So I have been recast!!!

[Zlurpo]

Someone really needs to create a substance that resists recasting.

That's why a lot of busts are now only sold as soft silicone castings, they're much harder to duplicate. But that doesn't work for all builds, obviously.

 

[Lflank]

The only company I know of that actively pursues copyright infringement on all fronts is Disney.[/IMG]

That would be the "Disney" that just bought the Star Wars franchise, right . . . ?

 

[Drac]

That would be the "Disney" that just bought the Star Wars franchise, right . . . ?

Hmmmm wonders if there will be future issues on Starwars stuff :facepalm

 

[clayslinger]

I don't have to prove it would be easy to make, because there are so many out there right now. A quick search would find tons of them.

I'm not even saying recasting is ok. I'm just saying that your making a copy of a movie prop to begin with. Its not your own work to get bent out of shape about. I'm sure the Judge Dredd franchise is not happy about you making and selling their stuff either.

I think you can make all the prop replicas you want, but selling them is another issue. You shouldnt be selling something that is not yours. So someone recasting your stuff is just karma for selling someone elses design to begin with.

Also, I'm not going to dig through the archives to revive some recasting debates when this one is right here. If you want to reference something, put a link to it, don't just say search for it. Maybe you never tried searching this forum, cause its a crazy pain and turns up a large amount of junk.

Well between your screen name and your clear karma stance on getting ripped off since you shouldn't have made it if it's not your design, is going to serve you well on a REPLICA PROP MESSAGE BOARD!

YEESH!

Do you make anything? Why are you here?
We know what you won't do. Look for something yourself.

Some pieces that interest some people do not have the interest needed to warrant a license. They do not have a broad appeal or are too expensive for the general public.

So you think if I sculpt it from scratch but it looks so much like the original, I should just be OK with someone like you making a copy because it looks just like the original prop that I don't own the design of?
Interesting.....

And by the way, when you do good work, license or no license, or as long as you are not making and selling large numbers publicly in direct competition with a license holder and it doesn't harm the brand, the studios know it's in their best interest to let you build and support the brand for free.

Chuck...

 

[Sourdoh]

This issue crops up in most hobbies. Every hobby has individuals who, for one reason or another, feel compelled to steal the work of artists and call it their own ... and sell it for a profit, usually! The way to get rid of them is to expose their perfidy and make sure no one buys from them! Unfortunately these creeps will never be brought to heel by this method because people will always buy from them to save a few bucks on a purchase! These same buyers might decry the idea of recasting, but they still buy, thus putting them in the same category of the loathsome scum who originally stole the artistic or intellectual property. It is a vicious circle that is difficult to break.

 

[The Mad Professor]

That would be the "Disney" that just bought the Star Wars franchise, right . . . ?

Hmmmm wonders if there will be future issues on Starwars stuff :facepalm

As I understand it, Disney will adopt a hands-off approach to copyright issues, just as they did with Marvel. Disney only goes after specifically Disney products, like Mickey and Goofy.

 

[Lflank]

As I understand it, Disney will adopt a hands-off approach to copyright issues, just as they did with Marvel. Disney only goes after specifically Disney products, like Mickey and Goofy.

I certainly hope you are right. I don't sell any Star Wars props, but I do make fan films. And I remember how Paramount used to treat Star Trek fan-film makers . . . . . . .

 

[The Mad Professor]

I certainly hope you are right. I don't sell any Star Wars props, but I do make fan films. And I remember how Paramount used to treat Star Trek fan-film makers . . . . . . .

Well, think about it.

Disney, as of now, owns Lucasfilms, Marvel Comics, and The Muppets. In the years that they have owned Marvel Comics, not once has Disney come down on people who reproduce Iron Man armors, Mjolnir, Captain America's shield, or anything else. I doubt they'll try it with Star Wars.

To further prevent that, there is the 501st, the Rebel Legion, and the Mandalorian Mercs, all of whom perform for free in their spare time and raise thousands of dollars for charity, all of it unlicensed by Lucas. Furthermore, Star Wars themed items are amongst the most popular (if not THE most popular) items sold. Star Wars weekends at theme parks are notoriously busy and are huge moneymakers.

If Disney puts the kibosh on all that, they're shooting themselves in the proverbial foot.

 

[Astrokid248]

Re: Re: So I have been recast!!!

(Preface. I'm not a recaster or even a caster. I've never even bought any castings, beyond some rocket models from Real Space because I utterly dig the look of the DynaSoar on top a Titan III rocket)

[rant regret="probably_deep"]

I try really hard to stay out of recaster threads (I use my thread blocking tool on most all), mostly because of the swift "judge, jury and executioner" style, but also because I think people who freak out about it are just not using their marketing heads.

Here's the thing about recasting: you can't stop it.

No end of posting about how bad it is, or they are, or who's a rumored recaster will make it go away.

But you can influence the community and the market in a positive way so that when people are looking for the item, they find you and not some eBay knockoff.

How?

• Do what you can so that when you Google the item, your version shows up towards the top of a Google search, and not a page of eBay sales listings. If that is what shows up, then there is a demand for what you made, but you are failing to reach your perspective buyers.
• Give away free PDFs of plans for those so-inclinded to build their own, or fantasize about it. Also to show that yes, you did do your research on this before you made it.
• Give away lots of other stuff that relates to the myth and legend of the prop. Blade Runner WorldCon Blaster is a GREAT example of this kind of peripheral content that is quite coo.
• Post tutorials on how you made it - precisely how you did it. This gets people to learn about your product, but also how you made it. This boosts your credibility and the credibility of your product.
• In general do everything you can to give away your methods, but definitely not give away your product.
• If you are selling it, don't sell it cheap. Not over priced, just not cheap.
• Don't just sell a casting, sell an experience. Put it in a really nice box so that getting the box is part of the thrill. Seeing the box is part of it. Opening the box is part of it. Reading the faux realistic instruction manual (as if it was a real prop) is part of it.
• If you aren't selling it and it is being recast, there is a consumer need you are failing to address - so get on it!

I think it's important to know you are not selling just a casting - you are selling your research, your craftsmanship, your talent and more. You are selling your passion. The recaster is selling just a lump of plastic. Customers get this. This is what gets a customer to buy yours and not the recast.

But if the only difference between yours and the recasters is that theirs is cheaper (and a bit rougher), then you are indeed just selling a slightly higher quality lump of plastic and no more. And of course buyers will buy the recast, because honestly they don't care that much about you. They want that lump of plastic, and will buy the cheap one because they know that's all they are buying.

How not to be a lump of plastic? Make it so people greatly appreciate everything they receive if they buy your version. You want want them to come on here and post unboxing pictures of the product, not because it was just good casting, etc. but because it came in a nice box, had really neat themed instructions, and they were thrilled when they opened it.

Educate people. Turn the masses into affecionados of this prop (and your rendition of it), so when they decide to buy one, they will come to you.

This is not about having an ego or feeling your work is god-like. It is about making a good product that doesn't suck. A good product where people trust you to be the one who makes it well.

Even if someone buys a recast, I would think that it sucks for them far more than it sucks for you. They got crap, and you know it. And if they ever see yours, they will know it too.

Position yourself as well as your product. Be generous and the trusted authority on the prop. Don't just sell a lump of plastic. Become the genuine item.
[/rant]

This is really big, I think. As someone who is slowly joining the world of prop making, I can't tell you enough how much influence the prop makers who already do this have already had on me. When I see Volpin or Punished Props toss pictures up on Facebook, I want to support them. I want to give them as much money as I possibly can just so I can keep seeing amazing pictures. I could purchase a ****ty recast off Ebay, sure, but then I wouldn't be helping fev! make more awesome AC hidden blades. So thank you, Holtt, for finally pointing out the obvious.

I still think we can do these threads and shut the recasters down though. Nothing wrong with punishing them as we find them.

 

[Cenobyte]

Someone really needs to create a substance that resists recasting.

I thought I had read somewhere that adding sulphur? (I could be completely wrong on the material) to the item will make silicone stick to the item not allowing it to be molded.

I remember something added to an item would do that basically tearing a mold trying to get the item out making it useless.

 

[Lflank]

Well, think about it.

Disney, as of now, owns Lucasfilms, Marvel Comics, and The Muppets. In the years that they have owned Marvel Comics, not once has Disney come down on people who reproduce Iron Man armors, Mjolnir, Captain America's shield, or anything else. I doubt they'll try it with Star Wars.

To further prevent that, there is the 501st, the Rebel Legion, and the Mandalorian Mercs, all of whom perform for free in their spare time and raise thousands of dollars for charity, all of it unlicensed by Lucas. Furthermore, Star Wars themed items are amongst the most popular (if not THE most popular) items sold. Star Wars weekends at theme parks are notoriously busy and are huge moneymakers.

If Disney puts the kibosh on all that, they're shooting themselves in the proverbial foot.

Sadly, all that was true also in the case of Paramount and Star Trek. And they still treated their own fans as if they were thieves and enemies.

Disney has sued churches and day care centers for using Mickey Mouse images on the walls, which brought them a boatload of bad publicity--which didn't stop them from doing it again. I don't think they have compunction at all about "shooting themselves in the proverbial foot" . . . .

 

[StickyFingers]

So if you copied the mona lisa, and someone else painted it off of yours, does that mean that they are stealing your work too?

Stickyfingers is a reference to glue from making stuff. I don't have to prove or justify anything to some internet troll. Its pretty lame to copy someone else's stuff, start selling it, and then complain about someone copying you and doing the same thing.

What if someone bought that badge off ebay and recast it. Would he then be stealing from the ebay guy, the rpf guy, or the judge dredd franchise? Who would own it then... oooooooo... mind blown!

 

[The Mad Professor]

@lflank- Yes, but only when specific Disney characters are involved do they go lawyer-crazy. If it's not specifically Disney, they leave it alone.

@stickyfingers - You are grasping at straws trying to continue a debate that has already been resolved. Let it go.

 

[robbytherobot]

Luke: ...is recasting better?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

 

[Lflank]

Yes, but only when specific Disney characters are involved do they go lawyer-crazy. If it's not specifically Disney, they leave it alone.

Well, just as in the realm of replica props, the fact that Disney lets us get away with it for now, doesn't mean they can't change their minds tomorrow and shut us all down.

If Disney snaps their finger, all my fan films will be gone from YouTube tomorrow, with the notice "Removed due to copyright restrictions". And there's nothing I, you, or the 501st can do about it. Except hope they don't ever decide to do it.

Again, the example of Paramount and Star Trek keeps sticking in my brain. . .

 

[The Mad Professor]

I think that while Disney owns Lucasfilm, they don't run it, leaving all corporate and legal decisions to the head of Lucasfilm.

 

[TazMan2000]

I don't have to prove it would be easy to make, because there are so many out there right now. A quick search would find tons of them.

I'm not even saying recasting is ok. I'm just saying that your making a copy of a movie prop to begin with. Its not your own work to get bent out of shape about. I'm sure the Judge Dredd franchise is not happy about you making and selling their stuff either.

I think you can make all the prop replicas you want, but selling them is another issue. You shouldnt be selling something that is not yours. So someone recasting your stuff is just karma for selling someone elses design to begin with.

Also, I'm not going to dig through the archives to revive some recasting debates when this one is right here. If you want to reference something, put a link to it, don't just say search for it. Maybe you never tried searching this forum, cause its a crazy pain and turns up a large amount of junk.

If you took the actual prop, made a mold then sold the castings, I would think that you would be right. However, if you made a facsimile of the actual prop using the exact same techniques and parts as the original, and then molded and sold the castings yourself it would be a piece of art. Yes, I guess that does fall into a grey area, especially if you are profitting from it.
However this situation, if proven, is like a guy buying a music CD, copying the music onto his hard drive, burning several CDs and selling the CDs telling everyone that he is doing the lead vocals.

TazMan2000

 

[Strickler]

I think this discussion has been beat to death enough. This was more of a warning than hey let's start this argument again.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

So if you copied the mona lisa, and someone else painted it off of yours, does that mean that they are stealing your work too?

Stickyfingers is a reference to glue from making stuff. I don't have to prove or justify anything to some internet troll. Its pretty lame to copy someone else's stuff, start selling it, and then complain about someone copying you and doing the same thing.

What if someone bought that badge off ebay and recast it. Would he then be stealing from the ebay guy, the rpf guy, or the judge dredd franchise? Who would own it then... oooooooo... mind blown!

So...a member with less than 30 posts is calling another member, with over 350 posts, an 'internet troll'?

As Jubal Early said...That seem right to you?

Make your point, as hypothetical as it is, & drop it. Please don't insult other members as a grab at getting in a dig. It doesn't contribute & makes you seem very petty & juvenile.

 

[Alan Castillo]

So someone recasting your stuff is just karma for selling someone elses design to begin with.

While you are entitled to your opinion, rest assured that your statement is not shared by the vast majority of this board.

Also, I'm not going to dig through the archives to revive some recasting debates when this one is right here. If you want to reference something, put a link to it, don't just say search for it. Maybe you never tried searching this forum, cause its a crazy pain and turns up a large amount of junk.

Really :confused

- Go to advance seach
- Type 'recasting' in the box
- Use 'search titles only' from the drop-down menu right underneath that.

80% of the resultant 48 hits are spot on to this topic.

Secondly, and although I appreciate that you didn't start this thread, you may wish to pick up a few pointers from here.