme of things, almost any character's race/color shouldn't matter. But then again... do you have Black Santa or White Santa decorating your house for Christmas? Does your church have pictures of Black ***** or White ***** hanging on the walls?
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Father
Sr Member
I had to look up who Zendaya even is.... and when I saw a picture my first thought was "she's black?" followed by "oh she's in that awful show Shake it Up that my kids watch". Ironic, because her partner in that show is Bella Thorne, a red head, that probably wouldn't be a bad choice for MJ.
Side Note: They have these things called wigs and hair dye... change her hair color and most people might not even think much more of it.
So her father is black, mom is white. Does that mean the internet should only be half as mad?
I'm ready to move on. This is already tired.
Side Note: They have these things called wigs and hair dye... change her hair color and most people might not even think much more of it.
So her father is black, mom is white. Does that mean the internet should only be half as mad?
I'm ready to move on. This is already tired.
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If it were anybody else, I would've just thought, "lame joke." and moved on. However I've noticed your posts in some of these threads. Especially your Suicide Squad review before it was edited. Let's just say there was a certain tinge to it. You clearly have a certain point of view and thats fine, but it doesn't mean when its expressed that its immune for being called out on what it is.
George
Master Member
What about someone just wanting the people/suits/details to look 'authentic' like in the comics? This thread already had a few of those reactions concerning the appearance of the new spidey suit.
I consider myself one of those people who prefer authenticity,while at the same time I believe in equal opportunity for all people when it comes to human rights,work,what have you.
I consider myself one of those people who prefer authenticity,while at the same time I believe in equal opportunity for all people when it comes to human rights,work,what have you.
Father
Sr Member
Guilty as charged... I'm a purist.
But I've been making a conscious effort to move beyond that. I don't get my underoos in a wad as much when they don't strictly follow source material. I realize some things don't translate well to film and some creative liberties can be forgiven.
George
Master Member
People make fun of the costumes in the comics (even the people that make the life action movies; I remember a guy laughing at the wings of the original costume in the Captain America featurettes),but they have no trouble exploiting the very same comics for their personal goals and monetary gains.
But if the nemesis is able to put the fear in you,the costume all of the sudden isn't that funny anymore and you will respect your opponent.
Eventhough compromises have to be made to make the transition from comic to life action movie,I think they rely on extremes too much; if the costume for example is too eccentric,they immediately change it to something 'acceptable' and neutral colours,like with the first x-men movies.Yellow/blue/whatever bright colour was now reduced to black,and spandex was now leather,because God forbid the movie would seem 'childish'.Moviemakers these days seem to have a fixation on what they think is reality (and even that is subjective),so much so that we have forgotten what it is to 'Marvel' at superpowers/superheros...
But if the nemesis is able to put the fear in you,the costume all of the sudden isn't that funny anymore and you will respect your opponent.
Eventhough compromises have to be made to make the transition from comic to life action movie,I think they rely on extremes too much; if the costume for example is too eccentric,they immediately change it to something 'acceptable' and neutral colours,like with the first x-men movies.Yellow/blue/whatever bright colour was now reduced to black,and spandex was now leather,because God forbid the movie would seem 'childish'.Moviemakers these days seem to have a fixation on what they think is reality (and even that is subjective),so much so that we have forgotten what it is to 'Marvel' at superpowers/superheros...
Dessa
Sr Member
Last I remember, Mary Jane's heritage isn't Irish, so being super-pale white wouldn't be "accurate." Like others, I didn't know who she was, and when I googled her, I wouldn't've pegged her as "black" if I hadn't've bee told (if anything, her skin tone reminds me more of Hispanic, truth be told). I do get what people are saying with red hair, that's about as iconic for the character as Cap's shield or Thor's hammer. At the same time, MJ's hair (to my knowledge) isn't the same orangey-red as the Weasleys in HP, and I personally love the color of red that only seems to be possible to get in a PoC, so I think her hair died will make her a great MJ, at least in appearance (I haven't seen anything she's in, so I can't speak to her acting abilities).
Apples and oranges in my opinion. In addition to being a funny big-mouthed braggart, it was also integral to the character that he was Sue's brother. Adopted brother is still brother, but it is a different dynamic, especially if they are different races. For me BOTH recent FF incarnations got this dead wrong: I don't remember a single second of film that made me actually buy Chris Evans and Jessica Alba as siblings. They just didn't have that brother sister chemistry. It really is possible for them both to be good actors, and do a good job with their characters and still NOT have the correct chemistry between them to sell the relationship. This is why movies USUALLY take into account who they will be playing opposite when doing the casting.
Anyway...long story short: I LOVE Michael B Jordan's acting, but casting him as Johnny completely changed the dynamic of the character. Maybe with the right script the new dynamic might have actually been even better than the original, but that doesn't change the fact that it is different.
For Mary Jane...maybe I just didn't read enough of the comics, but I don't see how her being black really changes anything fundamental about her character or her relationship to other characters. As far as I know, she's just supposed to be fun, attractive, and popular. Skin color irrelevant. I also haven't seen any "outrage". I'm sure it's there, but it's not exactly a tidal wave if you have to go looking for it.
