1873 Springfield 45-70 Carbine Rifle

[Stairstars]

Sharing a new arrival, which is also the oldest screen used prop I have and wonder if there is anything older out there. This rifle, from the very obscure BRONCHO MOTION PICTURE CO. was made in 1882, but found it's way to Thomas Ince's INCEVILLE STUDIO, which was situated on 18,000 acres, stretching seven miles on the south side of Sunset Blvd., to the Pacific Ocean at PCH. On it, he built a movie making factory town, housing every aspect of film making and employing hundreds of people. He had a commissary to feed them, planted crops and built elaborate villages and towns as back lots. He made several pictures at a time and was often seen riding between them on horseback. He made a deal with the New York film Company, who also owned KAY-BEE, 101 Bison and Keystone, to have a foothold in CA. Broncho was to make western shorts and they did - 157 of them in a year and a half. The biggest was CUSTER'S LAST FIGHT, in 1912, which features these rifles as they were historically issued to the 7th Calvary. Further enhancing the spectacle of Ince's films was a deal he made with the traveling Miller 101 Ranch Wild West Show, under the agreement they would winter on the property in exchange for using their 300 cowboys and 200 Sioux Indians in the films, five of which claimed to be at Little Big Horn. Broncho only lasted a year and a half, and even the parent company was gone by 1914. In 1925, a year after Ince's untimely death, and in anticipation of the 50th anniversary of the real battle, they added two reels to the film and re-released it. It was a sensation again. Ince may also be remembered for Inceville, with nearly all wooden structures, burning to the ground and then being approached by Henry Culver, who offered him land in the city that would soon bear his name, to build a modern studio. He accepted and in 1915 built a beauty on Washington Blvd, that he later sold to Goldwyn. In May of 1924, that studio became MGM. Meanwhile, Ince built a second studio down the street with a large columned white house, as the offices, and many additional buildings to continue his idea of total film making and operated there until his death. We call it 40 acres now, and it became the home to DeMille, Pathe, RKO, Selznick, Desilu and Paramount. Some of the greatest films and best loved TV shows were shot there.

 

[Tommy]

Quite the enormous studio brand on the stock!

Imagine an armorer labeling their inventory that way today.

 

[Stairstars]

Yes, it sure caught my attention.

I assume Mr. Ince was making sure there was no doubt about it's ownership.

 

[TheBeast]

Thanks to Stairstars, both for sharing the prop, AND for starting me on a possible rabbit hole searching for a reprint of the movie poster...

Also, big thanks to Tommy for the mention of the stock.

Old phone, and old eyes, is making seeing details challenging.

 

[Stairstars]

Beast,

There are several eBayers selling copies of the posters, and there is even an original of it there.

I share your optic malady and learned a larger PC screen comes in very handy.

rick

 

[TheBeast]

Beast,

There are several eBayers selling copies of the posters, and there is even an original of it there.
...

Thanks, though turned into even worse rabbit hole with other items...

As for bigger screen and PC to attach, *ahem*, situations...

 

[Stairstars]

Beast,

When looking for long lost artifacts of years gone by, that rabbit hole is well populated.

 

[simiouno]

Great story,info, and Gun...Hooded front sight I've not seen before on a 73 carbine, could it be a Forager ? Although I think the Forager had a 26" barrel !

 

[Stairstars]

Thanks for noticing. I do think it was added later, as I have not seen one on a 1873 carbine either. I still do not know the history of the rifle, after either, the 1913 demise of BRONCHO, or the later end of Ince's studio, after his 1924 death. It is not marked for any other studio or armory that I can see. It came from the Blanchard Foundation Collection (James Blanchard, 1943-1999) a wealthy collector for decades, who concentrated on what he considered "rare and historically important firearms". He had some very remarkable pieces, but I think this one may have only aroused his curiosity, as I do not think he ever found out the origins of it's film use. The Foundation only stated the oblivious, that it "probably was used as a film prop". There is a 4E stamped on the tang, which might allude to Ellis ownership, but I cannot confirm that. They most often used EEE or even just E, but I found no record of any weapon as early as this piece to know what was used then. Maybe one will surface. It is truly the dark ages for props.

 

[simiouno]

Thanks for noticing. I do think it was added later, as I have not seen one on a 1873 carbine either. I still do not know the history of the rifle, after either, the 1913 demise of BRONCHO, or the later end of Ince's studio, after his 1924 death. It is not marked for any other studio or armory that I can see. It came from the Blanchard Foundation Collection (James Blanchard, 1943-1999) a wealthy collector for decades, who concentrated on what he considered "rare and historically important firearms". He had some very remarkable pieces, but I think this one may have only aroused his curiosity, as I do not think he ever found out the origins of it's film use. The Foundation only stated the oblivious, that it "probably was used as a film prop". There is a 4E stamped on the tang, which might allude to Ellis ownership, but I cannot confirm that. They most often used EEE or even just E, but I found no record of any weapon as early as this piece to know what was used then. Maybe one will surface. It is truly the dark ages for props.

Yes, it could maybe be a rack number from military service...is the bore still half decent ? I thought it may be a smooth bore Forager with shortened barrel,is the barrel 22" from breach face to muzzle ?

 

[simiouno]

Looking close it's an 1889/90 model

 

[Stairstars]

Serial number makes it an 1882 make. The condition was described thus: Condition: Barrel toned to brown, lock plate retains bluing, stock has scattered dings and dents, bore is quite pitted, action functions properly.

I measure 20 1/2" to where the forearm wood meets the front of the cast trapdoor.

 

[simiouno]

Serial number makes it an 1882 make. The condition was described thus: Condition: Barrel toned to brown, lock plate retains bluing, stock has scattered dings and dents, bore is quite pitted, action functions properly.

I measure 20 1/2" to where the forearm wood meets the front of the cast trapdoor.

Very interesting Gun...I guess if measured by rod down barrel it will be 22" always hard to say with old guns ! Do you have other movie Irons ? I do have a 9 2 Winchester made 1912 with carved Indian style stock that may be an old Wild West Show Rifle !

 

[Stairstars]

That sounds like a fine piece. Post an image!

I have Roy Rogers colt, with small rifle stock and 19" barrel he used in SON OF PALEFACE.

I also have a 1862 Smith and Wesson Model 2, used by Gregory Peck in HOW THE WEST WAS WON, the sheriff in SKIN GAME and then chromed, blued and pearl grips added for THE WILD WILD WEST.

Both came from the Stembridge Little John sale and are both posted here.

 

[simiouno]

That sounds like a fine piece. Post an image!

I have Roy Rogers colt, with small rifle stock and 19" barrel he used in SON OF PALEFACE.

I also have a 1862 Smith and Wesson Model 2, used by Gregory Peck in HOW THE WEST WAS WON, the sheriff in SKIN GAME and then chromed, blued and pearl grips added for THE WILD WILD WEST.

Both came from the Stembridge Little John sale and are both posted here.

Ain't got the big bucks ,so I do prop versions...here's my Johnny Ringo,Don Durant Revolver and the original Stembridge converted to blanks, I hear lots of usually nonsense about Hollywood guns as I'm sure you do ! They say his was converted to fire 44 rimfire blanks,I think no way could nine 44s fit the cylinder diamiter. More likely 38....the shotgun barrel I'm told was a 45 blank but again, more likely a 5in1...In the show they call the shotgun part a 410 and the chambers are supposed to be 45...like the Josey Wales Walker, that was 38 blank.Check out Joey Dillon on YouTube,he was the gun guy on westworld tv show providing a similar gun that was in 38 short blank ...we should figure out a break action on our prop version probably using a strong magnet and do a cylinder ring ! None firing but looks the part, overweathered for on screen naturally ! The loading apparatus and front bead where removed to match the Durant Gun !

 

[Stairstars]

Both my Stembridge pieces were misidentified in the Little John sale, making them much more affordable. I have since acquired copies of the rental receipts to corroborate my uses. Their knowledge of guns did not aid their lack of knowledge about film and TV use. The best example I can give is that one of the sources for the paperwork from Stembridge used that archive to note a Winchester 92, in the sale as unknown, proved to be one of John Wayne's with the large loop lever replaced with a factory one. He gladly purchased, put a large loop back on and provided copy of the rental receipt and re-offered it a few years later, where it sold for $92K. We can all dream...

 

[simiouno]

Both my Stembridge pieces were misidentified in the Little John sale, making them much more affordable. I have since acquired copies of the rental receipts to corroborate my uses. Their knowledge of guns did not aid their lack of knowledge about film and TV use. The best example I can give is that one of the sources for the paperwork from Stembridge used that archive to note a Winchester 92, in the sale as unknown, proved to be one of John Wayne's with the large loop lever replaced with a factory one. He gladly purchased, put a large loop back on and provided copy of the rental receipt and re-offered it a few years later, where it sold for $92K. We can all dream...

Nice irons...we recently made the stagecoach/rifleman type big loop from a new old stock lever,I do have a spare 92 carbine but would want it pro fitted and barrel shortened to 16" ...in rooster cogburn on the raft they used a daisy BB gun prop and el dorado where he chunks her gun in the river,photo on the right is such a style prop !