Round2 Acquires Star Wars License

I always assumed entry into a TIE was from the upper hatch, not through the rear where the engines were mounted. Recent Mandolarian episode has just that depicted, with the TIEs hanging from ceiling gantries that the pilots use for access. That is how I understood it worked, in which case access 'around' the seat would be moot. Rearward 'direct' vision would also be unnecessary for a pilot in a full helmet and spacesuit, which would have prevented 'looking aft'. More likely would be a helmet vision system providing that rear view via an internal HUD...

The view port in the rear wall makes little practical sense except for 'movie effect' of a shifting star field background to show "motion". Otherwise, it is useless in a "real world" interpretation unless the helmet itself has a aft-facing camera (hmmm! Maybe...)
;^)
 
Steve Gawley compromised people wanting a top hatch and a rear hatch by putting both on. The engines are mounted to the sides of the rear hatch and don't interfere with its operation.

I've seen lots of depictions over the years of the top hatch being used, but it's awkward as hell when thought about. It's not like slipping directly into a cockpit seat. It's a five-foot drop with no ladder.

And the upper and rear windows don't make much sense any way you look at it, except to show the audience motion, as you say. Honestly, none of the ships in Star Wars hold up under scrutiny. It Looks Cool™ drives a lot.
 
On another note, looking at the AMT kit #A1299 (latest resissue with the revised "wings"), I compared the proportional dims to those I have mapped on an Icons TIE fighter model, regarded as one of the better Studio Scale depictions (from what I'm told, I'm no expert and ready to be corrected...), I found the following:
ICON TIE: Wing height/ wing width = 1.240...
ICON TIE: Wing height/span (measured between panel edges) = 1.36
AMT TIE: Wing h/Wing w = 1.23 (0.8 % delta)
AMT TIE: Wing h/span = 1.306 (4% delta)

So it appears AMT ne' R2 did decent research on their revised "wing" panels, the span is off to a greater degree by this comparison, but not enough for worry and if I were, I could sand a 1/32 thickness from each end of the support arms and likely get really close... either way, works for me!

Now if I could only find something reliably showing the TIE-I wings....!
;^P

R/ Robert
 
If you're referring to the revised wing panels on the latest release of the smaller AMT TIE, those were copied from the new 1/32 kit that I designed. They should be a near exact match to the ones on the filming models. I had some *very* good reference when I was making the patterns for the new 1/32 kit. :)
 
I don't want to throw a spanner in the works regarding the rear window, but in season two of the Mandalorian, the Tie's on Moff Gideon's cruiser do seem to have transparent rear windows. You can see inside the tie from behind.
 
rbeach84, thanks for doing that checking. More data points is always good. The early days of Icons and Master Replicas I am very fuzzy on. I don't know what all their sources or research were. Currently, I'd trust star-art's methods and results over theirs. I'm pleased what you found about the Round 2 AMT re-pops. I need to get one now. :)
Now if I could only find something reliably showing the TIE-I wings....!
What are you looking for there, exactly?

If you're referring to the revised wing panels on the latest release of the smaller AMT TIE, those were copied from the new 1/32 kit that I designed. They should be a near exact match to the ones on the filming models. I had some *very* good reference when I was making the patterns for the new 1/32 kit. :)
Brilliant, sir. :)

...What are you going to do next...?
 
I don't want to throw a spanner in the works regarding the rear window, but in season two of the Mandalorian, the Tie's on Moff Gideon's cruiser do seem to have transparent rear windows. You can see inside the tie from behind.
Yeah, Rebels, Rogue One, and Mandalorian have been doing... interesting things with familiar ships... >_>
 
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J
 
Jaitea, I mean... well... yes. We've known about that for ages. I prefer the cockpit view, so I've rotated the windows on all my models. It also matches the orientation on the ROTS Jedi starfighter foot windows. I don't know what to say about the blatant lack of window-obscuring console, though...
 
Yeah, Rebels, Rogue One, and Mandalorian have been doing... interesting things with familiar ships... >_>
Oh for sure! I guess that's what happens when you can build far more detailed CG models!

I am doing all the major starfighters in 1/32 scale but I build mine as if they were functional ships, so a rear window on the Tie would make sense to me. I guess each to their own really.
 
I don't think a TIE pilot could see their wingmen or an attacker from the sides, so having a rear window seems unnecessary if they have some other method of knowing what is at their sides.
 
Aye, the rear window is truly something without a rationale for many reasons, so must chalk it up to 'artistry'.
Reasons not to have a rear window in a TIE Fighter:
1) Pilot cannot effectively look out of the window as they are wearing a helmet and a space suit (unless they are actually not "human" and are a species that can rotate their heads like an owl can...) Best he might do is turn to the side. Perhaps the triangular object hanging from the front viewport is a *rear view mirror*!(?)
2) Just another 'weak spot' in what should be a reinforced pressure hull.
3) Assisted rear view using an optical sensor would not require a "window".
4) Light coming in from the rear window would tend to be distracting and cast some moving shadow into the cockpit.

Reasons to have a rear window:
1) Gives the movie audience a way to get motion 'cues' from a spinning star-field.

Only 'logical' in-'verse rationale I could come up with is, the window might allow for a manual docking approach (backwards), with a pilot's seat that can rotate 180 degrees, along with the manuevering controls...a bit of a stretch but possible if we assume the TIE has some form of manuevering jets (like a real spacecraft does...) Given the way it moves on screen, I'd say manuevering jets *are* likely, though.

Just occurred to me, perhaps the 'rear window' is not a window at all but a *sensor* window, so the 'see-though' we encounter in the SW could be considered a production oversight. After all, that set has the 'window' in a place that implies it is actually a display screen, not the actual viewport...

Trouble is, the clear-view (aka 'direct view) features of a TIE fighter don't make any real world sense in any case. It comes from the desire to have something that visually supports the perception of 'WWII fighter dogfighting' action that Lucas wanted in the movie. Hence, we have manned gun turrets and cockpits with large areas of "glass". Certainly, Lucas wasn't thinking of anything like the current technology of fully intergrated helmet displays. In reality, space fighters are likely to have completely artificial sensors presenting flight data to the pilots and computers in the middle of everything because the velocities and environment would generally be untenable for a pilot acting like he was in an aeroplane... but then, how would a TIE - having a completely non-aerdynamic shape - even go into an atmosphere unless it uses force fields to 'project' an aerodynamic "shape" to an atmosphere? Because this Star Wars we're talking about, not "The Expanse" or even B-5, where there is at least a nod to actual physics.

And lets not even get started on having 'bombers' in space...

Perhaps our "elephant" should more appropriately be pink, have wings, a tutu and a tiara while drinking rum? ;^D

Happily bonkers, your servant, Robert
 
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Jaitea, Yeah... That elephant is why I've settled into mostly two approaches when I build a sci-fi kit. The first is an idealized approach where I use artistic license to create the fictional ship as if it were a real ship -- like on my 1/350 TOS Enterprise I added some raised panels on the hull like on the Remastered CG-E rather than keep the hull perfectly smooth like on the 11-footer. I embrace the "wrongness" of the build. The second is the studio model replica approach making a copy of studio model with all it's flaws and mechanical requirements, like on my PG Falcon with the 5-footer cockpit and gunports. I embrace the "rightness" of the studio model. Trying to reconcile multiple and different studio models to live action sets and now CG versions makes me feel like a dog chasing its own tail. :lol:
 
Jaitea, Yeah... That elephant is why I've settled into mostly two approaches when I build a sci-fi kit. The first is an idealized approach where I use artistic license to create the fictional ship as if it were a real ship -- like on my 1/350 TOS Enterprise I added some raised panels on the hull like on the Remastered CG-E rather than keep the hull perfectly smooth like on the 11-footer. I embrace the "wrongness" of the build. The second is the studio model replica approach making a copy of studio model with all it's flaws and mechanical requirements, like on my PG Falcon with the 5-footer cockpit and gunports. I embrace the "rightness" of the studio model. Trying to reconcile multiple and different studio models to live action sets and now CG versions makes me feel like a dog chasing its own tail. :lol:
Exactly my attitude

J
 
Jaitea, Yeah... That elephant is why I've settled into mostly two approaches when I build a sci-fi kit. The first is an idealized approach where I use artistic license to create the fictional ship as if it were a real ship -- like on my 1/350 TOS Enterprise I added some raised panels on the hull like on the Remastered CG-E rather than keep the hull perfectly smooth like on the 11-footer. I embrace the "wrongness" of the build. The second is the studio model replica approach making a copy of studio model with all it's flaws and mechanical requirements, like on my PG Falcon with the 5-footer cockpit and gunports. I embrace the "rightness" of the studio model. Trying to reconcile multiple and different studio models to live action sets and now CG versions makes me feel like a dog chasing its own tail.

The first way is my approach too. I much prefer to build as if it were a real ship, and fit it into the universe. More an amalgam of the various versions. I also like to take into account the 'history' of the people designing, building, and using it. The Rebel craft are often scavanged, held together with duct tape ans string and heavily used, but well looked after. The Imperials are cleaner, ready for their officer to inspect, and made to all look identical.
 
Trouble is, the clear-view (aka 'direct view) features of a TIE fighter don't make any real world sense in any case. It comes from the desire to have something that visually supports the perception of 'WWII fighter dogfighting' action that Lucas wanted in the movie. Hence, we have manned gun turrets and cockpits with large areas of "glass". Certainly, Lucas wasn't thinking of anything like the current technology of fully intergrated helmet displays. In reality, space fighters are likely to have completely artificial sensors presenting flight data to the pilots and computers in the middle of everything because the velocities and environment would generally be untenable for a pilot acting like he was in an aeroplane... but then, how would a TIE - having a completely non-aerdynamic shape - even go into an atmosphere unless it uses force fields to 'project' an aerodynamic "shape" to an atmosphere? Because this Star Wars we're talking about, not "The Expanse" or even B-5, where there is at least a nod to actual physics.
Oh, all of that, yes. Someone did a virtual wind-tunnel test of the various ships a few years back and all of the fighters have horrible aerodynamics. The sleekest of them -- the A-Wing -- was still a draggy brick compared the benchmark they were being compared against, the F-4. They've gotta have some exotic GFFA tech to brute-force aerodynamics in ways we can only speculate. All we know is what we see.

If I were designing a TIE from that starting place... The cockpit might still be a ball (spheres have good structural integrity), but it might also be an egg shape (same), to reduce wasted space. Small end front, probably a little nose-down. G-forces aren't a consideration -- Star Wars showed us they have powerful artificial gravity and finely-nuanced control over it. What would the best pilot posture be? Standing, reclining, sitting? If a ball, I'd go with an upper-rear-quadrant hatch with the pilot leaning into something sort of like a cross between a motorcycle saddle and a massage chair -- fully supportive and leaving all four hands and feet free to control the craft. If egg-shaped, sitting/reclining and a lot like the ROTS Jedi fighters' cockpits.

But, in all cases, mostly blank hull on the outside with embedded sensors everywhere (damage can take out a cluster without blinding the pilot). All sensor data fed to the pilot's VRD. They basically become the fighter. All they see is the space around them and any enemy craft. Visual cues for the audience would be a bit like we got in Iron Man for how Tony experienced being in the suit. I figure there'd need to be some small viewports to act as backup in the event of sensor or power failure, or piloting by an unhelmeted individual.

That last gave me a secondary notion that would possibly be more dramatic for the audience: Surround screens in the cockpit interior effectively wallpapering the pilot's field of view with triangular monitors showing all of their surroundings minus the obstructions of the ship itself. A two-second shot of Vader or another pilot starting up and the screens coming live would get across what they are. And, for filming purposes, as in Star Wars, they could all be bluescreen material.

And for wings... Well, I think they maybe shoulda looked like Interceptors from the get-go. Unf. Also, visual continuity with Vader's ship. Bonus points if they start flat or at a slight down-angle (TIE Striker, Eta-2 Actis), but then they also get to deploy S-foils for combat, and they open and snap around to that familiar bent-wing configuration. (And before saying that's a lot of moving parts, those are also apparently super-reliable in the GFFA -- see the Lambda shuttle and, most notably, the V-19 fighter.)
 
I remember in my early teens having the MPC TIE Interceptor in 1983, and the cockpit back hatch opened and it had a window too.

Does anyone remember this too as this model kit memory has now faded into legend, what with the original MPC model kit from 1983 being very rare to find.
 
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