PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN *possible solution found?*

[BRRogers]

Has anyone here attempted it?

I've been considering making my own chain-mail type armor for some time now for various fantasy/medieval related projects, and have been unsatisfied with the results that I've seen with the hackneyed method of cutting PVC pipe down.

However...

In my search...I was browsing the WETA website and I found a link for their WETA/TENZAN mail group. Apparently, it would seem that they used a specialized injection molding process to form their rings.
There were no further details about production.

Although: there was a small blip about the promise of providing their products to organizations beyond film, such as theatre and REENACTMENT GROUPS. Though they say it is planned for the future, I am not particularly optimistic about the timeliness of these plans.

So here is my question to all you experienced film-prop-costume-maker-officionados... Could it be done in the SAME way? OUTSIDE of WETA?? HAS it been done, to the same standard? HOW would it be done, and WHO would be capable if the task was assigned?

Link to WETA/TENZAN here... http://www.wetanz.com/armour-chainmaille
Feel free to discuss and share your thoughts.

P.S. PLEASE DO NOT re-link me to alleyscratch or any website that uses the same technique unless it's for the sake of technique comparison and discussion. Although I commend them for their efforts and their ability (as well as their persistence in the technique), it simply does not look the same. Until PVC mail can be indistinguishable from the real metal thing (Or likewise, WETA's product), I will never be satisfied. The technique of making rings from PVC pipe just wont' cut it for me.

 

[BRRogers]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN

Haha, well then, I guess yall are either jealously guarding your secrets...

Or are just as clueless as I am!

Ok then, who would be interested if I could find someone to get the ball rolling on this?

My thought would be to do production of RINGS ONLY. Assembly required... but with accurately sized and durable rings. I am unsure of the details, but basically the process would be *click* & glue.... or something.. (decidedly easier than working with steel/aluminum/rivets)

Any takers?
Also... I have no idea what I'm doing, but I feel this needs to be done. :cry
Sooo... help is (would be) appreciated :thumbsup

 

[stormtrooperguy]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN

i like the plastic maile conceptually for movies, but for up close costuming, i'll always stick to metal.

when the lord of the rings costume exhibit was in boston a few years back i got to see some of the pvc maile up close and it looked great, but it lacked that sound that metal on metal makes when you move.

i use aluminum rings for all of mine. it weighs very little (my AL hauberk weighs about the same as my boba fett armor vest)

i get my rings here: http://theringlord.com/

 

[SmilingOtter]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN

If you're looking for a better way to make rings from commercially available pipe, I'd say just start experimenting.

If you're looking for custom fabrication from the very beginning, I'd say that it would be a lot less trouble just to go ahead and make it from metal. I make butted maille, and it's not hard to do. (As evidenced by the fact that I can make it! )

 

[knightoftheroc]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN

Has anyone here attempted it?

I've been considering making my own chain-mail type armor for some time now for various fantasy/medieval related projects, and have been unsatisfied with the results that I've seen with the hackneyed method of cutting PVC pipe down.

However...

In my search...I was browsing the WETA website and I found a link for their WETA/TENZAN mail group. Apparently, it would seem that they used a specialized injection molding process to form their rings.
There were no further details about production.

Although: there was a small blip about the promise of providing their products to organizations beyond film, such as theatre and REENACTMENT GROUPS. Though they say it is planned for the future, I am not particularly optimistic about the timeliness of these plans.

So here is my question to all you experienced film-prop-costume-maker-officionados... Could it be done in the SAME way? OUTSIDE of WETA?? HAS it been done, to the same standard? HOW would it be done, and WHO would be capable if the task was assigned?

Link to WETA/TENZAN here... http://www.wetanz.com/armour-chainmaille
Feel free to discuss and share your thoughts.

P.S. PLEASE DO NOT re-link me to alleyscratch or any website that uses the same technique unless it's for the sake of technique comparison and discussion. Although I commend them for their efforts and their ability (as well as their persistence in the technique), it simply does not look the same. Until PVC mail can be indistinguishable from the real metal thing (Or likewise, WETA's product), I will never be satisfied. The technique of making rings from PVC pipe just wont' cut it for me.

I'm not sure I understand WHY you want to go with a plastic for chain mail, as you didn't go into that too much. If it's a weight factor, the ring lord (link posted earlier) has VERY good products at a fair price. I make armor for fighting in (with my youth group), and have always done it in steel. A back injury in '06 has made steel no longer an option for me, so I am switching over to aluminum for the weight difference. At approximately 1/3 the weight of steel, with about the same strength, I'll hopefully be able to get into the armored fighting again as heavily as I used to.
The aluminum links, IMHO, for costume use, would be an excellent choice, as the weight isn't bad, the movement remains proper, and the finish is great. Ring Lord also offers aluminum stock in colors, so you aren't locked into 'silver', either. In fact, unless you want an electrically insulative property from the armor, I can't see why plastic of any kind would be preferable. It seems the technology of the fabrication method isn't to a point that would make cost a factor over that of aluminum.
While I make and use armor as a hobby, I've made my living for the last 20 years as a plumber and HVAC/R tech. So, plastic piping, I'm WELL familiar with. As they make it in several materials, my experience with it might prove usefull to you- all I can do is offer, if you'd like to ask. The same goes for armor questions.

 

[mdb]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN

The technique of making rings from PVC pipe just wont' cut it for me.

But that is what Weta used in lotR The process was refined after. I got a chance to handle a number of items of interest and the rings were definitely pvc pipe heavily electroplated and had rough edges. They did clink, but more like you would expect from tin or aluminium rather than steel! They were not terribly difficult to split and you could do so without use of pliers.

Background Rohirrim got knitted maille

Other armour looked to be made of sheets of polyprop. And there was even a mylar laminated fabric type material used for some elven armour.

But if you, naturally, prefer the smoother look of the later product.. I'm sure you could find a company to do something similar, there are manufacturers of plastic chain after all but I suspect cost would be just that little bit high... And I think home based products (sculpt and cast your own rings) would be prohibitive in terms of time.

 

[Ghadrack]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN

I followed the tutorial in the archived thread last year and made a PVC maile shirt for a halloween part last year for an office halloween party. It worked great, I just assembled the rings, primed sheets of rings grey then spray coated them with a bright chrome pray paint and they looked pretty good. I am at work right now, I still have the shirt at home.

The project probalby took me about 30 hours of work to make a full size adult maile shirt. I used 1" PVC electrical conduit for thicker rings, they still leave a fairly sizeable exposure of the undergarmet under the maile because of the size of the rings so you have to plan for that.

TO be honest I really don't understand what you are asking in your initial post. Injection molding plastic to look as good as real chain maile?

 

[BRRogers]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN possible solution?

Mini update...

I found these little plastic washers at a local surplus supply store.

They are PERFECT. Proper size and "gauge" for my needs and light as heck.

The only thing that will prevent me from making any progress is... how do I permanently re-connect the pieces together again to prevent the chainmail from falling apart when pulled?

I'll do some tests with a soldering iron to try and 'melt' them back together... but pending those results, are there any plastic specific glues out there that you guys would recommend?

The rings are really easy to punch through with a standard pocket knife, so time is no issue... it should also be relatively easy to paint. Quantity *might* be an issue... however the store employee i talked to said they like to keep those things in stock. They have them (currently) in a box... I'd guess there are roughly at least 500
Also, since the chainmaille I plan on making will only be seen in still shots, I have no need for actual weight or "clink".

 

[Ramiel]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN possible solution?

Is it for your "Link"?
Right?

Sorry, I have no clue about the glue... Maybe superglue, or (as you have already planned) melt the plastic...

 

[Sidewalker]

Re: PVC Mail & WETA/TENZAN possible solution?

I would go for CA glue in gel form rather than liquid. One quick spot of it is all you need with virtually no wait time to dry. And you will likely need several thousand links to 10's of thousands depending on how much this armour covers.

 

[BlindSquirrel]

Depending on what they're made of, Weld-On #3 might work. It chemically welds most plastics and acrylics.

 

[Reactor drone]

I've seen the Weta/tenzan mail sprues unassembled,If you wanted to recreate the same type of product you'd have to make an injection moulding die(and have an injection moulding machine to run them on )

For the people who haven't seen them they're an open ring with a small overlapping section on each end that will sit together when pushed,a spot of liquid cement on each join once it's assembled and you've got a permanent join.

The sprue trees weren't that big,maybe 30-40 rings per shot from memory.Looks similar to this.

 

[dkwd]

Keep in mind too that you really only need to cut about half the links. You can weave mail with leaving every other link (or washer) solid.

This would also speed up the resealing.

David

 

[BRRogers]

Keep in mind too that you really only need to cut about half the links. You can weave mail with leaving every other link (or washer) solid.

This would also speed up the resealing.

David

Reactor drone: Thankyou for that, that's really insightful. I don't think I'll be able to produce molds like that though ( I lack the $$$ & molding skill).

Dkwd: You are brilliant. Hadn't thought of that :lol