Phantom Menace Review...Everything you were thinking and more!

[Commander Max]

I think the elements I liked best in his videos were when he would use the behind-the-scenes footage to underscore his points. The furtive glances and bull**** artificial compliance offered by those working for and around George were painfully clear to me when I was watching all the documentaries on the DVDs.

I also loved how he used this footage to demonstrate George's extreme inconsistency, lack of grasp of his own work, and flat out contradictions.

I was disappointed though that he did NOT cut old Ben's explanation of the Force immediately after Qui-Gon Jin's BS about mid-eee-clor-eee-whatevers...

The inserted statement of young Lucas discussing how a special effect with no story value is BORING serves masterfully in reflecting how George has simply "lost it"...

It shows that humans are making these movies, and GL isn't up to all of the hype.

I find "making of" things irritating how they depict everything as perfect and wonderful. They neglect people's interaction, as most of us know how that can get. And often times that is the part that is more interesting. A bunch of people scared of a control freak who is loosing it. I wish there was a studio reining in Lucas.

Another thought, it displays what might be going on with GL, when each time they release SW in a new format they have to change something. And with that a little more of SW magic is lost.

 

[Jumpin Jax]

The most profound point he makes is the rhetorical question:

"What if Lucas had this much (film-making) power when he made the first one (such that NO ONE would question him)?"

His initial idea was a mockumentary following the trials and tribulations of the Rebel Alliance.
Would you have seen it?
Me neither.

 

[Howard]

Another thought, it displays what might be going on with GL, when each time they release SW in a new format they have to change something. And with that a little more of SW magic is lost.

To paraphrase:
'The more you tighten your grip, Lucas, the more fans slip through your fingers.'

 

[Solo4114]

It shows that humans are making these movies, and GL isn't up to all of the hype.

I find "making of" things irritating how they depict everything as perfect and wonderful. They neglect people's interaction, as most of us know how that can get. And often times that is the part that is more interesting. A bunch of people scared of a control freak who is loosing it. I wish there was a studio reining in Lucas.

Another thought, it displays what might be going on with GL, when each time they release SW in a new format they have to change something. And with that a little more of SW magic is lost.

Yeah, and interestingly, I think that the behind the scenes stuff helped create the "Cult of Lucas" as well as contribute to the inevitable backlash when he failed to deliver with the PT.

I don't know about you guys, but when I was about, oh, 7 or so, PBS first ran the "From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga" documentary. It was AWESOME! But it also showed all the stuff about how everything worked out wonderfully, how Lucas was a genius, and actually is the source of the clip where he says, "A special effect without a story is a really boring thing."

All of that stuff, I think, helped create the idea that Lucas was this infallible genius who created Star Wars out of whole cloth, and always envisioned it pretty much as it ended up on screen. The behind the scenes footage only loosely touched on things like "Well, originally I wanted the Ewoks to be Wookiees, but then Wookiees had become too technologically advanced." Never mind the fact that the wookiees look just fine as adversaries to the droid armies in ROTS.... Oh and he also touched on whether he really wanted to make Leia the sister at the end. Never mind the icky moments in the first two films...

So, in the end, fans end up putting Lucas -- unfairly, I think -- on a pedestal and assuming that he can crap gold. Which, of course, was never true in the first place. The reason the originals worked well is that the creative team around him helped reign him in, and in the face of his limitations, he could only put the BEST ideas up on the screen instead of ALL his ideas.

So, yeah, I absolutely agree with the "Phantom Reviewer" when he talks about art through adversity. But I've thought that for a while about the star wars films.

 

[PHArchivist]

So, in the end, fans end up putting Lucas -- unfairly, I think -- on a pedestal and assuming that he can crap gold. Which, of course, was never true in the first place. The reason the originals worked well is that the creative team around him helped reign him in, and in the face of his limitations, he could only put the BEST ideas up on the screen instead of ALL his ideas.

Yet another of MULTIPLE examples of the influence of those working around him on ANH is the script - not the story structure but the dialogue.

I think we all know Harrison Ford's famous quote, "George, you can write this **** but you can't say it..."

What fewer folks may know is that George's friends the Huycks (a script writing couple with whom George worked with on American Grafitti) were paid as script doctors to tighten up and sharpen up the dialogue...

Think about what this film would have been if George's lame dialogue and whacky ideas were left in the script, and if the effects and production design were handled by less talented folks...

"B" movie fodder...

 

[Nwerke]

Starcrash, basically.

 

[PHArchivist]

And to be fair, I think it bears mentioning that many (most?) good films benefit from collaboration (script doctoring is not at all uncommon, and production desgners often exceed even the director's vision).

But I personally feel that in the case of the first Star Wars film, this was a "make or break" issue - that the film was absoluelty dependent on the high caliber input of mulitple players.

Or in other words, it was a house of cards. If any one of a number of these "cards" would have been withdrawn, it would have (or at least likely may have) collapsed.
--Imagine the film as is, but without JW's score
--Or if the effects were hokey (and ILM barely made it; they had a rough time getting in gear)
--Or if Ben Burt's sound effects weren't there (and though Burt was involved early to collect sound elements, I don't believe he was "officially" called upon for sound editing until late in the game)

I concede that stating that if just one of these elements were replaced by something mediocre that the film would have fallen flat is a tad extreme, but you all know what I mean.

Or, to have fun, combine just two of these elements in your "extraction exercise". Say the opening sequence for example. Imagine average effects at best, without the classic music. One of the best (if not THE best) film opeings we know, would have likely been forgettable.

 

[Solo4114]

Absolutely agree here. It's the combination of factors that makes ANH such a great film. And yes, Lucas was at least partially responsible for overseeing it all, but I think after the first film, folks pretty much adopted the attitude that he was this incredible auteur that did ALL of this himself. The legend became that he and he alone was responsible for what we all fell in love with. I think at a certain point, maybe he started to beleive that. Or worse, maybe he NEVER believed it, but still wanted to prove himself. End result: TPM. Totally unfettered, free-form George.

 

[PHArchivist]

End result: TPM. Totally unfettered, free-form George.

Directly in league with Radioland Murders...

 

[Howard]

Someone needs to get this on a T shirt:

"A special effect without a story is a really boring thing."

Gentlemen, start your graphic programmes.

 

[Treadwell]

Well, if you do, the quote is "pretty" boring, not "really".

 

[Solo4114]

Close enough.

 

[PHArchivist]

This is interesting... Perhaps the Yin for the Yang that is Rinzler's book. Not authorized by LFL. Have you guys heard of it? I had not until just today...

The Secret History of Star Wars

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/index.html

 

[nickytea]

I read that book. Some interesting facts buried in very poorly written commentary.

 

[PHArchivist]

I read that book. Some interesting facts buried in very poorly written commentary.

Yeah - I read through some of his articles. Lots of 'round and 'round, long winded extrapolations laced with presumption and less-than-concrete conclusions. Seems could be tightened up a bit.

 

[Solo4114]

Yeah - I read through some of his articles. Lots of 'round and 'round, long winded extrapolations laced with presumption and less-than-concrete conclusions. Seems could be tightened up a bit.

That sounds like a familiar structure but I just can't place it....

 

[Jumpin Jax]

That sounds like a familiar structure but I just can't place it....

Ba-Zing.

 

[Commander Max]

Yeah, and interestingly, I think that the behind the scenes stuff helped create the "Cult of Lucas" as well as contribute to the inevitable backlash when he failed to deliver with the PT.
...

So, in the end, fans end up putting Lucas -- unfairly, I think -- on a pedestal and assuming that he can crap gold. Which, of course, was never true in the first place. The reason the originals worked well is that the creative team around him helped reign him in, and in the face of his limitations, he could only put the BEST ideas up on the screen instead of ALL his ideas....

I think SW came early enough in GL career where he was young and a little unsure, so he listened more to the people around him. And it was pure luck that it came together the way it did. I do think it was very smart of him to have others direct ESB, & ROTJ. It's to bad he didn't continue that trend, PM could have been a much better movie with somebody else at the helm.
Plus he had to work to get SW done, he had to deal with all kinds of stuff to get that movie made. When ever I saw him in the making of stuff for PM, he was being driven around in a golf cart(real stressful there).

It's a real shame that people put him on a pedestal, I think it did more to ruin the prequels than anything else. After all of the years of people telling how great he is, will eventually sink in. Of course he then makes a fool out himself thinking he can recreate the magic of SW. They were expecting big things from that movie, look at how much merchandise they put out. When that went flat they didn't make that mistake again.

"Crap Gold", that has some gag gift possibilities, just serve it on a paper plate. :lol

Starcrash, basically.

I was thinking the same thing.
But David has better hair than Harrison. :lol

 

[blewis17]

If you want the answer, read Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays and The Making of Star Wars.

Combined, these two books offer wonderful (and often scary) insight to GLs unbridled and wacky ideas.

... and also Empire Building, another must-read.

 

[blewis17]

Look, remember how "Star Wars" was REALLY envisioned by Lucas as a 9 part saga, which he then cut up into thirds, but it was still too long, so he took the middle trilogy and cut it up into three films?

Or so the myth has oft been repeated, but Lucas denies that there was ever really a 9-part story.

What you have with the prequel trilogy is this: Lucas has ALL the money, power, and prestige to cram an entire saga into individual films. To do what he originally intended over 30 years ago.

His limitations with the OT made them better, more concise stories; whereas his vast resources and total control with the PT, where he could squeeze in every idea in his head, made them a muddled mess.