ROGUE ONE Jyn Erso - open build thread!

I have a new theory. The gap has been bugging me. There is no logical reason to just have a random gap right where several seams should meet. Plus, it seems to be in line with the seam in this photo.
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What if the left flap collar thing is loose, or partially loose and actually snaps, velcros, whatevers into place? It would also solve the having to be really careful when slipping it on over your head problem by giving the neckline a little more room. Instead of having an additional right collar piece, what if it continues underneath and it part of the left side of the body. (So bib flap sitting on top along the bottom, but also shawl collar-ish construction along the side.)

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I like the theory. It would definitely make it easier to get on and off. I'm not sure if the flap would look stitched down in the photos though if it was only snapped or velcroed into place.

There are the photos that make it look stitched down to me:

Screen Shot 2016-10-22 at 3.39.38 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-10-22 at 3.39.33 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-10-22 at 3.39.27 PM.png

And when she's running or doing action scenes, I think it would gap more if it wasn't sewn down:

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What do you think?
 

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@CarpElgin, On your latest draft I believe at the neckline, the lower (right-side) layer should have a similar curve as the left hand side so if the flap is up they cross at the same height at center front. Your design may be that way but the illustration seems to have the lower layer neckline dropping too low.

The lowered under (right) neckline is pretty much exactly the same for a version or two. It should match the angle of the left side when the flap is folded down. (Since there is no evidence that that side crosses over and is folded down. If it was higher they wouldn't meet at the center front.)

I like the theory. It would definitely make it easier to get on and off. I'm not sure if the flap would look stitched down in the photos though if it was only snapped or velcroed into place.

There are the photos that make it look stitched down to me:

View attachment 675840View attachment 675839View attachment 675838

And when she's running or doing action scenes, I think it would gap more if it wasn't sewn down:

View attachment 675847

What do you think?

It definitely looks sewn down on those running ones. Argh. Maybe the bottom seam is open an inch or so (even an inch would make a difference on a big head) and what we're seeing is top stitching that doesn't go all the way through to the base layer (just on the flap)? Why not have them meet? Is it just me that is confused and frustrated by that? If I could just figure out a reason for it, I could deal with how off it looks.
 
The lowered under (right) neckline is pretty much exactly the same for a version or two. It should match the angle of the left side when the flap is folded down. (Since there is no evidence that that side crosses over and is folded down. If it was higher they wouldn't meet at the center front.)



It definitely looks sewn down on those running ones. Argh. Maybe the bottom seam is open an inch or so (even an inch would make a difference on a big head) and what we're seeing is top stitching that doesn't go all the way through to the base layer (just on the flap)? Why not have them meet? Is it just me that is confused and frustrated by that? If I could just figure out a reason for it, I could deal with how off it looks.

Do you know where the photo is that that shows the gap between the vertical top stitched seam on the left (facing the shirt) and the bottom corner of the folded over flap? I'm still kind of confused about why people are thinking it doesn't meet in the corner anymore. That is the theory right? Or am I misunderstanding it?
 
And looking at that image again, I see a slight shadowed fold about an inch or so from the edge. You think it might be sewn to there, with a snap or something keeping the last bit down?
 
I would guess that if the collar comes open anywhere it would be in back where it would be hidden. To me, on screen it looks loose enough to fit over her head though. I wish I could find any reference to the vertical seam on any other version of the shirt besides the one on the display outfit setup, I think it's weird we can only see it on that particular shirt. The different versions of the holster belt looking quite different in wear pattern and color makes me wonder if that shirt is different enough to omit that seam, especially since the disney costume version does. It's weird.
jynerso.jpgstar-wars-rogue-one-costumes-3.jpg
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Here's some bonus sleeve seam photos.
 
As we continue to uncovered the truth about the blouse design, I have another question. Is it possible that the vertical seam we see on the right-hand side in the following photo

FrontSeam2.png

is the right SIDE seam which has been twisted to the front when dressing the mannequin? There are some wrinkles at the waist line which clearly show the blouse has been twisted off the vertical. There are also some "streaks' down the front which at first glance would indicate the blouse is NOT twisted enough to move the side seam over far enough, but if the streaks are not from the fabric but instead artifacts of the lighting, could this be a possibility? Felicity's waist is probably not large and the distance involved would probably be a couple of inches.
 
What are our best guesses on the width of her belt? 2"?

To determine their widths I compared the widths of the vest waistband, jacket waistband, pants waistband and belt. In my analysis I found the vest and jacket to be the same, the belt wider, and the pants the widest. The values I have been using are 50 mm for the vest and jacket, 57 mm for the belt and 85 mm for the pants, or appoximately 2", 2.25" and 3.375. But this comes from the photos, some people may be scaling them to their own proportions.
 
More information on Jyn's belt for those interested in making their own version.

Here are my observations of Jyn’s Belt. There are still some unknowns which prevent the creation of a screen accurate rig, but enough is known to get started and some have already completed their first versions. This is for those looking for a starting point.

The complete rig is comprised of the Belt, Holster, Holster Strap, Leg Strap and Securing Strap. The holster and securing strap are obviously sized to fit a specific weapon which by consensus is a modified Luger P08 Naval. Without access to photos of the rear of the holster, the relative layout, lengths and methods of attachment of the three straps are unknown. By the same token the craftsman has flexibility in their design as these details are not likely to be seen. I will provide my observations on the holster in a separate post. The belt, holster strap and leg strap (which I provided in an earlier post) will have some variation to fit the wearer. Just as costumers have varied the sizes of items such as Jedi belts to match the wearer, the same may be important with this item. According to the prereleases, Felicity Jones is 5’3” tall so the following sizes, taken from existing photos, are based on this character.

The “basic” width of the belt appears to be 2 1/4 inches. In the photos the width of the belt is greater than the width of the vest and battle jacket waistbands. Those waistbands are each 50 mm or 2 inches. The belt has a closure at the left hip. It is also decorated with a set of rivets, a set of four (2 over 2) at the right front, and set of four (2 over 2, Jedi belt fashion) in the back. The holster is attached via a holster strap at the right-hip. The holster strap is also attached with rivets. There are a total of 10 rivets, which seems to have heads which are 9/16”, 14 mm or size 22 ligne. This size of rivet seems to be rare, at least in the United States. However sizes which are 1/16” smaller, at 1/2”(lignee 20) or 1/16 “bigger, 5/8” (ligne 24) are both readily available. This may mean my measurements are slightly off. It also means it is easy to vary the belt dimensions and still maintain the proper proportions.

There is subtle point to the belt which a maker may or may not wish to incorporate. Most belts are straight straps of leather. However as the width increases and the body type of the wearer become more curvaceous, such as Ms. Jones, having a more tailored belt can provide a more comfortable fit. The front of the body may be mostly vertical and this portion of the belt can indeed be straight. However the sides and back of the body tend to flare from the waist toward the hips. Tailored garments provide for this flare with a curved, contoured waistband (which I am also incorporating into the even wider pant waistband). To maintain the same visual appearance of the belt as it flares also requires a slight increase in width in the curved sections. (This is also consistent with the photographic evidence as in the curved section between the side rivets the width measures as 2 3/8 inches.)

This bow or curve allows the bottom of the belt to have an effective length which is longer than the top of the belt. This makes the belt fit the slope between the waist and the hips. (The geometrically minded can research conic sections for more information.) The amount of curvature will be very dependent on the wearer so making your own pattern out of heavy brown (Kraft) paper or light cardboard to simulate the stiffness of belt leather will be helpful.

Most belts are straight cut to reduce waste. Anyone looking to produce a completed rig with a curved belt might want to look at purchasing a vegetable-tanned, double shoulder piece of leather. This leather is often sold by the piece instead of by the square foot and so may be less expensive. The shoulder is not the best cut of leather but is still very serviceable for belts and holsters and usually in the 8-9 ounce (or 8-9/64”) range. The double shoulder has the advantage of often being able to cut the full length of the belt and the natural relationship of the animal’s neck and shoulder reflect the curve you want in the belt with a minimum of waste. Two shoulders I currently have would each allow up to a 48 to-50” long belt to be cut with a shallow or deep curve with very little waste at the neck. If an even longer belt is needed your belt pattern could be moved further down the shoulder. If you need to do this you may also want to position any or all of your other strap pattern pieces to the inside of the curve again to reduce waste. Cutting the belt ”just long enough” might prevent having enough usable leather inside the curve to cut another element of the rig.
 
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As the person who was with SpectreSeven taking Comic Con photos, I have to say that I am confident that is not the side seam. The grain of the fabric is not far off the vertical/horizontal which it would be if it were twisted. Also, the seam was visible for about 8 inches. It would be physically impossible to suddenly twist out of view and shoot over to the armpit where the seam ends. If you were to draw a line from the vertical line up and the collar flap where it would end, they would meet at the yoke line.
 
In the Fathead photo, I think what other people are seeing as the end of the bib I'm seeing as a funny little fold from no one smoothing it out before taking the picture. I don't think we can actually see where the bib ends and meets the yoke, and that it continues past the line of sight under her jacket, marked in red on the photo below. then it would match up with the corner of the yoke. The vertical seam looks like it might be that dark line just under the edge of the jacket (marked in blue on the photo below). It's hard to tell for sure if that's the vertical seam though without a higher resolution photo.


jyn.png


I do agree with Jakkujunker that there's a vertical line there and not just a twisted side seam, because we could see it going up about pretty far on the mannequin. To add to what she said, the Jyn mannequin was much larger than Felicity Jones, and fairly close in width to the male mannequins, making it that much harder to the side seam to twist so far around.

I think that since some of the toys have the vertical seam, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it probably is there. It's just hard to see when it's tucked under the jacket and vest in photos.

In terms of the shirt fitting over someone's head, we've made about the shirt once and then did another 4 mockups or so while working on version two, and I've never had trouble getting it over my head. And my head is pretty big. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
 

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There is subtle point to the belt which a maker may or may not wish to incorporate. Most belts are straight straps of leather. However as the width increases and the body type of the wearer become more curvaceous, such as Ms. Jones, having a more tailored belt can provide a more comfortable fit.

I second this, and it's true for people like me who are stick straight with no curves too. My belt version 1 is a straight piece of leather and it does not stay up. I have to pin it to my shirt or vest to keep it in place. I'm still waiting to figure out how it attaches on the hip (we never did figure that out, right?) before remaking it, but I'm definitely doing a curved version next time.
 
@Jakkujunker and @spectreseven thank you again for your eyewitness observations and reports. I also mocked up the Fathead full figure photo. I tried to keep my lines outside of the landmarks I see on the photo so my lower red line is to the right of what I see as the right edge of the flat fell seam and the lower blue line is to the left of the flat fell seam. The upper blue line is to the left of what I original saw as the inside of the jacket resting on the bust. If it happens that the blouse seam line and the inside lie of the jacket approximately coincide then I can see it as the line as spectreseven. I added the green line as a possible connection. This part of the seam would not appear as it first goes into shadow at the bottom and is then covered by the vest and jacket to the top of that line. You can also see why I was wondering if the end point of the green segment was under the armscye.
View attachment Front Seams.pdf
 
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Re: the opening of the shirt collar: I don't think Jyn's would need to open as long as it was properly sized, unless you have a very large head. There should be plenty of room.


Re: the curve in the belt: sometimes it's amazing how curves can make things look straighter on curvy people. I once made a female version of a Napoleonic-era British Rifles cross belt (google "Sean Bean Richard Sharpe" - it's the belt that goes across the chest with the whistle and chain attached). The real ones have just a slight arc to them, but since I'm definitely bustier than Sean Bean, I put kind of an S-curve across the bust of mine. Basically, I played around with paper shapes against my dress form until I got it right. The cross belt looks weird when laid flat, but when I'm wearing it, it gives a smoother effect and looks better.
 
spectreseven asked if the type of belt closure for Jyn Erso had been determined. So far none of the rpf threads have provided an answer to this question. However, since the “subway“ photos where released I have planned to use a magnetic buckle called a Fidlock, Flat Buckle.

Here is a web site for those interested.

http://www.fidlock.com/en/fasteners/snap-buckle.html

This buckle is made in several sizes and styles but the one I used in my tests is made for a 1” or 25 mm belt. I now see there are two newer, larger sizes so the 30 mm or 40 mm sizes might be better. The buckle uses a rare magnet on one piece and a small piece of steel on the other. When the two pieces are brought close together, the pieces automatically attract and align. When they are fitted together, the plastic frame of the buckle (in addition to the magnetic attraction) provides a strong side-to-side mechanical hold.
To separate the buckle, one piece is slid vertically in relationship to the other. This separates both the mechanical plastic and magnetic hold.

I made a quick mockup of the left-side of Jyn belt out of 9 ounce leather. The back buckle piece is mounted to the surface of the bottom layer of the belt which comes around her back. The front buckle piece is mounted to the flesh side of the top layer of the belt which comes from the front. To account for the thickness of the buckle the top layer needs to be built up. I accomplish this by cementing a piece of belt leather “filler” to the flesh side and then folding the grain side of the belt back on itself, wrapping over the leather insert. When viewed on end the top portion of the belt appears to be three times its normal thickness. This end thus rises above the lower portion of the belt. This works well as in the photos, there is a protrusion at the point of closure. I am merely using the thickness of the “leather covered buckle” as that detail.

Here is my first attempt at a short video which may help demonstrate my approach.

https://youtu.be/ZXGyc0uKBRk
 
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Okay guys. I finally got my Lange boots in. I know someone mentioned the best way to get these things off here, but now I can't find the post. Help?
 
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