Recast Alert

[Cenobyte]

Originally posted by iceman@Nov 29 2005, 11:54 AM
1. No , a definitive decision was not made within the 501st.
2. Yes, AZ was a member of the RPF , using the name "JAWAMAN" ( I do not see it currently listed though)

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That username rings a bell for some reason..

 

[darienvader]

One should indeed get all the facts before presenting a "recaster" thread . . . believe me, I know. Anyway, Azman's not even the maker of the armor in question. He does offer it for sale along with his very fine chestbox, but he doesn't produce said armor. Somebody else does, but that source to my knowledge has not been made known.

 

[exoray]

Originally posted by darienvader@Nov 29 2005, 04:21 PM
He does offer it for sale along with his very fine chestbox, but he doesn't produce said armor. Somebody else does, but that source to my knowledge has not been made known.

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So this is kinda like the SDS helmet stand, if you don't actually do the deed of recasting (if it is indeed recast) yourself or at least point the finger towards an anonymous person, then it's AOK for you to sell it? :confused

I guess we will have to wait for them side by side pictures to see more details. because honestly from the pictures in this thread they are similar but that is about all I can conclude...

And please do correct me if I'm wrong, but if what you say is indeed fact and Azman is not making the armor in question then in reality who needs to see his clay sculpts and his build ups, because it now appears that it's a different armor source and he is just the reseller...

 

[WebChief]

Originally posted by Cenobyte@Nov 29 2005, 04:11 PM
Thena LOT of teh RPF will be banned.

Take a peek at most of the locked threads. People screaming "Recaster". Look it up before you pose that threat. A LOT of people will get booted.

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There's got to be something in place to stop people from lashing out without definitive proof. At the very least the admins and mods should be asked first before posting out in the public.

Hey... I'm sorry but people need to have facts before they go dragging people's names through the mud. Its like people are guilty until proven innocent around here. Not exactly fair if you ask me.

 

[Skaught]

Originally posted by exoray@Nov 29 2005, 07:37 PM
So this is kinda like the SDS helmet stand, if you don't actually do the deed of recasting (if it is indeed recast) yourself or at least point the finger towards an anonymous person, then it's AOK for you to sell it?  :confused

No one is saying that. They are saying that the person being accused of recasting has nothing to do with the armor, and that the person that DOES have something to do with the armor made it himself from scratch.

Scott

 

[Jedirick]

Originally posted by Luuke@Nov 29 2005, 02:32 PM
I believe it's important point out that the pictures in this thread of the "recast" armor are not pictures of the armor that was worn on the night of the event MC is refering to or saying is the recast in question. It seems some people here are commenting as if that is the armor in question. It is not.

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Oh for Pete's Sake. Thank you Luuke. Somebody tell me is there ANYTHING ACCURATE ENOUGH in the opening statement of this thread to merit a call for judgement on recasting?

Seems the only effort made to be factual was in naming the individual targeted for this exercise in libel.

If original claims of recasting had any merit, false and misleading admissions have certainly clouded the issue. Anger at a suspected injustice does not allow justification for misrepresentation. Seems the complaintant has compromised his own integrity. This thread should be locked and archived as an example of how NOT to present accusations of recasting.

 

[Cenobyte]

Originally posted by WebChief+Nov 29 2005, 04:10 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WebChief @ Nov 29 2005, 04:10 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Cenobyte

@Nov 29 2005, 04:11 PM
Thena LOT of teh RPF will be banned.

Take a peek at most of the locked threads. People screaming "Recaster". Look it up before you pose that threat. A LOT of people will get booted.

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There's got to be something in place to stop people from lashing out without definitive proof. At the very least the admins and mods should be asked first before posting out in the public.

Hey... I'm sorry but people need to have facts before they go dragging people's names through the mud. Its like people are guilty until proven innocent around here. Not exactly fair if you ask me.

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[/b]

I was not trying to me mean to your postal at all bro.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

Just I see if someone is not happy, a LOT chime in and say "well X told Y that Z was a recaster" and I know because W is a friend of mine and I trust him.

 

[RICHIES ARMOR]

Ive had several items recast..its inevitable in the prop community especially with high volume or popular items. The method that I prefer is simplly refer the issue directly to Jedirick or the other mods and let them then step in. Its worked really well over the last couple of years. Seems a nod from them towards the alledged recaster speaks volumes.
A quiet investigation...as many of the RPF members do...tends to allow for a better judgement when the issue is presented. Usually most of the issues can then be settled behind closed doors and stops the inevitable flame wars etc.

2 cents.

Richie

 

[pnerves]

My question is- when this stuff is all settled, will an apology to the falsely accused be enough to vindicate them, or are their reputations tainted for good?

 

[Jedirick]

Originally posted by exoray+Nov 28 2005, 11:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(exoray @ Nov 28 2005, 11:50 PM)</div>

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@Nov 28 2005, 09:31 PM
I've looked into it and I've been presented with photos of the original sculpt, from the clay

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Out of curiosity was it a complete sculpt or progress pictures of the sculpt? Reason being it's child play to pull a clay positive out of existing armor and tweak it to look like a sculp...

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[/b]

AZ's RPF name is Mr. Bojangles.

I have just received some of the same pictures. This sculpt is obviously a normal pinch by pinch clay buildup sculpt techique used by most anyone familiar with clay sculpting. Obviously not one fabricated from a melted clay pull. Infact, the finishing of the final sculpt is painstakingly apparent - Chewie 15 style. IMO Someone would have to make enormous effort to manufacture these sculpts and present as fabricated evidence. Such talent and effort alone would negate any reason for recasting.

From general appearance and patina of the clay used for the sculpt, I can readily assure you it is certainly not a parafin based meltable clay such as that sold by Monster Makers. Furthermore I myself have made the grievious error of pouring meltable clay into some hastily manufactured styrene mold retention boxes only to watch the heat retaining clay distort the mold boxes.

As yet I do not have permission to openly post these pics and also want the RPF moderators to have a chance to review them.

 

[iceman]

Through all of this AZ has maintained that he did not make the armor, which I think everyone has pretty much accepted, but will not name the actual maker, and the maker has not stepped forward to defend the accusation. I have spoken with several people involved who know the maker and say it's because the maker is a well known prop/costume maker here and in the 501st, and does not want to have his name/rep ruined because of this. Absolutely understandable, however, AZ's reluctance to name the maker has been partially what has fueled this for so long, the general feeling is, if the work is legit, why not step forward and clear the air ? If this person has such a good reputation, it shouldn't take much to convince everyone it is legit. Because AZ has not revealed the source, the accusers have no recourse but to hold him responsible, just as if he was the maker. This is pretty much how police officers handle possession charges, if your caught with the goods, and you say its not yours, but won't say whose it is, you're going to get pinned with the charge.
This is not necessarily my position, just trying to help explain why the accusers keep targeting AZ, they would be more than happy to leave him alone and confront the actual maker. And at this point, the name will most likely come out anyway, I think it would look better for the maker if they would step forward voluntarily and help clear this up.

 

[rigormortis]

I know I said I was done with my 2 cents, but standard 501st protocol states never name prop makers in a public forum. And even then, if someone out of the blue asks me who made my armor, do you really think I'm gonna out them and leave them open to a copyright lawsuit by MR or LFL? Nope. Send me to jail or go down trying.

If you're not a 501st member, I won't tell you a thing unless the armorer tells me I can. If you are a 501st member, I will ask the armor maker if it's ok to give out their name. If not, no dice. I've worked with several armorers for the 501st - some want me to spread the word, others don't.

<REMOVED AT REQUEST OF ROCKETEER25>

So not outting the anonymous armorer (who has proved it's his own sculpt to both the 501st and some RPF mods) was a decent deed. Besides, if I was Az, I probably would have gotten myself banned by dropping F-Bombs at MC for trashing my rep and raking me though the mud. Our advice to him was to let our CO speak for him, and he did.

This accusation (while really understandable by someone who feels ripped off yet is proven groundless) is slander to a guy who doesn't own a vac table or even makes armor.

Az deserves one hell of a deep apology, IMHO. And I don't blame him for chiming in because of the wolf-pack mentality that occurred here from people who never even saw the armor in question. The "let's lynch him and prove him innocent later" mentality is wrong.

I begged for the RPF mods to lock this thread until things were proven, but alas, a decent guy's rep has been trashed. It's just sad that it went this far...

 

[OldKen]

you know a recast of a recast is one thing...

but when someone takes someones handsculpted stuff... thats in a league of its own.

not to start a flame war, i know how you guys feel about your stuff, but i just think its worse when a company starts from scratch and then it gets recasted.

sucks brother.

 

[Skaught]

Umm....huh?

Scott

 

[iceman]

Originally posted by rigormortis@Nov 30 2005, 11:33 AM

Az deserves one hell of a deep apology, IMHO.  And I don't blame him for chiming in because of the wolf-pack mentality that occurred here from people who never even saw the armor in question.  The "let's lynch him and prove him innocent later" mentality is wrong.

I actually asked early on in the year if I could inspect the armor in question, even offered to buy it outright. The maker is paranoid Hi-impact will get thier hands and do who-knows-what with it, so I was denied. Valid concern, but I am only acting in the interest of getting this resolved.
That offer is till on the table BTW.

 

[Jedirick]

Originally posted by rigormortis@Nov 30 2005, 01:33 PM


I believe one of our RPF mods knows the reasons why, as rumor has it they were almost sued by LFL a few years ago.


.

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To state it mildly and officially. Boulderdash.

It has always been our position or has for the last several years to do our best to stay under the radar so to say. We have worked hard to support licensed prop replica dealers and have co-operated with any licensee/sor inquiry though to the best of my recollection no studio licensor has ever contacted us with inquiry or complaint.

IMO LFL would be the last to find cause. With the legitimizing of the 501st as a bonefide fan organization it would be a bit difficult to acknowledge them yet have issue with unauthorized replication as 99.9% of 501st costuming is fanmade.

 

[rigormortis]

Removed at request of MOD

 

[rocketeer25]

This is getting better by the minute. :rolleyes

 

[rigormortis]

PM'ed I won't out people in public, like I said before.

And I am now done with this thread. If people want my opinion, PM me.

 

[micdavis]

Come on..... this VENTURE guy at least deserves a temporary BAN for just being stupid.

Of course he had less than 50 posts here when this started so do we care about him....I'd say no.

He certainly owes some people a big apology. Will that happen. Again...no.