Origins of the AA/SDS Armor

[KarlBud420]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 5 2006, 11:04 AM
You know what would help clear the air about all this TE/GF/Gino stuff????  If someone could show us all explicit pics of the TE suit (every single piece),  show us the resulting "unaltered" armor pieces and then show us the alterations TE made before passing on to GF/Gino...or whomever............and then show us pics of what GF altered if any.......same for Gino.    I'd personally like to see how different an ANH suit of armor is to a ROTJ suit of armor while we're on the subject.    We could all draw a number of conclusions about all this supposedly "uber-accurate" fan made armor and how the SDS compares to what.  That would give us the very best idea where each SDS piece comes from. 

I suggest this because there are too many discrepancies in the "descriptions of the alterations from each individual involved"    I want to see some good descriptive photographs.    I'm not insinuating that anyone is lying.........I'm just saying that all parties seem to "contradict" certain points and photos would clarify considerably.   

TE, GF and Gino each "sold" their armor as being screen accurate at one time or another and I think it's healthy to see just how "different" these details are from a real screen suit.  We know the TE suit exists, so it shouldn't be that hard.  If the new "owner" of the TE screen suit,  doesn't want to be identified...perhaps he or she will simply send the photos we need to someone he or she trusts (like the person they got the suit from)...

Peace,

Dave

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Yes. Let's all do more research for AA so that he can improve his product even more. It seems likely that he changed or modified his molds based on the photographs in this thread, why not give him more reference to work with? :rolleyes

 

[vaderdarth]

Originally posted by KarlBud420+Jan 5 2006, 11:13 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KarlBud420 @ Jan 5 2006, 11:13 AM)</div>

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@Jan 5 2006, 11:04 AM
You know what would help clear the air about all this TE/GF/Gino stuff????   If someone could show us all explicit pics of the TE suit (every single piece),   show us the resulting "unaltered" armor pieces and then show us the alterations TE made before passing on to GF/Gino...or whomever............and then show us pics of what GF altered if any.......same for Gino.    I'd personally like to see how different an ANH suit of armor is to a ROTJ suit of armor while we're on the subject.    We could all draw a number of conclusions about all this supposedly "uber-accurate" fan made armor and how the SDS compares to what.  That would give us the very best idea where each SDS piece comes from. 

I suggest this because there are too many discrepancies in the "descriptions of the alterations from each individual involved"    I want to see some good descriptive photographs.    I'm not insinuating that anyone is lying.........I'm just saying that all parties seem to "contradict" certain points and photos would clarify considerably.   

TE, GF and Gino each "sold" their armor as being screen accurate at one time or another and I think it's healthy to see just how "different" these details are from a real screen suit.  We know the TE suit exists, so it shouldn't be that hard.  If the new "owner" of the TE screen suit,  doesn't want to be identified...perhaps he or she will simply send the photos we need to someone he or she trusts (like the person they got the suit from)...

Peace,

Dave

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Yes. Let's all do more research for AA so that he can improve his product even more. It seems likely that he changed or modified his molds based on the photographs in this thread, why not give him more reference to work with? :rolleyes

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So you want to just stick your head in the sand in the event that Andrew Ainsworth is reading this thread??? Forget that.......there is far too much information to be gleaned from this research. If you are afraid these details will change your mind.........maybe this sort of thread is not for you. The topic starter Jeezycreezy is all for research. The more info we can get the better off both sides of the discussion will be. I think it's quite pertinent for all members to be able to evaluate every single make and maker of armor in these discussions............especially since these makers are stating pretty bold claims about another maker's armor.

No I don't believe any of the SDS haters will actually come thru with the information we really need, but it doesn't hurt to ask. If they truly believe what they are saying and selling is on the up and up..............there is no reason why they wouldn't provide this information to us. They don't have to tell us their "hidden tell tale signatures", but the major changes shouldn't be that difficult to divulge to us. Know what I mean???

 

[RKW]

Do I take it Vaderdarth that you are still convinced that the SDS ab plate came from an original ANH mold?

There is certainly one feature you will see on an original ANH ab plate and I have so far only seen it replicated on ANHtroopers armour and it's to do with the vertical strip of four buttons. Behind that strip of plastic that has the four buttons the protrusion of plastic that supports it is actually divided into two columns on atleast one end.

AA take note. You know if we can get it tailor made to meet our accuracy requirements then it might be worth buying in the end

 

[vaderdarth]

RKW, I'm still riding the fence on the entire AB section. I'm positive about other parts of the suit, however. If it were an original buck that had extensive damage or reworking done........who's to say what got totally resuclpted for ease of vacforming??? Still, I'm still investigating as are others. Too early to tell on this piece. I know it doesn't match my own GF. and GH has stated there are vast differences in his SDS/GF abdomen.......as well as similarities seen on all suits including screen shots. My real question on the AB is precisely how much of the real suit AB got transferred to the TE/GF/Gino suits??? We might expect a great many features to match.

Peace,

Dave

 

[RKW]

It contains the same mistakes as found on the GF/TE abplates. That's all you really need to know.

 

[vaderdarth]

I've listed what I really need to know.

 

[Ghost Host]

No sir, got all that proof locked down, black and white (and in color.)... What would it help to see an original Vader helmet anyway? The claim was from a tour helmet. You sure you know what you're talking about?

Originally posted by exoray@Jan 5 2006, 06:45 AM
And I would like to see an original Vader helmet before the Vader guys claim recasting...  Kind of a double standard isn't it?

 

[HDPE]

Hello.

I'm not sure this will help(diff angle etc..) but here are some quick pics of my TE ROTJ right knee.

Tks WC

 

[RKW]

Originally posted by Ghost Host+Jan 5 2006, 04:00 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ghost Host @ Jan 5 2006, 04:00 PM)</div>

No sir, got all that proof locked down, black and white (and in color.)...  What would it help to see an original Vader helmet anyway?  The claim was from a tour helmet.  You sure you know what you're talking about?

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@Jan 5 2006, 06:45 AM
And I would like to see an original Vader helmet before the Vader guys claim recasting...  Kind of a double standard isn't it?

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Ghosthost, we have been waiting years for you to post just one photo, colour or B&W showing your helmet used in an official capacity. But I suggest you post it in another thread so not to hijack this one.

Vaderdarth, this thread is not about comparing how accurate the TE/GF/Gino/AP suits are to an original ANH but instead determining the origin of the SDS suit. I suggest starting another thread if you want those kind of comparisons.

 

[jeezycreezy]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 5 2006, 03:20 PM
The topic starter Jeezycreezy is all for research.

Hey. That's me. And that's true. HOWEVER...

I'm not all that interested in studying the TE-derivative suits to be honest.

I think we all know the scoop on those, and any specific alterations done thereafter would be better suited to another thread.

I am more interested in researching the actual armour than any replicas made.

That said, I am focusing on this particular replica in this thread because it was made by the same chap who made the originals.


I'm basically looking for one of two things:

1) Is any given component from an original mould?

and

2) If not, then what is the source for that mould?.

That's it.


Now, having said that, if you think a specific element of the SDS suit has its origins in a specific armor makers component, then by all means post/analyze that.

Otherwise please don't bring other armor makers into it; it's not germane to the issue at hand and will only add to the clutter of this inexorably massive thread.

Also, I think a better approach on the part of the "pro original moulds camp" (or whatever you want to call it) would be to use the vast amounts of reference material you have at your fingertips to prove where you see similarities between the SDS and the originals, rather than to argue where others see differences.

Finally, while I appreciate that some people are trying to keep things fair and balanced in their defense of AA, I would respectfully ask EVERYONE to please continue with a renewed focus on points one and two, thanks.

Cheers.
TJ

 

[jeezycreezy]

This thread has just been designated a Darth Vader Free Zone.

Please take it to PMs. Thanks.

 

[Ghost Host]

Hijack? Talk to Exoray. Pointing out his Vader statement holds no ground here... I'd say I've been more on topic than most others in this thread.

Years? c'mon... :rolleyes and you are going even more off topic "official capacity"? If I didn't know better I'd say I was hearing from Phil ...besides my info is not for YOUR consumption. Mods only.

Frankly since accusations of SDS recasting has been pointed at any and all other "screen accurate" knock offs out there, comparisons with as many as possible is a must. If you can't see that, I can't help you understand it. But it would add to the discussion.

Originally posted by RKW@Jan 5 2006, 09:49 AM
Ghosthost, we have been waiting years for you to post just one photo, colour or B&W showing your helmet used in an official capacity. But I suggest you post it in another thread so not to hijack this one.

Vaderdarth, this thread is not about comparing how accurate the TE/GF/Gino/AP suits are to an original ANH but instead determining the origin of the SDS suit. I suggest starting another thread if you want those kind of comparisons.

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[edit] Oops, ok sorry Jeezy.

 

[troopermaster]

I really don't care if you like it or not, ANH Trooper. Although I find your tone insulting, as I now happen to believe it is unlikely that the SDS suit is derived from the GF. In person it was just clear as day. Before I took the pics I was thinking it was likely recast, even my friends could tell you this is what I was thinking... but now I would be surprised to find that true. I respect you as an artist but your attitude stinks. So why would you insult me for believing this? Not cool "buddy". :rolleyes

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[/quote]

GH,

I have never once said that I don't like the SDS armour,I don't know what gave you that impression.I was stating the fact that the SDS armour is recast from a TE/GF.All the comparison pics clearly show this even though AA has altered the moulds to disguise the fact.

And no need to have a dig at my pic either.It was late and I was very tired and couldn't be bothered to mess with it,but as you can see from HDPE's pic SDS right knee matches TE's perfectly.

 

[Ghost Host]

ANH Trooper, maybe I misunderstood you. Sorry.

 

[vaderdarth]

Jeezy, I beg to differ, because in order to substantiate any claims SDS may make about parts of his armor having original moulds as a source, we need to have as much info about all armors concerned. If he possible used other suits to recast if we can't prove it was a GF per se..........then the other suits become pertinent. A screen suit is pertient in any case, because that is part of his claim to begin with. At least see it from my perspective.

Dave

 

[jeezycreezy]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 5 2006, 06:47 PM
Jeezy,  I beg to differ,

That's your right.

But in the same way that you would defend a person's show off thread against criticism, so too must you respect that this is my thread and that affords me a modicum of editorial control over the kind of input I am looking for.

There is room for flexibility here, but this thread is bloated enough as it is; I'm just trying to streamline things a bit.

I would offer as a compromise that you start a new thread pursuing the line of investigation you mention. I'm all for it. I think it might help. I just don't think this is the place for it.

Should anything relevant come out of it that applies to what I am after, you can always cross reference it to this thread.

Thanks for your understanding.

Cheers.
TJ

 

[vaderdarth]

Originally posted by jeezycreezy+Jan 5 2006, 03:37 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeezycreezy @ Jan 5 2006, 03:37 PM)</div>

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@Jan 5 2006, 06:47 PM
Jeezy,  I beg to differ,

That's your right.

But in the same way that you would defend a person's show off thread against criticism, so too must you respect that this is my thread and that affords me a modicum of editorial control over the kind of input I am looking for.

There is room for flexibility here, but this thread is bloated enough as it is; I'm just trying to streamline things a bit.

I would offer as a compromise that you start a new thread pursuing the line of investigation you mention. I'm all for it. I think it might help. I just don't think this is the place for it.

Should anything relevant come out of it that applies to what I am after, you can always cross reference it to this thread.

Thanks for your understanding.

Cheers.
TJ

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If that's the way you feel Jeezy, I will refrain from posting in YOUR thread any further. I'm truly sorry you feel that way. So much for pursuit of the "whole" truth, eh???

Peace,

Dave

 

[jeezycreezy]

Thanks for your understanding.

I'm sorry if you see it as censorship.

I'm just trying to pull the reigns in on a thread that is getting a little out of hand.

I hope your thread is a success and very much hope you return any applicable findings here.

Cheers.
TJ

 

[lambotour]

Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 5 2006, 10:50 AM
Did I attack Gino???  I must have missed that. 

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Sorry Dave, it was meant as a general statement. I wasn't implying you specifically.

Sorry for the hijack, now back on topic.

 

[OldKen]

well, while i applaud your drive and enthusiasm towards maintaining a controlled evnviroment for a civil discusion, i must remind you that any mention of...

AA/SDS, stormtroopers, STs, or TKs in the title of your thread...

and its gonna get out of hand.

to tell you the truth, after seeing pics from TE sent to here via another member and GF himself stepping in to tell us his opinion... i dont think there is any convincing the AA/SDS supporters that AA has done anything wrong. they just wont accept it.

so is there even a point in continuing??? probably not... but what the heck right???

i too wish we could find the exact truth about the origin of ALL the SDS armor pieces... i just find it highly unlikely that it can be proven beyond what it already has.


the thing i dont get is why doesnt one of AAs buddies get some real defense other than saying they dont see what the rest of us see...

surely there are people here with info or pics of what andrew really has... :rolleyes