RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, detailed jacket specs.

agent5

Sr Member
I've had several members ask me about getting a screen accurate Wested Raiders jacket so I figured I'd do up this list with a little bit of history as well.

Over the years the Wested jacket has undergone many design changes. Some to benefit the customer and some by the customer. What may have worked for a film jacket did not always work for everyday use, therefore many design elements were slightly altered. I wanted to catalog these changes to the best of my ability and document any recent or new discoveries that may get overlooked from time to time.
Not long after the release of the dvd's, Got Maul and I put together what we considered to be the definitive and most comprehensively detailed list of Raiders specs for the Wested jacket. Not surprisingly after we ordered jackets together did we both realize we still left out a couple small details and then left it at that.
I still keep seeing people asking what they should get if they want a solid, screen accurate Raiders Wested jacket? Alot of this info has been around for quite a long time but nobody was putting all the pieces together to get THE definitive Raiders jacket, even after all these years. There was always something forgotten or overlooked since alot of the info was fairly widespread. So, after doing a little more research in the archives here and even more extensive research off the dvd's an other source material, I decided to add to that original list and complete it to it's intended glory.
Over the years there has been much debate. I say, the debate is over and has been for some time. We've just never seen anyone do the research fully and present it all here. That is my intention.

Here is the list:

1. Leather- Authentic brown lambskin leather.

2. Pattern- 919 (Chris King/80's/thinner) pattern.

3. Lining- Cotton Silesia lining / body and sleeves.

4. Zipper- 5 gauge aluminum zipper with small zipper pull that extends to the bottom of the jacket.

5. Leather facing- NO leather facing on the zipper.

6. Storm Flap- 1.5 inches (3.8cm) width; ROUNDED top corner.

7. Collar stand- Leather collar stand.

8. Collar- 2.75 inches (7cm)on the tips, tapering down to 2.5 inches (6.4cm). The left collar should also extend to the midway point of the top of the storm flap, or .75 inches (1.9cm) from the edge of the flap.

9. Right Pocket- 1.5 inches (3.8cm) from the zipper seam (edge of jacket).
2 inches (5.1cm) from bottom.
Width of pocket: 6.25 inches (16cm).
Length of pocket (including pocket flap) :7.5 inches. (19.1cm).
Scalloped pocket flap.
Pocket flap length in middle of flap, 2.75" (7cm)
Aluminum or nickel snap.

10. Left Pocket- 1 inch (2.5cm) from storm flap.
2 inches (5.1cm) from bottom.
Width of pocket: 6.25 inches (16cm).
Length of pocket(including pocket flap) :7.5 inches. (19.1cm).
Scalloped pocket flap.
Pocket flap length in middle of flap, 2.75" (7cm)
Aluminum or nickel snap.

11. Side Strap- Legnth : 8.75 inches (22.3cm)
Width : 1 inch (2.5cm)
Side straps sewn with X pattern AND box pattern, double stitched.

12. Side strap buckles- BLACK OR GUNMETAL rectangular 2 piece rings.

13. Side vent stitch- NO stitch holding the side vents closed.

14. Pleat depth- 1.25 inches (3.2cm).

15. Yoke seam- The arm seam should be 1 inch (2.5cm) BELOW the yoke seam.

16. Back panel- The back panel should extend all the way out to the sleeve seam.

17. Inside pocket- Left side, slit (less leather) pocket.

18. Underarm Gussets- 1 piece (small) underarm gussets, or no gussets at all.


We'll start with this pic.

[attachmentid=11979]

You can plainly see how scalloped the pockets are and you can make out the one-piece underarm gusset as well. Also, you can notice the inside slit pocket very well. Some of you may have alot more leather around your inside pockets and you need to make sure you request the slit pocket with less leather. You can also notice the pocket in the pic below as well as the well roundedness of the top of the storm flap.

[attachmentid=11980]


I noticed two distinct types of cuts on the edge the of storm flap on the Raiders jacket. Rounded and pointed. Wested only makes the top of the storm flap pointed unless you ask them to round it off. Even then, they hardly round it enough.

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Notice below how close the collar is to the edge of the storm flap. Wested will end the collar at the storm flap seam if you do not ask them to do it the way it is in the pic below. The collar should extend to the halfway point of the top of the flap as seen in the pics.

[attachmentid=11983]

The next two pics demonstrate very well what the length of the jacket should be. Your pants should be pulled up right around the middle of the side pockets in the front and right around the midpoint of the back pockets as well. Wested does a great job at making this happen when you give them accurate height measurements. If you're slightly overweight or more (be honest ;) ) you may want to add an extra inch or more to the front of the jacket to prevent it from riding up. This has come up in the past and the extra inches added to the front have been the solution.

[attachmentid=11984]

[attachmentid=11985]

Below you can easily see how the yoke seam is placed above the arm seam and how the back panel extends all the way to the arm seam. Also notice the very narrow action pleat. On the note of action pleats, there seemed to be varrying sizes of pleats throughout the film. You can see this by doing very basic measurements right off the screen. The seem to vary between 1.25" and 1.5".

[attachmentid=11986]

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Below again you can see how the back panel extends to all the way to the arm seam as well as a good comparison of the width relation between the pleat and the side strap. This is also one of the best examples of the X-Box pattern on the side strap.

[attachmentid=11988]

The next pic shows a decent pic of the side strap with the X-Box stitch on the front of the strap. You can get a good look at the pockets in this pic as well as the aluminum or nickel pocket hardware.

[attachmentid=11989]

The next few images are as decent pics of the straps that are available.

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[attachmentid=11994]

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[attachmentid=11996]

Above and below you can definitely make out the rectangular shape of the side strap buckles. Many over the years have argued that D-rings were also used but I can find NO evidence to support this. On top of that, the screen used stunt jacket that turned up had rectangular rings on them.

[attachmentid=11997]

[attachmentid=11998]


Below is the closest (yet blurry) view of the side strap buckles. You can see that even thought the side strap is not fully closed that there is still a decent ammount of leather left hanging out. This is the reason for the longer than standard length for the strap itself. We also believe that in the film the strap was turned in on itself to increase the strength of the mechanism. You can also slightly see the underarm gusset in this pic.

[attachmentid=11999]

Below is the clearest pic of any of the underarm gussets used in the film jackets. Some of the jackets did NOT have gussets, but since some did and some didn't, both versions would be screen accurate. One thing is certain to me is that it was NOT a two pice gusset, but a very small and thin, one piece as you can see below.

[attachmentid=12000]

The last pic is of the zipper pull. All I can say about it is that the one on my Westeds is appears slightly bigger than this one. It was also said for years that the original zipper was an 8-gauge zip but both of my Westeds appear again, to have the teeth being too large. I had a jacket installed with a 5-gauge zip which is what Peter uses for the cotton Wested and it was much, much better than the 8-gauge in terms of screen accuracy.

[attachmentid=12001]

As already stated, Wested has made many changes over the years. Most of them at the request of the consumer, basically us. :D The great thing about Wested is that even though they've incorportated some changes for the better of the jacket we can still ask and receive any of the mods we ask for to bring it as close to the sceen used jacket as possible. I wanted to reiterate what some of the design changes were, why they took place over the years and the choices that remain. I must be completely clear here that Wested has made these changes to better the jacket for public use. The original jacket was a quickly put together movie costume and although it is a good looking, functional jacket, it may not be anywhere near as comfortable or easy to wear as the jacket Wested put's out today. The information in this post only reflects what we see on screen. This has all been explained in past posts, but I thought it beneficial to host all of this info in one post.

Here goes.

1. Leather - The authentic brown was made available after the Wested jacket had been on the market for some time. Peter located the original color to source out what we now know as Authentic Brown. The leather company Wested sourced for the screen jackets used an old technique which gave the leather alot more grain as you can see in the posted pics. Sometime after Raiders, the leather company changed the process that they used to make the leather and the skins became alot smoother. For screen accuracy, I feel you need to ask for the thinnest and grainiest leather Wested can source. Many people comment on how light it looks comparred to what we see on the screen, but if you distress is properly, you can achieve the look as if Harrison Ford himself handed you his hero jacket.

2. Pattern - The original patterns that were used by leather Concessionaries to make the original Raiders of the Lost Ark jacket were refered to as the '919' pattern and were tailored to fit Fords thin frame. When Leather Concessionaries later formed Wested and began making the Indy jacket they loosened up the size of the coat so that it could fit a wider range of customers. It wasn't until Chris King discovered this in a conversation with Wested and asked for this pattern to be used on his jacket in August, 2002. Wested now offers both the standard and 919, or what is sometimes called the 'Chris King' or '80's fit' pattern.

3. Lining - Peter has stated that the entire Raiders jacket was lined with Cotton Silesia but over the years Wested began using satin as an alternative. Customers found that sometimes their arms would get hung up on the cotton in the sleeves and that the satin let the arms slide through with ease. Although not screen accurate, a cotton body with satin sleeves has become the norm.

4. Zipper - The orignal zipper was made from aluminum and broke easily. Wested began using an 8-gauge nickel zipper to get the silver color and did not extend the zipper all the way to the bottom of the jacket as it was in the film. The reason for this is if you move the zipper up a few inches from the bottom as they did, it would reduce stress and lessen the result of tearing the leather. Although the moved up zipper placement is standard, Wested will take both requests. They do not however, still use the nickel zipper. At some point there was a problem with them and they now only use brass. I always thought the 8-gauge zipper teeth looked too thick when compared what was seen on the screen and when Wested began production of the cotton Indy jacket they used a 5-gauge zipper, which has smaller teeth and to my eye is more screen accurate. In the end if you want the real deal you want 5-gauge aluminum, but you'll have to buy it yourself and send it to Wested to have them install it. God Bless them for allowing us to do so. :tup:

5. Leather Facing - The original jacket had no leather facing along the zipper track. This is one thing that lead to the characteristic of the wavy zipper we see on the jacket in the film. Early on Wested began adding a leather facing along the zipper track because some customers complained they kept getting their zippers stuck on the lining, which was the best and smartest decision from a technical standpoint. Although the change to add the facing was considered standard, Wested would continue to take requests to leave it off.

6. Storm Flap - From years of combined research and from what Wested attested to, the width of the storm flap has always been 1.5". One thing Wested will only do as a request is to round off the top corner of storm flap as it looked in the film on at least one of Fords hero jackets. The standard is a more squared corner, which from a professional point of view, is probably more correct.

7. Collar Stand - The original jacket most worn thoroughout the film clearly had a leather collar stand. There were some stunt jackets that definitely had a cotton collar stand but I can find no evidence that any of the hero jackets did.

8. Collar - One early complaint of the Wested was the collar. Many thought it too big, sometimes over a width of 3". You can request any size collar you like but from our collected research a size of 2.75" at the tips rounding off to 2.5" looks better on a standard sized frame. If you are a larger person you may want to go with a 3" collar or maybe slighty larger. If the rest of the jacket gets sized up the collar should to to be kept in perspective. Another important screen accurate spec that is only done by request is to make sure the left collar extends to the midpoint of the top of the storm flap as seen in the film. As standard, Wested keeps the collar fairly flush with the storm flap seam so you have to ask if you want it as it was on the original jacket.

9. Pockets - In 2002, Wested began using a standard pocket size of 8.25" by 6.75" based off of vhs caps from a customer. I've found that on an average frame these specs are much too big. At 5'10", I asked that my pockets be at a size of 7.5" by 6.25" and that seems to make a big difference. If you are over 6' tall you should most likely go with the standard pocket size Wested offers so that they are in proper perspective with a larger sized jacket. There are also more and less scalloped pocket flaps in the film, so thats all up to personal preference.

10. Side Strap - The original Wested strap was at a good, long length and at some point a change in the side strap hardware reduced the length of the strap. Based on years of collected research the width of the strap is considered to be 1'. Since the strap is barely seen on film and when it is it's never loose, we don't know the exact length. Later on after the discovery of the rectangular black buckles I moved the length of the strap on my jacket back to the original, 8.75" standard size length Wested made them at. Another thing to note is that with the way the side strap is configured it will face forward when put through the buckles. In order for it to be as we think it was on the film jacket was to take the leftover strap and force it back through the back buckle, thus leaving the strap facing backwards. That reinforcement makes it much tighter and much less likely to come loose.

11. Side Strap Buckle - Based on info from a screen used stunt jacket and the caps from the dvd's, it was evident that the side strap hardware were four (2 on each side) black or gunmetal gray rectangular buckles. The stunt jacket also had silver buckles painted black. That's all up to you to do that.

12. Side Vent Stitch - The side vents on the original Raiders jacket open up with ease which is one of the telling characteristics of that jacket. At some point (maybe from the start) and most likely for technical reasons, Wested began putting a stitch at the top of the vent to help keep them closed. If you want the vent to open as it di din the film, ask that they NOT stitch the side vent up.

13. Pleat Depth - The orignal pleat depth of the Raiders jacket was shallow. Because the jackets used in the film were brand new the pleats stayed flat. When you wear a Wested for a while, some of the pleats start to become slightly wavy. This caused Wested to deepen the pleat depth up to 3" and later adding elastic under the lining to help keep the pleats closed. I've found that there were different sizes of pleat depths on the original jacket but the two you'd want to stick with are 1.25" or 1.5", which is what my original Raiders jacket made in 1999 had and they reflect the look of the original jacket well.

14. Yoke Seam - The original jackets had the yoke seam around 1" above the arm seam as can be seen in many frames of the film. The yoke are in general appears to be smaller than in the sequel jackets but Wested will not make the yoke smaller as they've been asked to do so several times. If I recall, it had something to do with modifying the existing pattern. This would also extend the length of the back panel as well, but instead I believe what Wested does is move the arm seam down so that it is below the yoke seam and gives it the look as in the film.

15. Back Panel - You can clearly see in any frame of Raiders where the back of the jacket is exposed that the back panel ends right at the arm seam. Early Wested jackets had the back panel ending 1" off of the arm seam, which actually helped keep the action pleats flatter. But, it didn't take long before fans asked that their jackets now come with the back panel extending all the way to the arm seam, or as close as possible, just as can be seen plainly in the film.

16. Inside Pocket - We know for a fact that there was only one, left, inside 'slit' pocket in the original Raiders jacket with a very minimal facing. At some point Wested started adding more than just the small slit of leather and added a much larger facing, which effected the drape of the jacket. Wested still does both versions of the inside pocket and you can have more than one, but you must specify exactly what you want at the time of ordering.

17. Underarm Gussets - Some of the original Raiders jackets had underarm gussets and some didn't. I assume some of this was determined by whatever scene was being filmed and what they needed the jacket to be able to do for any particular scene, such as stunts. I can only find evidence of a 1-piece gusset being used as can be seen in the film, but some have requested a 2-piece gusset which Wested will accomodate. However, if it's film accuracy you're interested in then a small, 1-piece gusset or no gusset will do.

Lastly, here's a pic of my Wested. Still needs a bit of fine tuning, but it's my baby.

[attachmentid=12002]
 
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rocketeer25

Sr Member
Excellent information. :)

Both Agent5 and GotMaul were extremely helpful to me when I was ordering my Wested Jacket in December. :thumbsup
 

dr_slurpee

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Agent5, have you noticed that the side straps on Wested jackets now seem to be backwards? I can'd figure out a way to loop them through and have them pointing backwards as can be seen in your screen grabs...then again I might be overlooking something...any insight on this?
 

TomSpinaDesigns

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Agent5,

Have you guys thought about bringing this list to Wested? Not to have them change their original jacket, but to have an "Agent5/GotMaul" option?

(Maybe one for people under 5'10" and one for over (since there are a couple of notes you make regarding height).

That way, people can call up and simply ask for your version and save a lot of possible confusion.

Tom
 

Hairyloft

Well-Known Member
Great stuff and good timing Ive been looking at the wested recently. Thanks

Originally posted by Wampa@Feb 16 2006, 05:51 PM
Agent5,

Have you guys thought about bringing this list to Wested?  Not to have them change their original jacket, but to have an "Agent5/GotMaul" option?

(Maybe one for people under 5'10" and one for over (since there are a couple of notes you make regarding height).

That way, people can call up and simply ask for your version and save a lot of possible confusion.

Tom
[snapback]1186072[/snapback]​
 

Treadwell

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Excellent work..

I thought this was a Last Crusade pic. No?

[attachmentid=12003]
 
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Zendragon

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The above is a Raider pic, you can tell by the fedora...

Thanks for the great info Agent5, I think it is time to order mine now..but in the goat.
 

Westies14

Master Member
Thanks so much. What a great effort.

What does Wested charge for their replica nowadays? This definitive list makes it seem like it's finally time to bite the bullet and get one done right.
 

Apollo

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Originally posted by Zendragon@Feb 16 2006, 03:40 PM
TI think it is time to order mine now..but in the goat.
[snapback]1186251[/snapback]​
You will love it..


Trust me. ;)
 

PHArchivist

Master Member
GREAT stuff. I just hope Peter doesn't :rolleyes with a new, more detailed set of specs. ;)


One comment -- is the info on the pockets reversed? It mentions the Right pocket being set off from the storm flap, but shouldn't that be the Left pocket?
 

lonerthx

Well-Known Member
Anyone know a good source for the black rectangular side buckles, I want to get my D-rings swapped out?
 

Got Maul

Official Licensee
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Well, Jason and I thought that if enough people ordered it this way, then he would change the basic way he makes the jackets....

alas, nope.

The fact of the matter is Peter believes that doing it this way is unwearable. I have to admit, if we weren't slender, it would be kind of a pain in the butt to move around and you end up losing a lot of mobility in the arms. Just FYI

Thanks for the post Jason . Awesome thread man...if anyone is watching, this should be archived...we get A LOT of PM's asking about these jackets.

jose
 

Got Maul

Official Licensee
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
also wanted to point out that Chris King really is the man who started the sickness for me and Jason. Just want to give mad props to cking .
 

agent5

Sr Member
Thanks for all your imput, people. I really appreciate it. :thumbsup
Yeah, there were alot of people before us that did alot of this homework, they just never cataloged it all in one place. Chris was most defintiely one of the pioneers who bumped this whole jacket thing to another level and he was the intial discoverer of the thinner, original pattern. Hence, the 'Chris King' pattern. It was seeing one of Chris' very early Indy mannequin displays that really got me going full swing into this hobby as far as the gear is concerned. So, yes, after thousands and thousands of dollars later, THANKS CHRIS. :love


Jose,
I was hoping this would be archived here. I think there are alot more 'closet Jones fans' around here than I thought. :p Alot fo the measurements and determination to get this done propperly was done by you as well, I just took it to the next level. So, some of this is definitely your doing as well. I know you are more than pleased with your jacket. I can understand Peters unwillingness to jump on the original specs cuz the movie jackets had no time to be tested out. They were simply make for the look. I'm sure these specs are alot less comfortable and forgiving, but it was just a costume. In the end, that's all I want it for. Just glad that we can get it done any way we want and you can't get that from FS. :thumbsup

Dr. Slurpee,
What we figured was the only way to have the straps facing backwards was to do put them through the way they were intended and this will have them facing forwards. You then take it, turn it back and put it back through, on top of itself in the last loop you just put it through, making it face towards the back. This also makes it so tight that it won't come loose as would if you had sliders or D-rings for hardware. We believe this is what they did for filming so that it never would come loose.

Tom,
I guess Jose kinda answered your question. I doubt Peter will make this standard but you can always just copy this and e-mail this list to him and they should do it up as such. As far as height, if you give them accurate height measurements they take that into account when you order, but you do have to tell them to upsize the other stuff (collar/pocket size). Whaddaya waitin' for, man? Get your jacket. These guys that worked on these films are all dropping like flies. :lol

Treadwell,
That pic was taken by Bill King for a 1981 issue of Rolling Stone. :thumbsup

Zen,
Thanks, man. Get your goat. I'm thinking about it myself.

Westies,
I believe after tax and customs it comes out to just over $300.

PH,
D'OH... Thanks, man. I edited that pocket thing. :thumbsup

Loner,
No luck on the black buckles other than Flightsuits and they won't even sell them to you unless you have one of their jackets. I repleaced my Wested hardware with their buckles, but that's about all I like about their jackets anyways. Wested might sell you theirs but they aren't black, they're more gunmetal gray. If you can locate any black, rectangular buckles anywhere, PLEASE let me know.
 

Dr. J

Active Member
Agent 5, how much does Flightsuits charge for the sliders if you DO have one of their jackets?
 
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