Re-inventing Lukes ANH Lightsaber- And Vaders too??!?!

[DARTH SABER]

Great render EDC...Man do you know how hard it is to convince people who have been so accustomed to a theory that has been around so long thst its almost considered a fact...When I first discovered the placement I had to study that damn thing for hours before I got the nerve to post it...And once I posted it I knew it was a matter of time before the rotton tomatoes would start flying my way..
slowly but surely with the help other members (Gray pilgrim, Jedi Scout, EDC) the flying tomatoes have slowed down.
But moving on....While the D-ring itself looks like it has a little brass tint to it, I believe that its still metallic.
Some of the D-rings found at wallmart have a slight yellowing to them..I dont know if this is a result from age or the plating.

Also If you look at the pic above of the D-ring hanging on Luked belt you'll see that the D-ring is chrome/nickle plated as apposed to the Elco frame hanging kits D-ring which is a dull metal...The same pic also showes the D-ring to be a little bigger and thinner in metal than the Elco frame hanging D-ring...
Any thoughts?

I also want to find out how this is attached...Rivet or hex socket screw???. Also, (bear with me here, I just pulled this outta my ass) maybe the d-ring WAS attached with 2 rivets/hex socket screws, except they arent stacked on top of each other, but rather side by side.. I figure that 1 Revet/hex wouldnt be very secure for hanging on the belt..I know Id be worried about hanging my saber if its held on by only 1 fastener...
Heres how I came up with this theory (its very very thin)...here goes....Look at the pic I posted above..The B&W closeup with the RED line. Now look at the same pic next to it without the RED line...Look EXTREMELY close at the area where the rivets might be....you will very very very faintly see 2 faint circle outlines next to each other (since the saber is at that angle the circles are on top of each other...If no one sees this thats OK...Its very faint.

 

[lonepigeon]

We're going to need alot more reference than this to nail this thing down to the attachment method (we barely have an idea of the mount). I think rivets are more likely, with slotted screws in second place. Personally I hate socket screws on sabers (unless it's the big ones on the Vader ROTJ). They were never used on the real props why put them on replicas?

That scan of the VD is all yellow. The D-ring is just standard nickel plated, nice and shiny. Looks like a standard one inch D-ring like Vader's.

 

[DARTH SABER]

So, we can agree the the D-ring is a standard 1" nickel plated..Like the ones Found at Walmart? Yes, no?

The folded metal is most likely the one that EDC mentioned..the standard 1 hole wall mount?
(Forget that stacked rivet theory...That was probably just the coaugh syrup I drank earlier talkin)

Is the 1 hole wall mount rounded on the end like the 2 hole version?? anyone?

Im not even going to ask if we agree on the centered D-ring position yet....I still some some rotton tomatoes aimed at me out there..

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

I would like to see more definitive pics too. However I am as stubborn as they come and I would have to say its the single hole bracket that is being used, simply put, there is no room for the length of the double hole version.

If you look at the chronicle pics at the beginning of this thread, its pretty obvious that its center mounted too.

Check it out:

Granted the type of fasteners used is still up in the air, I also hate allen caps screws too, I would bet on slotted screws if I had to take a guess though. Rivets are cool, and neat, but is there ANY proof that they were used on anything else? Something that would suggest they used them to fasten a good deal of items so that we can assume they may have been used on the ANH saber?

 

[lonepigeon]

Rivets were used on the saber belt hooks in ANH. They were used alot more in ESB and ROTJ (X-wing vest straps, ESB saber mounts, tons on ROTJ guns).

Their use in ESB and ROTJ proves nothing, but the belt hooks are a little support for the guess.

This D-ring attachment doesn't look manufactured to me. We may never nail it down completely. Looks like a strip of metal folded in half- it doesn't conform to the contour of the D-ring like the picture mounts do.

It's amazing how our whole view of the saber's D-ring is based on the darn Icons and they just copied a picture frame hanger.

The Chronicles pic still doesn't scream center mount to me, but it could be a distorted trim job on the photo. The bottom of the D-ring looks so elliptical, more than what you would see in a profile. However if the D-ring was angled away from us it would look that elliptical easily. Like I said it could just be the bad trim or even the grip ends making the ellipse of the bottom of the flash look flatter than it is.

So any thoughts on seven grips? Do we only assume 6 because of the ESB having 6? I double checked the Vader ANH and 6 is correct, but we will soon have a better pic which implies 7 for Luke's. Looking at the Vader ROTJ grip spacing (compare to Luke ANH Chronicles), 7 doesn't seem that far fetched.

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

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lonepigeon wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
This D-ring attachment doesn't look manufactured to me. We may never nail it down completely. Looks like a strip of metal folded in half- it doesn't conform to the contour of the D-ring like the picture mounts do.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

OK I have to ask, how in the hell can you tell it does not conform to the D-ring, or that it does not look manufactured? You can barely even see it in these pics. If you have other reference shots, please post them.

The one thing I do notice, that if it is the same D-ring bracket as on the bowcaster as you say, it is clearly crimped around the D-ring, that much can be seen. So then it would not be just a folded piece of metal. Given its use on more than one item it is also likely that its a found piece.

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lonepigeon wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
The Chronicles pic still doesn't scream center mount to me, but it could be a distorted trim job on the photo. The bottom of the D-ring looks so elliptical, more than what you would see in a profile. However if the D-ring was angled away from us it would look that elliptical easily. Like I said it could just be the bad trim or even the grip ends making the ellipse of the bottom of the flash look flatter than it is.
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Dude I drew a line straight through center, it lines up pefectly, if its not dead center, its REALLY close like withing a millimeter. As for the D-ring, it depends on the type of ring used, some bow out more than other, and some have sharper "d" profiled, and some are in between. Then again, your right, it could just be the angle of viewing too. Also keep in mind that if only one screw is holding it down, it could spin a bit leaving it not 100% "true" in the pics.

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lonepigeon wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
So any thoughts on seven grips?</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

I seriously doubt there were seven grips.
Look again at my renders, youll see the grips line up and match the real pics, and my model has 6 on it, if there were seven they would be grossly misaligned in comparison.

I would guess however that the grip spacing isnt quite even and perfect.

 

[Howard]

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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
BTW the D-ring definitely looks bigger than the "picture frame wall hanging" D-ring that we all use....
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Darth Saber's right, I think. Take a look at the scene in Ben's hut again. Towards the end Mark places his finger through the D-ring and the saber dangles. Now, I have smaller than average hands, but getting my finger through the JS D-ring up to the first joint is not easy. Try it with your sabers. Also the saber seems to be supported from nearer the centre than the edge when Mark's finger is through it.


The postcard pic also shows the D-ring to be almost three quarters the diameter of the tube bottom at its mounting point.

I think from looking at SWVD pictures the D-ring is slightly off centre.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ro.

 

[Shinobi]

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lonepigeon wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

It's amazing how our whole view of the saber's D-ring is based on the darn Icons and they just copied a picture frame hanger.

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I couldn't agree more. Because Icons released their version of the hanger, we've become so accustomed to it that we never REALLY looked at the pictures until now. Great thread. I always believed that people attached their D-ring assemblies too close to the edge instead of centering it a bit more. However this one screw/rivet assembly is news to me. Hmmm...

Btw, I would go with rivets - it just looks better

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

Ok I di some more research with the aid of my 3D model...

I realized that even though I drew a line through center on the Chronicles pic in my post above, I still had to account for depth into the picture in relation to the flashes rotation to figure out placement of the D-ring.

The model is rotated a few degrees to match the angle of the real pic, and the clamp is also offset a few additional degrees too just like the real pic.

I also put on SEVEN evenly spaced grips just for ***** and giggles, here is what I got:

Now let me remind you this model is accurate in all measurements EXCEPT the red button and its placement, but the parts we are dealing with are what counts here anyway.

First off notice the grip line up to the pic with the proper spacing, I would have NEVER wanted to believe it, but I have to admit I am now seeing 7 grips there, alignment and spacing are damn near perfect.

As for the D-ring, you'll notice it looks just a bit high on the model, thats because it is perfectly centered. Now if you were to butt the rounded edge of a single hole bracket against the inner lip of the bottom of the Graflex. the D-ring will fall about .125" lower than it is now, which would make it line up with the "center" line just like on the real pic

BTW the center line on these pics is not a true center, more just a line of reference, you can see though that all concerned details fall into the righ place on both the real pic and the model.

I really think we are onto something here now

 

[Howard]

I've only been a member here for a short time, but his is the most interesting post I've read.

Charles, any chance of posting an 'end on' render of the new centered D-ring and seven grip assembly?

It looks to me from the postcard pic that the saber has 7 grips. If you lay your 6 grip saber on the floor it doesn't rest at quite the same angle to the saber at Mark's foot.
Also, can I see Mark's shoe through the edge of the D-ring in this pic, or is it a grip? Either way, this would make the D-ring larger and thinner than the JS ring most of us have.

This is a real NAG. (Need Another Graflex!)

With MR latest release of the Vader ANH saber, it will be interesting to see what they come up with if they release the Luke Graflex!? Perhaps they're re-thinking their plans even now...

 

[DARTH SABER]

I 'm all ready burnt out from trying to convince everyone about the "centered D-ring" theory. So i'll move on to the 7 grip theory....BTW Good find JFowler.

If you look you will see the same pic I posted on the last...You can also count 7 grip tips around the whole saber..

BTW:-I think this whole thread might be archive material-

 

[gavidoc]

EDC,

In your rendering of the 7 grips, I don't think that the d-ring is aligned directly at the "9" position with the button at "12".

But more at the "7 or 7:30" position. You do that and the d-ring being centered doesn't match up directly. When looking at the chronicles photo, what seems to be the outer edge of the d-ring is (to me anyways) the flat section but you're looking at a 3/4 view of the d-ring, not a side on shot.

And the Kenobi ANH uses a 3/4 d-ring. Not a 1". I've always believed tthe Vader ANH uses a 3/4 as well adn not a 1".

 

[DARTH SABER]

Gav, I dont think the flat surface is tilted toward our view..The reason I think this is because you can see a reflection of light on the d-ring which has a gradient fade which is found on curved objects...And also tou can see the seem where the metal wraps around the D-ring...
Also If you look at all of the other pics the D-ring placement is in accordance with EDCs 3dD render..

Also, better RECHECK Lukes ESB and make sure it doesnt have 7 grips too.

 

[Akanah]

Lets jsut say I am glad I have not made my ANH saber yet...heheh

 

[DARTH SABER]

neither have I...hehehhe....

 

[dcarty]

I would like to point out that the crappy cropped photo of the Graflex from the Chronicles book can be viewed un-cropped in the "Star Wars: Behind the Magic" CD ROM. You can also see what looks like a vague attempt at rounding the edges of the grips as well (not as rounded as the Icons though).

Dave

 

[Akanah]

Until I get a definative view of the d-ring assembly, I will probably just leave it off my ANH saber.

I assume there is no such discrepency with the ESB saber? I am just about to attach my d-ring

 

[Treadwell]

As I depicted above, I agree with Gav that we are seeing a 3/4" view of the D-ring in the Chronicles pic. The gradient supports that, actually, imo.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

O.K., call me a loon, but this is what I think.

I think there was a difference between the actual screen used saber, of which we have very few photos (only the movie), and a 'Hero' saber used for some/all promotional pics of the saber. Now remember, Lucas and everyone else thought SW was going to flop at the box office. Magazines don't want to take photos of the stars of a movie until after it comes out, and all the actors are back in Hollywood, and you have been editing the movie for 6 months after all the filming was completed and all the props are in storage and/or returned to Bapty of London which is thousands of miles away.

My reasoning is this: the screen used version has the clamp and bubbles in the 9 o'clock position and the version with the blade had the clamp and bubbles in the 12 o'clock position.

However, most/all the promotinal photos show the clamp in the 3 o'clock position, maybe a different saber, never used on screen while filming, never taken to England or Tusinia, never scratched or exposed to desert heat, just the normal wear and tear of a 1940's flash. If all the props were returned to Bapty of London after filming, the 'Hero' we see in all the pics could have been made in California, by ILM, when Mark Hamill had to do a photo shoot, take it to an opening or tv show, promotion, whatever. Do you really think George would call up Bapty, have them ship over the Saber, or that Mark and People Magazines Photographer would fly over to London to shoot a photo? Graflex's were not too uncommon in the 1970's.

So, the California ILM guy adds 7 grips instead of 6, because he can't remember exactly how many there were, or he thinks 7 looks right, or someone tells him it's 7 because he has never actually seen the prop in person, or they use 7 instead of 6 because they never imagined 30 year old guys would be sitting around arguing about how many rubber grips are on a 25 year old prop, whatever.

Now these 7 grips stay on the Saber. Most of the Luke sabers are lost or stolen at some point, but not the Skywalker Ranch Saber, which we still have, and can pick up, and hold, and look at. It also has 6 grips. Why would they only use 6 grips and not 7? The Vader ANH has 6 (no augument?), the Vader ESB had 6 grips (still no augument?), and you can count 6 grips on the ESB Luke on screen from the Wampa cave or the SR Saber (still, no argument?), so why does this Saber have 7 grips?

Also, ICONS had access to photos that will never see the light of day, that we will never see, of the original screen used prop. The grips, the d-ring, everything. I'm not a fan of ICONS, but George Lucas and ILM did approve the Luke Saber before it was released right (yes, I know thats a weak argument due to the many innacurices on both the Vader and Ben Sabers).

So, why does this Luke saber seem to have 7 grips? Why did the Luke ESB severed hand/Vader ROTJ have 7 grips? Probably because it is the same Saber, it always had 7 grips, and it was not made by Bapty. I'm guessing. Same reason for the d-ring. It's different because it's not the one used onscreen, it was made after the fact (it was changed to the ESB d-ring for ESB, thus we will never know what the d-ring looked like).

I have this fear there are hundreds of rabid kids out there peeling off their rubber grips and calling poor John at Blast-Tech asking if they can but just one more grip from him.

The general public will never see most of the photos we see here. I know when I watch the movie, I see only 6 grips on Lukes Saber, maybe I'm blind or need an eye checkup, but I only see 6. Unless there is a photo released to change my mind, my Sabers look perfect to me and they will not change.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]