Return to Oz (1985)- Fabricated and Real Props- Identification and Builds

[KOMakesThings]

Wow, thank you for the reply! It was actually you and your dedication to Labyrinth that inspired me to start focusing my efforts on 1 movie. Been following your thread for a while now and love new updates. I was hoping you would chime in!

I'm inclined to agree that pic 2 is the better choice as well. I think I could get a good shine on that one.

I'm honoured to have inspired you! There's a lot of fun to be had in focusing in on one movie, as your thread shows there's often so many little props throughout a film that end up overlooked, it's a lot of fun to give them their day in the sun. I especially love how they all look on a finely curated shelf.

I'm looking forward to future posts from you, there's probably so many fun items in the Ornament room alone!

 

[OzReturner]

Nome King's Hospitality Setup- Drinking Goblets

Here they are. The cups that started me down the real prop Yellow Brick Road. From the same scene as the pitcher discussed previously, the Nome King serves the group hot melted silver in these, along with a platter of Limestone Pies.

Prop Store had an auction for the Nome King's goblet, depicting a cup with a bear head, which, upside down, serves as the base. These are, in fact, called Stirrup Cups, so called because the animals depicted on them are typically animals you would hunt. So, after the hunt, and returning to the lodge, someone would run out and greet you with a drink while still sitting on your horse, and in the stirrups. The cup usually holds enough for a decent mouthful, but smaller shot glass sizes also exist. I have also once seen this referred to as a Timpani Cup.

Anyway, the Prop Store bear head, seen below, doesn't actually seem to be in the movie. Anytime you see the Nome King with a cup in his hand, it is still in it's "rock" form, and doesn't assume a "real" form, at least as far as I am aware of. I think it's one of those times where Prop Store dropped the ball a bit, because their listing didn't include a screenshot of it in the movie, just what you see above- to be discussed below.

So, after a lot of digging around and research, I found that the cups used in this scene are NOT bears, but wild boars (all 3 are identical). I haven't learned what the maker name of these are, but I do know that they are expensive, typically silver plated, and I've seen listings indicating that they were made in Italy. This shot really shows off their shine.

You can see a bunch of small "points" around the neck of the animal head in the screenshot, which is duplicated only on the boar head, along with the fangs overlapping the lips. This one below was on Etsy.

All sorts of animals were apparently made in this set.

But alas, I have not yet found one for a price I am comfortable with. So, as a placeholder, I bought some duller, not accurate but passingly close, wolf head stirrup cups. They were the right price, and make the right impression for now.

And here's the gang all together, with pitcher. Platter and pies to be found and made at some indeterminate future time. Eventually.

 

[OzReturner]

I have started a companion thread, to showcase what else I have from Return to Oz, that doesn't really fit in this thread or category. Commercially available items, figurines, etc. Check it out!

Return to Oz (1985)- A Non-Prop Collection

 

[AJLoCascio]

Just a quick google search, but this is pretty close for the powder of life: 30 x 55mm Gold Glossy PVC Capsules w/Tear Tab, 100/pk

 

[Tommy]

So, after a lot of digging around and research, I found that the cups used in this scene are NOT bears, but wild boars (all 3 are identical).

Good catch on the discrepancy with the auction listing photo; an all-too-common occurrence with many time-pressed vendors, unfortunately.

Then again, it's worth mentioning that this doesn't necessarily mean that the piece was inauthentic. To my eye, in contrast with the boars on the table, the rock cup seems to be distinctly bear-shaped and generally consistent in form with the auction lot. That could suggest a couple of possibilities: perhaps it served as the art department's reference model for sculpting the rock cup; or perhaps it was meant to be held by Nicol Williamson in his later transition phase, but the shots were deleted or it was switched out in favor of the pipe. Or perhaps even both.

Granted, this is mostly speculation beyond my observation of the rock cup's form. Being a found object, there's no way I would have paid £3k for the auction piece without decent evidence of its provenance. But it at least may have simply been a case of inadequate description.

 

[OzReturner]

Just a quick google search, but this is pretty close for the powder of life: 30 x 55mm Gold Glossy PVC Capsules w/Tear Tab, 100/pk

That does look pretty close, but is much too small at only 55mm tall. Thanks for searching!

Good catch on the discrepancy with the auction listing photo; an all-too-common occurrence with many time-pressed vendors, unfortunately.

Then again, it's worth mentioning that this doesn't necessarily mean that the piece was inauthentic. To my eye, in contrast with the boars on the table, the rock cup seems to be distinctly bear-shaped and generally consistent in form with the auction lot. That could suggest a couple of possibilities: perhaps it served as the art department's reference model for sculpting the rock cup; or perhaps it was meant to be held by Nicol Williamson in his later transition phase, but the shots were deleted or it was switched out in favor of the pipe. Or perhaps even both.

Granted, this is mostly speculation beyond my observation of the rock cup's form. Being a found object, there's no way I would have paid £3k for the auction piece without decent evidence of its provenance. But it at least may have simply been a case of inadequate description.

I agree that the rock form cup does have a bear shape to it, or that it's from a deleted scene, or simply reference material. It should have been mentioned in their listing that it was used DURING production, not necessarily screen used, though. It's a misleading screenshot, as they are definitely boars. So yes, way too expensive without convincing provenance.

 

[OzReturner]

Not quite right still, but this baking powder can has the right look to it. 5 14" tall by 2 3/8" wide. Not going to get it, but the dimensions seem right.

 

[Tim9d9]

Huge Fan of this thread! Very impressive work so far, always fantastic to see this magical film get the love and attention it deserves.

 

[OzReturner]

Posting for reference:

This is a vervet monkey skull:

And a 40 week old fetus skull:

 

[OzReturner]

Brass Bird from the Nome King's Ornament Room
So, I ended up springing for the second brass bird choice that I had questioned in Post #17. This was Dorothy's first choice, before settling on the not-yet-identified Scarecrow Ornament. Here is a blowup of it again, for reference's sake:

And here is the one I bought (for what it's worth, it shipped from Bulgaria). There are absolutely no maker's marks to be found anywhere on it, but the Etsy listing claims it to be German from the 1970s. I haven't got a clue how they determined this, though. It weighs in at a hefty 1.5 pounds, and is about 4 1/8" tall, 1 3/4" wide, and 3" deep. It arrived with a good amount of patina, and after some debate of whether to leave it as is, I did decide to strip it off and polish it. I wanted it to more match the shot from the movie, and it will pop better on my shelf if it's nice and reflective. I stripped the patina by soaking it in a slurry of flour, vinegar, and salt for maybe 20 minutes, rinsed that off, and polished with copper polish. The pictures don't necessarily show the drastic change this made, but I assure you, it went from brownish brass to a high polish. The photos make it appear like the detail is lost or washed out, but it is just as crisp in person. I tried to have 1 pose match the screenshot.




There are a few things I want to say about it. See this pic with arrows:

1. The bottom leaf that curves to the right of the image matches mine.
2. The log perch, with a hollowed out area matches mine.
3. The screenshot "shoulder" area seem sharper than mine.
4. The screenshot beak is shorter, and the head rounder than mine. Mine is longer, and more flattened.

It's strange to me that there exists a brass bird that is SO close, but mildly different. Why make different sculpts, yet so similar. Unless it is just camera trickery / perspective errors. Regardless, I am very happy with this new purchase, and happily add it to my display.

 

[KOMakesThings]

The beak of the bird in the film seems pretty blunt at the end, maybe it was as long as yours was and broke off at some point? Everything else matches up so well it feels like it has to be the same sculpt, and like you said maybe there's just something going on with the camera, lighting, or the angle that makes it seem just ever so slightly off.

 

[OzReturner]

Tik Tok's Chest and Collar Rivets

A minor update here. If you look at the front seam and collar area of Tik Tok, you will find that the rivets holding him together in those areas are little OZ easter eggs. This was very obvious and noticeable in a recent-ish video on Tested's YouTube channel, where Adam Savage got to inspect the actual Tik Tok costume in person at Prop Store. Needless to say, I was very jealous.

So, I managed to find some 3D models that were made (available on Cults 3D) and printed them in brass filament for added authenticity. These should be 1:1 scale, at roughly 1" around, but they are mildly oval in shape. At some point in the (hopefully?) near enough future, I want to try my hand at sand casting these in actual brass, so I can have real metal ones. This is something I plan to do for several projects I have in the preliminary stages for this movie. Here's mine:

And a poll question for any of you followers: what metal is Tik Tok "supposed" to be made of? I feel like the patina of him is reminiscent of copper, but in the throne room scene at the end, where he is all polished up, it definitely seems like brass. This is the direction I am leaning, but does anybody have any strong opinions you would like to share?

 

[Dan Efran]

In the books he's copper, for what it's worth.

 

[OzReturner]

In the books he's copper, for what it's worth.

Good to know, thank you!

 

[OzReturner]

Deleted Scene- Tornado Survival Newspaper Clipping

This is a bit of a deep cut prop, since it is only visible in very poor quality deleted scenes that I found on YouTube. This supposedly could have replaced the scene with Uncle Henry looking at the clipping for Dr. Worley's clinic at the beginning. We see Uncle Henry lying in the partially built house, and the camera pans up to a clipping nailed to a beam, stating that Dorothy survived a recent tornado. An interesting attention to detail here: Return to Oz is supposed to take place 6 months after Wizard of Oz. This clipping has a date of April- so 6 months later makes it October now. This would explain why it is cool out, and why the Ozma girl brings her a jack-o-lantern in her psych hospital room for a decoration, as Halloween is right around the corner.

Here are some images I got screenshots of, from the very poor quality YouTube clips. The clearer ones are closer up, while the blurrier one is a more unaltered shot, showing the entire clipping size and shape. There's also a long shot, that lets you see the whole entire clipping flapping in the breeze.

Using these admittedly terrible references, I recreated this clipping as best as I can, just making up lines that I had to guess at, due to the blurriness. Some words are discernible, and I tried to use them where possible, and included some easter eggs just for fun where I had to guess. The middle portion, which is the main event here, is 100% correct though. All of those words are recognizable. I punched 2 nail holes in the top and bottom to replicate its posting on the house beam. Printed size is roughly 5" x 5.5".

What's that? You may be wondering why Aunt Em and Uncle Henry's last name is printed as "Blue" and not "Gale." Baum never actually wrote what "Em" was short for, nor did he give them a last name. Wizard of Oz has Mrs. Gulch refer to Henry as Gale, but here in Return to Oz, Dr. Worley refers to Em as Mrs. Blue in the storybook version of the movie, shown here.

And also in the Topps trading/ sticker card series, card #3.

I like the consistency shown with this, a deleted scene matching the storybook and trading card, so I assume both are following an original script, which may have had them shown to be the Blue family. The exact relationship between Dorothy and her Aunt and Uncle is never stated, but for this movie anyway, we can assume Dorothy's mom is either Aunt Em's sister, who married a Gale, or Uncle Henry's sister, who married a Gale. I always assumed they were all Gales, but apparently not.

Another reason for the confusion?

I really enjoyed this particular replication, as it had me doing a lot of digging around, researching, and interpretation. Hope you all enjoy the final effort!

 

[OzReturner]

Kansas Poultry Supply Co. Crate Plaque

Here's another idea that came courtesy of Prop Store- the plaque that is on the side of the chicken crate that Dorothy climbs in when escaping Dr. Worley's clinic, and ends up arriving in Oz's Deadly Desert in.

And here is one of the Prop Store photos.

According to the site listing, the plaque is "intentionally corroded" to create "rusted steel," and is 5.75" high x 8.25" wide. There is no specified depth, but I just assumed it to be a bit less than .25". Using the help of my brother-in-law, I made a tracing in Photoshop, and used Illustrator to make a file that could be turned into a 3D print. I don't have a more coherent explanation, as he was taking the lead for me.

I then black primed it, and acrylic weathered it to look like rusted metal. I did not attempt to exactly duplicate the exact look of the Prop Store plaque, just a general rustiness.

I then wanted to mount it on some old wood, just like it is on the crate. I estimate that it would have to be 6.75" x 13.5" to match the screenshot. I have some old pallet wood lying around, just not in 1 single width of 6.75", so I used 2 pieces that are 3.375" wide instead to approximate the look. Zooming in, it appears the plaque is mounted with nails, and the board is mounted with slotted, flat head screws. Intentional or not, they used period correct screws, as Philips head screws weren't invented until the 1930s.

I predrilled the nail holes to be the exact size as the nails, so I can remove it later if needed, but won't fall off when displayed on the wall or shelf. Nails were rusted in bleach to oxidize them, they are not painted. I put some support pieces on the back, as well as a sawtooth hanger. Along with the previously shown Tik Tok rivets, it is my plan and hope to sand cast this in actual metal, and swap it out with a "real" one.

The eagle eyed among you will notice that the tornado clipping and this sign's cities both match: Cottonwood Falls. Chickens must be the local commodity of Dorothy's hometown.

I'm particularly pleased and proud of this one, as it is I believe the first time anybody has attempted to replicate this plaque. It is definitely a blink and you'll miss it prop, but being a project I invested a decent amount of time into, I think it turned out great!

 

[OzReturner]

Emerald City Stone Lady's Book

Upon entering the ruined Emerald City, Dorothy enters a garden-like area, to see the citizens have been turned to stone, one of which is a lady sitting on a bench, with a book in her hand.

Looks like the gardener has changed positions between shots! Must just be faking the whole stone statue bit.

While it doesn't look like much now, this changes after her and her friends defeat of the Nome King, when everyone starts to de-stone and come back to life.

You can now very plainly see what is on the page- her book is open to the chapter "The Awakening of the Sawhorse," which is from the 2nd Baum book, The Marvelous Land of Oz- one of the two books upon which this movie is based (the other being the 3rd book, Ozma of Oz). When the wind briefly blows, it flips to the next page, which is (mostly) correct, which I will explain shortly.

Even though the scene has a greenish tinge to it, the top edges of the book covers appear to be red. Which actually exactly matches the colors, and correct size, of a first edition of Marvelous Land.

The company, Books of Wonder, did a reprint in August of 1985 (movie was released in June). It matches a first edition in nearly every way, including size, which is about 7" x 9.25", and has the correct cover colors. These are super cheap on ebay, so, I grabbed a copy.

Here we have the book with dust jacket, without, open to the correct pages for the first screenshot, and for the second (almost). 1 page after the chapter begins, there is a color plate between the 2 text pages. I think that this was removed for the movie, so it would look more like a real book when the wind blew it over, and not like a kids book with colorful illustrations.

A quick addition to the collection, that also makes good reading- a win-win!

 

[AJLoCascio]

I really appreciate your obsessive attention to detail! Keep going!!!

 

[KOMakesThings]

These smaller prop builds are after my own heart, I love when overlooked props get their day in the sun. They're often the little things that help make the world shown in a film that much more real.

With your last post in mind, maybe I should enlist you in trying to ID the specific Wizard of Oz book Sarah has in her bedroom in Labyrinth. Tried to track it down a few years back but couldn't find an exact match, definitely curious if you have any leads on which one it might be!

 

[OzReturner]

These smaller prop builds are after my own heart, I love when overlooked props get their day in the sun. They're often the little things that help make the world shown in a film that much more real.

With your last post in mind, maybe I should enlist you in trying to ID the specific Wizard of Oz book Sarah has in her bedroom in Labyrinth. Tried to track it down a few years back but couldn't find an exact match, definitely curious if you have any leads on which one it might be!

View attachment 1691264
View attachment 1691265

No promises, but I will definitely try to help out!