Preshading vs. Washing?

Discussion in 'General Modeling' started by masterjedi322, Mar 6, 2004.

  1. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    Hi, Everybody,
    I've been reading up on some basic modeling techniques, and I had a question regarding preshading and washing.

    From what I've seen, preshading involves painting panel lines prior to painting the actual model to help highlight these lines.

    Washing is done post-paint, and involves applying a thinned paint into the panel lines to bring them out.

    My question is, do you modelers generally use both these techniques on a single model, or just one or the other? It sounds to me as though the outcome of each technique is to make the panel lines more visible, but I don't know if it's good practice to do both?

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    I'd say it depends on the kit. Sometimes I use both. If I'm trying to give it the illusion of being very large, like a Gundam kit, I'll take the airbrush and use black or a very dark shade of the base color and spray all the panel lines and deep recessed areas and leave a wide strip of paint so it's about 1/3 of an inch on either side of the panel line. Then when you spray the lighter base color, you have a natural shadow or area of "newer" darker looking paint heading towards the panel line. It just helps break up the solid color. Then I go over the panel lines with a tech pen or fine brush with thined black wash and wipe off the excess. This final panel scribing goes on after the paint has been sealed, so it won't come off with the excess. I like to use greys and browns for panel lines on some kits, so it's not so harsh a dividing line. Or a darker shade of the base color. Un;ess it's a heavy weathering job, then black shows up best most of the time.

    Raygun
     
  3. JPolacchi

    JPolacchi Sr Member

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    Those are some good guidelines...everyone buids/details kit diferently,and as mention...depends on the subject matter.I don't shade my kits much...depends.A basic stencil/mask and using an off slight color(sometimes a shade/tint darker) to the main base color to accentuate areas on a kit.

    I like to "dry brush" and use "washes"(very diluted/thinned paint 4-5 parts thinner to paint)on kits to bring out the detail.Almost any color will do,typically shades of grey,black..and sometimes browns,again it depends on what the color scheme is and what effect you want.

    Washes are good to bring out recessed detail,and also simulates grease/oil stains.Scoring,soot/exhaust&burn/blast marks are best accomplished with an airbrush...but can be done on a small scale with hand paints&really small brushes,and again..I like doing this with a liitle wash.Sometimes applying an ammount of thinner on the model,then a smal ammount of paint...it makes a streak/stain & will follow the contours of the model,or if you need to manipulate it a direction.

    Another good weathering technique can be done with artist chalk pastels.It only works on "flat paint surfaces".The chalk will settle on the rougher surface.You can simulate stains/streaks of any kind this way.The chalk is scraped into a small pile of powder&applied w/Q-tips.If you make a mistake it is easy to remove.You can seal the surface afterward to keep the pastel on the model&keep it from smudging&finger prints.This will dull the look a little though.I've read some modelers who weather(use washes) on their models similarly,but with water colors,or oils instead of acrylis&enamels.

    Simulating paint chips can be done a number of ways.Most are hand done with various colors of metalic metal colors like aluminum&steel.Some people go to elaborate lengths.One I've read about was paining various shades of paint below the main base color...and spattering floor wax&painting successive other coats on top.When the paint dried,tape was used to rip off the cured wax droplets underneath...exposing the other colors beneath...making a chipped paint look.I've also read about guys using rubber cement with a similar technique,and/or sprinkling table salt on tacky paint surfaces and again..employing a similar technique. The sky is the limit,you just have to try it.
     
  4. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    What exactly are you painting? Some of the tricks mentioned are going to depend onwhat scale the kit is. Like the salt trick for example is good for smaller scale paint chips, but tape used to peel off paint to reveal a metallic undercoat may be better on a larger kit. It'd be easier to help you if we knew what it was you were working on.

    Raygun
     
  5. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    Thanks for all the advice guys.

    Raygun, to answer your question, I am researching particularly for my CC X-Wing kit that I will be starting in the next few weeks.

    However, I am hoping to venture deeper into the model-making world after I finish school, so I've been reading up a lot on various techniques, but like a lot of things, more information leads to more questions. [​IMG]

    Thanks again for all the great tips. If there's any advice directed specifically toward the X-Wing kit, I'd really appreciate it too.
     
  6. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again for all the great tips. If there's any advice directed specifically toward the X-Wing kit, I'd really appreciate it too.

    Yeah [​IMG] I'd get as many photos of the X-wing as you can find. Figure out which one you want to build, or which one CC based his on (I can't remember). The chalk weathering will be a big help on this kit. Remember to seal it between coats of chalk, so that you can keep what you like and wipe off what you don't.

    I have a standard mix I use for grimy, oil, burnt and generaly greasy yuck. mix three equal parts of rubbing alcohol, tamiya transparent orange, and tamiya smoke, then add a few drops of Golden Airbrush Carbon Black. You can try other brands of black, but Golden seems to mix well without settling or curdling in the alcohol. If you use it as a wash you'll have to test it to see if it's too dark for what you want. When I use it for washes, I dip my brush in alcohol, then into the mix and then apply it. Usually I use it in my airbrush for building up burn marks for engines and laser blasts. The cool part about it is that you can get several different shades of "burnt" with one paint mix. The lighter you go, the more it looks like it's just been overheated and makes the paint under it looked a little brown and cooked. The more layers you apply the closer you get to the "laser blast near miss" look. If you apply it in a circular pattern, keeping it darker near the center it looks like a blast mark with the heat disipating away from the center of the hit. If you apply it by misting it over a large area, you'll get a generally "dirty" or weatherbeaten look. When you mix this with using the chalk techniques, it's pretty cool. As a wash you can use it to make a puddle of sludge. Look at your car's engine, and you'll probably see somewhere in there a corner where you've spilled oil that's now cooked on to the engine and collected enough road dirt to make it a solid. If you put a little of the wash in some of the recesses on the X-wing near the engines, and flick brown or black chalk into it until it's thick, you'll get a similar effect. You can also thicken it with that fine grind HO scale grass...not the strands of grass, but the green foam that's been ground to nearly a powder.

    If I think of anything else, I'll post it here for ya [​IMG]

    Cya,
    Raygun
     
  7. Naked Brain

    Naked Brain New Member

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    MasterJedi,

    I used both preshading and washes on my CC Xwing... as well as some other techniques, like pastels and even a candle in some spots...

    You can check out my results here:

    http://www.nakedbrain.com/xwing.html

    HTH,
    Tim
     
  8. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    Tim,
    That looks great. beautiful weathering job!

    Raygun
     
  9. Naked Brain

    Naked Brain New Member

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    Raygun,

    Thank You!! It was truly a labor of love... [​IMG]

    I have one more of those that I can't decide what to do with... either find someone to do a custom buildup for, or sell it.

    Tim
     
  10. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Naked Brain wrote:
    <HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Raygun,
    Thank You!! It was truly a labor of love... [​IMG]
    I have one more of those that I can't decide what to do with... either find someone to do a custom buildup for, or sell it.
    Tim
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    I almost bought one, but I couldn't cover the 1/35 scale gundam kit and that at the same time. If it were mine, I'd hang it from the ceiling. Some heavy fishing line and small eye bolts would probably hold it. And they'd be easy to fill and patch if you decided to take it down again. I couldn't sell it. I have a hard time sending the comissioned stuff I've done out the door. I make sure I get pictures of everything I've built for other people, so I can at least have that. Unless it's a choice between eating or having a kit, I'd keep it. Besides, they're tough to get now that CC said this was the last run [​IMG]

    Raygun
     
  11. Naked Brain

    Naked Brain New Member

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    Raygun,

    Man, I'd give my left "you-know-what" for one of the 1/35 EX-s kits... I came really close to geting one, but it didn't work out... I still go to the G-System site to drool over it a couple of times a week... You're lucky...

    Tim
     
  12. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    I almost had to sell mine! I Ebay'ed a bunch of old kits to get the down payment then made monthly payments back in 2002 when they offered the preorder deal on hobbyfan. I got mine for $1400. I couldn't buy it now at $2100 though. Even if I was employed. I was sweating my last few payments when I got laid off, because we had the wedding coming up too. Hobbyfan was very understanding and helpful during the whole thing. I told them that I was let go and about the wedding, etc and they let me slide a few months so we could recover somewhat before paying it off. One more plus for dealing with small business, they have families and problems too, so they're more understanding. Not a faceless corperate giant. I'll be posting pictures etc, as I go on the EXS. I'm also considering putting everything down in a "how to" style book with the EXS as the kit I use for it. There's so much to do on it that I think it would cover a lot of different building/painting techniques. I thought it'd be worth it to have as a record of building it and if there's enough interest, I'd make copies for sale on CD or via Kinkos book printing service. I miss writing articles, but I don't miss kissing butt to whoever donated the kit. I can be honest about this one. Let me clarify that: I was always honest in what I wrote, but I couldn't dis on a kit for an article, I had to show how I fixed the problem without * about it. Which in my opinion made me feel like I was sugar coating it. I didn't like that. I refused to review a few kits because they were just crap kits and I tried to use kits I bought so I wouldn't have to walk on eggs when I wrote it up. Anyway, I haven't really started yet, since I need to buy some serious automotive paint for it. I don't think acrylics are going to survive assembling and disassembling it to take it to shows. I need something with a hard finish like epoxy paints. Then I can do all my detailing and weathering in acrylics, chalks, etc.

    Raygun
     
  13. Naked Brain

    Naked Brain New Member

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    Raygun,

    Will be very anxious to see your progress... do keep us informed!

    You can reach me off-list, too at tim@nakedbrain.com if you wan to continue our discussions there...

    Tim
     
  14. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    Thanks again to everyone for the tips.

    I have gathered quite an extensive collection of reference pics composed of screen-used models, other fan-made models, and some screen-grabs. I figure the OT DVD set will be awesome reference, but I don't know if I'm waiting until next fall to start this thing. [​IMG]

    Naked Brain, awesome pics by the way...your X-Wing looks fantastic. A couple of those close-ups look like you could be standing next to the full-scale model. [​IMG]
     
  15. Watson

    Watson Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>I have one more of those that I can't decide what to do with... either find someone to do a custom buildup for, or sell it.</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Naked Brain if you decide to sell it let me know. I would like to have another one.

    Masterjedi, Perfect timing on this thread. I have been contemplating how I am going to paint mine. I think Alfred Wong's Weathering Tutorial found at SSM is pretty good. You need to get that started so we can compate notes [​IMG]

    JDH

    BTW here is the link to Alfred's Weathering Tutorial and it just happens to be on a Captain Cardboard X-Wing
    http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/aw_wx.htm
     
  16. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    Another question regarding washes:

    I've read that whatever type of paint you use on the model, to wash in the opposite. For instance, if you paint in acrylics, wash in oils.

    A few articles and videos I've seen say, while washing, to keep a rag or towel handy with some thinner (for whatever paints you're washing in) to wipe away excess wash.

    My question is, is using thinner on top of a painted model safe for the other paint? Is the difference between oil and acrylic thinner enough to prevent oil thinner from affecting acrylic paint?
     
  17. Naked Brain

    Naked Brain New Member

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    Just make sure that your acrylic is thoroughly dry before attempting an oil wash. 18-24 hours is generally a good bet.

    I've had really great success with spraying Testors MM acryl and then washing with oils thinned with mineral spirits. Make sure you get a really good base coat of primer going so your acryl base coat has a strong foundation to stick to. I use Krylon gray and white rattle cans for this almost exclusively, but any good primer will work fine.

    If you base coat with enamels and plan to do an acrlyic wash, add a couple of drops of rubbing alcohol to your acryl mix to break the surface tension a bit, otherwise the acrly just beads up and dosen't flow right.

    HTH,
    Tim
     

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