Rebel Troop Helmet (color debate)

wannab

wannab

Sr Member
After going through some hi-rez files I recently downloaded, I noticed something. It appears to me that the rebel trooper helmets are not white! They seem to be a "dove" gray color. Here are a few caps, see what you think.

In this one compare the helmet againts the stormtrooper and the walls.
4.jpg


In this one compare againt the trooper following behind.
3.jpg


In this one compare against the wall panels.
2.jpg


I think this one is the most revealing.
1.jpg


Given the fact that the ATAT driver lids were thought to be white and now proven otherwise, could this be the case here? It seems to be. Anyone have pics of a real helmet to prove one way or the other?

Discuss.


Doug
 
This is old news/debate.

Steve Sansweet/Mary Franklin at Lucasfilm have said that the helmets are "off-white". Several bases in the Rebel Legion have standardized on painting their helmets "Dover White". Sunrider Base had used a paint from Lowe's that is no longer available.
 
Any pics of a real helmet? They sure don't look white to me (not off white either). How "off" is off white?


Doug
 
Last edited:
Do not even BEGIN to attempt color matching based on any current release of Star Wars. They're not even close to accurate.


_Mike
 
mverta said:
Do not even BEGIN to attempt color matching based on any current release of Star Wars. They're not even close to accurate.


_Mike
Click to expand...

Why not they are comparisons in the same scene?

If not how about...shading instead of color?


Doug
 
Because no two shots in Star Wars even have the same grading (that's color quality). There is zero consistency within sequences. Even when they just cut out of and back to a shot, it's different. So you get the idea that they're all different, because they look different, but they're not. But because they look different from shot to shot, and you don't have an absolute reference to know which of the dozens of looks is correct, you can't trust any of them. And no, shading (by which I assume you mean luminance) is of little value when separated from the reflectance (color) which is what you're after.

_Mike
 
mverta said:
Because no two shots in Star Wars even have the same grading (that's color quality). There is zero consistency within sequences. Even when they just cut out of and back to a shot, it's different. So you get the idea that they're all different, because they look different, but they're not. But because they look different from shot to shot, and you don't have an absolute reference to know which of the dozens of looks is correct, you can't trust any of them. And no, shading (by which I assume you mean luminance) is of little value when separated from the reflectance (color) which is what you're after.

_Mike
Click to expand...

But I'm not talking scene to scene, I'm looking at a single shot and comparing within that shot. There is no way that helmet is white based on what is around it in the pic.

Doug
 
You don't know the absolute color of anything in that scene. That's the point. Without an absolute reference, which you don't have, you can't accurately call the color of anything. When I did my color correction of Star Wars, I took photos of several costumes, props, backdrops, etc., in the Archives with a Macbeth color chart. When I matched on-screen items to the color as determined by my chart, everything fell into place perfectly - flesh tones, known colors, etc. But without that absolute reference, you can't trust anything you see.


_Mike
 
mverta said:
You don't know the absolute color of anything in that scene. That's the point. Without an absolute reference, which you don't have, you can't accurately call the color of anything. When I did my color correction of Star Wars, I took photos of several costumes, props, backdrops, etc., in the Archives with a Macbeth color chart. When I matched on-screen items to the color as determined by my chart, everything fell into place perfectly - flesh tones, known colors, etc. But without that absolute reference, you can't trust anything you see.


_Mike
Click to expand...
I understand your point, but I know the stormtroopers are white albeit two shades (painted "stunt" lids and abs armor) and the rebel troopers aren't even close to them. I'm not trying for a specific color definition just pointing out they aren't white based on these pics. If the scene is altered/inhanced (whathaveyou) it should affect the whites in a similar way. If you look at the wall for example you can make out the differences in the whites (pink vs blue) but they are still white. If the rebels were white it would shift blue red or yellow not soft warm gray (and darker).

Doug
 
Well actually your idea that colors would change proportionally isn't necessarily true, photochemically, though it makes "logical" sense. You also have to take into account that cameras see things very differently than your eyes do. In a room (or scene) lit with fluorescent lights, for example, your eyes will "auto white-balance" and see white, but on camera you'll see a distinct coloration. Just like photographing a room lit by incandescent lights - on film it appears yellow, but in person, not.


_Mike
 
What mverta is saying about the color correction is absolutely true. However, if there is a shot of a rebel helmet up against a wall that looks whiter than the helmet you know the helmet is darker. But, you still would not know how white the wall or how dark the helmet actually is in real life. The only way is as mverta says, is to have known color reference (color chart) in the same shot, or as he did in relation to a known costume or prop. The only problem using a prop or costume as reference is that the colors in those may have shifted over time as well. For example, the current color of the original stormtrooper helmets is definitely not the same as they were in 1977, they are much yellower. I guess they are not screen accurate anymore either.:lol
 
Zenwalker said:
The only problem using a prop or costume as reference is that the colors in those may have shifted over time as well. For example, the current color of the original stormtrooper helmets is definitely not the same as they were in 1977, they are much yellower. I guess they are not screen accurate anymore either.:lol
Click to expand...

Definitely, though that's part of why I used multiple sample objects. Interestingly, though, the costumes I used were not only the most helpful, but calibrating to them made everything fall into place in a way that strongly suggests little or no color shift over the years. They've been well preserved at the Archives; who knows. However, if my entire color correction is offset by any amount, its by an amount that looks really natural. :) And if nothing else, the entire film is at least consistent within itself, and within sequences. The Death Star interior is now all the same color of blue-gray, and not green-gray, blue-gray, olive-gray, gray-gray, orange-gray, aqua-gray...


_Mike
 
I hope to one day see your restoration project Mike. I've been following it for quite a time, wish there would be updates on the site. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

TymanRoach
Help color matching PVC patches
Replies
2
Views
136
TazMan2000
TazMan2000
dproc
Rollerball Helmet - Finished
Replies
6
Views
355
dproc
dproc
Joseph McNulty
Arc Trooper Helmet
Replies
0
Views
417
Joseph McNulty
Joseph McNulty
streetjudge79
Buck Rogers in the 25th Century pilot helmet
Replies
7
Views
212
goldcylon
goldcylon
The 48th Ronin
Comic book style Rocketeer helmet
Replies
5
Views
840
BROTHERFOSTER
BROTHERFOSTER
Back
Top