original ending for Return of the Jedi ? HUH?

[nwjedidave]

Anyone else heard this before? If there is another link here feel free to delete this post.

The original ending of Return of the Jedi is incredibly hokey, but there is a poignant scene where Luke burns his dad's body and you could feel his tension and anger. None of this was supposed to happen according to this 2010 LA Times article:

"We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. "Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy...
The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone "like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns," as Kurtz put it.


This is where story and solid plot development separate from building a franchise designed to sell toys. It's widely known that Lucas favored toy sales over character and storyline. Again, from Kurtz:
I could see where things were headed," Kurtz said. "The toy business began to drive the [Lucasfilm] empire. It's a shame. They make three times as much on toys as they do on films. It's natural to make decisions that protect the toy business, but that's not the best thing for making quality films.
The first film and Empire were about story and character, but I could see that George's priorities were changing.

full story here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-c...wars_b_8392698.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

Just can't let sleeping dogs lie, huh?

 

[Solo4114]

This has come up before, although I forget where/when. Basically, it's known that Kurtz had a very different vision of the series than Lucas did, at least initially. But hey, we got what we got.

 

[nwjedidave]

Just can't let sleeping dogs lie, huh?

I have never seen this before. Or I just wasn't paying attention!! LOL

 

[Edraven99]

The other thing is that you can't really end on a "bummer"... artistic licenses aside... apparently audiences hate them...

Case in point STII: TWoK... if you watch the the interviews with Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer on the DVD extras, they had to re-write the ending to insert the whole photon tube soft-landing on the Genesis planet thing because they found out during the audience tests that the test audience hated the ending... it was too depressing.

So despite Meyer's protests, they re-wrote and re-shot the ending to give it "more hope"... and an out in case Leonard Nimoy changed his mind about playing Spock... which of course he obviously did....

 

[Wolfsburg]

The Kurtz ending could've been as poignant as the Lucas ending is sappy, but whatever. I'm fuzzy on the details now but as I recall Lucas made some comments early in ROTJ's development essentially stating that audiences just wanted a fun popcorn movie that they didn't have to think too much about and I believe that sort of thinking is what led Kurtz to departing. A real shame. I think Kurtz, Kershner and Kasdan were primarily why TESB was so good.

 

[Solo4114]

I think it's like your legendary pop groups. Sting on his own is kind of an overblown self-satisfied *******. Sting with Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers has limits on him that force the creation of great music. Lennon on his own gets preachy. McCartney on his own gets silly and pointless. Lennon and McCartney together make some of the greatest pop music ever written.

You need balance, ultimately. Lest we think that Kurtz unleashed would've resulted in a perfect film, look no further than what happened with Lucas unleashed and Ep. I. Extremes in either direction can be too much. Lucas brings the "fun," Kurtz brings the "meaning." Paired together, and in the right proportions, they work like gangbusters. Lucas on his own, free to indulge every notion of "fun" he dreams up...not exactly perfection.

 

[astroboy]

The end of jedi is pretty good. The music is tough, but the rest of it is good.

The series starts with "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"

And basically ends with "and they lived happily ever after"

I can buy all that. It's a fairy tale.

It's one of the reasons I have a hard time following that trilogy with a new one. In my mind, you're not supposed to explore "and they lived happily ever after"

 

[Krull]

The end of jedi is pretty good. The music is tough, but the rest of it is good.

The series starts with "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"

And basically ends with "and they lived happily ever after"

I can buy all that. It's a fairy tale.

It's one of the reasons I have a hard time following that trilogy with a new one. In my mind, you're not supposed to explore "and they lived happily ever after"

Which I hate,and which is why I like the new film as it's more realistic with how things went down.

 

[drcraig13]

I get both points about wanting to see what did happen but also not wanting to bother with a good ending. But let's face it Disney owns this now and they can't leave well enough alone. I mean they have a sequel for Cinderella, Little Mermaid, Mulan etc. and these are the people that practically invented "Happily ever After".

 

[Solo4114]

See, the problem with mixing "happily ever after" and "realistic" is the following exchange.


"With one stroke, the dragon was slain, and Sir Valiant rescued the princess. They were married in a big wedding by the king, and they lived happily ever after."

"And then what happened?"

"Nothing. They died. Go to bed."

 

[Edraven99]

See, the problem with mixing "happily ever after" and "realistic" is the following exchange.


"With one stroke, the dragon was slain, and Sir Valiant rescued the princess. They were married in a big wedding by the king, and they lived happily ever after."

"And then what happened?"

"Nothing. They died. Go to bed."

Exactly... or you get "Man of Steel"

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

See, the problem with mixing "happily ever after" and "realistic" is the following exchange.


"With one stroke, the dragon was slain, and Sir Valiant rescued the princess. They were married in a big wedding by the king, and they lived happily ever after."

"And then what happened?"

"Nothing. They died. Go to bed."

You've said too many things I liked today.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

The only thing you could consider wrong with the ending is the dancing Ewoks. Luke watching Vader's armor burn is a really good ending.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Definitely. I just never cared for the Ewok BBQ and the cheesy group shot at the end.

 

[astroboy]

Definitely. I just never cared for the Ewok BBQ and the cheesy group shot at the end.

But again, that was a style. All three movies ended with a curtain call

 

[DINVADER]

I liked how it ended, as the were going to be no new films for a long time. Why end on a downer for the hell of it? Especially in the early 80s. These are differing opinions, but Kurtz acts like it's a scientific fact it would be a better movie. That's all subjective to the individuals opinion, not fact.

 

[Wolfsburg]

But again, that was a style. All three movies ended with a curtain call

Only ANH did, and it made sense in the context. ROTJ's final shot looked like they were posing for a class photo or something. An ending can be poignant and emotional without being a downer. That would've been far more appropriate in my book. If it had ended with some extended variation of the funeral pyre scene (maybe with the Force ghosts making an appearance) and a slow pan up to the stars with an emotional swell of music and then credits, I would've been just fine with that.

 

[batguy]

The tone of ANH isn't very dark. But it's good.

AOTC & ROTS are much darker. But they're not as good, dramatically speaking.



ROTJ should have been better - not darker.

 

[Vacformedhero]

The only thing you could consider wrong with the ending is the dancing Ewoks. Luke watching Vader's armor burn is a really good ending.

Wasn't there also the thought that Luke would put on Vader helmet at the end of ROJ, this was bandied about early on in the story development .......would have been a real killer ending, better than Empire NNNNOOOOO twist ..........as it kid it would have been brutal , but now I would have loved that
The Circle Is Now Complete !

it might have prevented Luke from hiding in a Irish stone cave from the rest of the universe , he could have been Sithing the S*** out of the Galaxy