OK, so which one of you is Guy Raz?

[Eaglewood]

So let me get this straight--If someone--anyone here gets one of these--be it original or possibly--just possibly one of these pieces, does NEW CAD drawings, manufactures a part that will more than likely be the exact same part that I put up here and offers it up on the RPF here for all and says that they designed and manufactured it themselves, then it will be ok?

I am NOT trying to add any fuel to this fire at all. PLEASE PLEASE dont take it that way.I am just trying to understand to be certain.
This project with no connection to GR would be fine--right??

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

That seems fairly reasonable, at least to me. It's not like he has the last surviving flash hider. The harder part, and take it how you will, will be someone who had ties with the original product starting a new run, with alledgedly new CAD drawings and such.

 

[Eaglewood]

That seems fairly reasonable, at least to me. It's not like he has the last surviving flash hider. The harder part, and take it how you will, will be someone who had ties with the original product starting a new run, with alledgedly new CAD drawings and such.

I know who has and have access to an original part. I have the capabilities to reverse engineer the part and machine it --obviously.

I guess what I am asking--IF and this is a really big IF--I were to do this would the interest be there and could we not bring up all the stuff that would inevitably float to the surface that GR was still involved? He would absolutely have no part in this whatsoever if I were to do it this way. Sure--it will be a pain in the ass--but I would be willing to do this with the cooperation of people like say MicDavis who says he can machine the parts.--then it will be a true "community" project.
I guess the problem I would have is going through all the trouble of creating the files from scratch, and then giving them out. At that point ANYONE could start putting these up and then who knows who would be involved. Possibly the person machining them at that point is a convicted rapist and we dont know it--then what happens when we find that out? See where I am going with this??
How do we decide where to draw the line? I totally understand the feelings toward GR--no problems there-- it is a "proven fact" but what I do have trouble with is the fact that we just DONT KNOW what goes on with these projects--any of them and who is involved. Ignorance is Bliss until knowledge comes in.

Probably better if I just stay completely away from this one anyway and move on to other things that have NO connection with anyone. Its not worth going thru all this again. I will see you all in the future sometime-- Be well all.
I harbor NO ill feelings toward anyone here at all.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Probably better if I just stay completely away from this one anyway and move on to other things that have NO connection with anyone. Its not worth going thru all this again. I will see you all in the future sometime-- Be well all.
I harbor NO ill feelings toward anyone here at all.

That was what I was trying to say, in my beat-around-the-bush style.

 

[Darkknight0667]

I'll gladly re-engineer the whole thing from scratch if someone will point me to the MG-81 guys.

With my recent move I have a real size professional lathe and mill at my disposal.

I could even make them without taking 3 freakin' years. heck, I've already made them in the past with whatever dims were I came up with at the time.

With all due respect, Mike (of which there is actually none), stop being a vulture praying on the carcass of this project (for the second time, no less!) and giving people false hopes.


Just a quick thought to enlighten those who might think for a second that micdavis can be the savior of this project:

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=23554

If he had trouble getting this fairly simple machining project done - the only one in his illustrious prop replication portfolio, as far as his Junkyard thread history demonstrates, how does he expect to get these complex suppressors made as well and as affordably as Clay has? This is not something that can be carved on a home mill (at least not to make one capable of live-fire as Clay’s was). You’d need to find a machinist with a 5-axis CNC mill and live tooling willing to take on a run this small (not an easy task – hence the nearly almost 2-year delay since I took the project on).

For quite some time, primarily at propcircle, micdavis has attempted to undermine my handling of the project and to incite others to as well:

http://www.propcircle.com/showthread.php?t=154&highlight=mg81

I'll leave it to the members here to judge micdavis' character and machining capabilities.

 

[micdavis]

:lol :rolleyes

The members that aren't blinded by the T4BB filter are probably well aware of my capabilities.

All I want to do is get these parts done. No other agenda. No other reason.

And that part is not at all difficult to machine. I've done them before.

 

[Eaglewood]

:lol :rolleyes



All I want to do is get these parts done. No other agenda. No other reason.

Funny--thats what my agenda was:unsure

 

[SithLord]

I haven't been around much but all I can say about this thread is wow.

What follows is just my frank personal opinion so take it as you wish.

GR deserves to be locked up for life for what he did as far as I am concerned. If there was a project that in any way continued his work, I would be surprised if anyone here supported that. The problem regardless is that no one will know to what extent GR is or is not associated with the project. This goes way beyond a simple matter of a banning from a forum. How many criminals are already on the forum? Who knows, but we do know about GR and this is a forum where everyone of all ages should be able to come and not worry about a psychopath. If someone here knows GR still or works with him, that's not a bannable offense, but that certainly places a lot of scrutiny on that member and whether or not they can be trusted, and their actions here should be carefully measured. But if that same member is promoting something GR started or is involved in, they should not be permitted to use the RPF as a forum for that project and take it elsewhere or off the forum. So, if I had any say, that's what I would say. :unsure

 

[TheDisturbance]

I haven't been around much but all I can say about this thread is wow.

What follows is just my frank personal opinion so take it as you wish.

GR deserves to be locked up for life for what he did as far as I am concerned. If there was a project that in any way continued his work, I would be surprised if anyone here supported that. The problem regardless is that no one will know to what extent GR is or is not associated with the project. This goes way beyond a simple matter of a banning from a forum. How many criminals are already on the forum? Who knows, but we do know about GR and this is a forum where everyone of all ages should be able to come and not worry about a psychopath. If someone here knows GR still or works with him, that's not a bannable offense, but that certainly places a lot of scrutiny on that member and whether or not they can be trusted, and their actions here should be carefully measured. But if that same member is promoting something GR started or is involved in, they should not be permitted to use the RPF as a forum for that project and take it elsewhere or off the forum. So, if I had any say, that's what I would say. :unsure

Yeah, I agree. I find it sad that one would hold a higher accuracy standard to a prop, but their moral standard falls short. I can see how one would think that the part is going to essentially come out the same so it doesn't really matter who's involved. I can see how one would think that, but it's wrong thinking. Moral thinking, NOT engineering or business thinking needed to take over. We're not use to doing that because here because we're use to the danger level being very low on this forum. The second danger approaches you need to think fast. The thought of "we just won't pay this guy and it will be alright." We'll just give him two pieces. (Sea shells had monitary value at one point.) What if you find out he used just one of those two pieces to lure another victim. I know I would feel horrible if I was somehow invovled in providing those two pieces. Toys are just as luring as candy to kids. Guy could say he got them from the RPF and make us all look like idots. I feel weird just thinking about it. Don't be shocked if Guy Raz has thought about that. Don't think you can outsmart a dangerous man because you are aware he's dangerous. To outsmart a dangerous man is to treat it like any other dangerous situation stay away, get away, run away.

I'd rather have an inaccurate, super late piece then to know that a pedophile hands were involved in it's making. To those involved with the project I don't mean to judge. I just think we need to pur our guard up a little more. To protect each other. Especially the innocent. We're all human and make mistakes. From reading this thread I can see everybody that was involved with the project was open to morally and deeply think about the situation. But be very aware someone like Guy Raz doesn't think the same way you do. He's thinking how am I going to make these guys drop their guard and make them my victims from afar. It didn't take him much thought at all using the same tools and tactics to lure his other victims.

Look at this situation through a childs eyes. They learn trust through association. If they see their parents associating with bad guys they either will think bad guys know mom and dad and are cool. Or parents are stuppid. The latter thinking takes place at a time known as adolescence.

Just food for thought.

 

[Boba Debt]

It's not like he has the last surviving flash hider.

I spoke in depth with a person that had an extensive collection of MG-81 parts and guns and had access to most of the know parts available.

The flash hider Raz borrowed was without a doubt the finest example of this part available, to think there are a bunch of these just laying around to be made available to us is a ridiculous notion.




Clay, I understand that you would like to stay clear of this project. If you want to send me the info about the source of the hider I will contact them and then, depending on thier demenor, I will consider doing a run.

If I do the run it will be an At Cost Project, full payment up front, single run, with no second chances.

 

[MattMunson]

You’d need to find a machinist with a 5-axis CNC mill and live tooling.

Just out of curiosity, strictly from an engineering perspective, how can this be true? I'm confident the german war machine did not have that technology available to them, yet the managed to cobble together a few of those things

In looking at the part myself, it would actually be quite simple to make with very rudimentary tools. But, it would take a good chunk of time and effort to bang out 50 of them.

With THAT said, I'd like to encourage discussion of the flash hider, and new attempts at the project to be moved to another thread. It's such a captivating topic, that even *I* find myself sucked into the discussion of it! But I'd like to keep this thread quasi-focused on the issue at hand.

OR

if the thread has indeed run its course, and there is no further contribution to be made by users, then I would encourage the mods to close it. I'd love to claim that it's the duty of every RPF member to educate themselves about who is on this board, I don't think that's the case. This thread has revealed that there are tons of people on the forum who not only have never heard of Guy Raz, but of course did not know he was involved in active prop projects. So I think it has done good. But if the thread disappears, what happens to new users that start visiting next week, when the thread is on page three??

 

[Vaderman]

I'd like to see this continue with the original goal of warning people and perhaps discovering the SP of the psycho sicko.

Damn shame he has to tarnish a perfectly good first name though.
*******.

Thanks Matt, for bringing this to light.

So where is the thread on who Perite was?
And where is that scorecard?

 

[Darkknight0667]

Just out of curiosity, strictly from an engineering perspective, how can this be true? I'm confident the German war machine did not have that technology available to them, yet they managed to cobble together a few of those things

In looking at the part myself, it would actually be quite simple to make with very rudimentary tools. But, it would take a good chunk of time and effort to bang out 50 of them.

You're absolutely right, Matt. What I should have written was that you'd need that kind of equipment to produce these at the price point we were all looking to hit. The "good chunk of time and effort" you mention needing to make these with "rudimentary tools", at today's labor rates, would push the cost far beyond what everyone was looking for.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

I spoke in depth with a person that had an extensive collection of MG-81 parts and guns and had access to most of the know parts available.

The flash hider Raz borrowed was without a doubt the finest example of this part available, to think there are a bunch of these just laying around to be made available to us is a ridiculous notion.

I never said "a bunch". There has to be more than one is my point. It may well be hard to find another flash supressor, but NOT impossible.

 

[Blad]

I spoke in depth with a person that had an extensive collection of MG-81 parts and guns and had access to most of the know parts available.

The flash hider Raz borrowed was without a doubt the finest example of this part available, to think there are a bunch of these just laying around to be made available to us is a ridiculous notion.
quote]

There are 5 at my local Occupation Museum (4 as part of a AA gun) and 2 on the Direction Finder Tower complex at the end of my road, not difficult to find WW2 German Equipment when your Island was Occupied by the Germans.

 

[PHArchivist]

There are 5 at my local Occupation Museum (4 as part of a AA gun) and 2 on the Direction Finder Tower complex

Math was not your favorite subject, was it!?

 

[micdavis]

It's British math, like putting a "u" in color. :lol

 

[LeMarchand]

Nah, Americans just can't read properly....

There are 5 in total at the museum of which 4 are on an AA gun, and 2 additonal ones in a seperate place, the tower complex. No math in that sentence, but it would make 7 in total.



Marc

 

[rollerboi]

On a semi-related note, my wife and I watched Face/Off last night. Remember the scene where Nicholas Cage is prancing around in a priest's robe, then flirts with the teenaged choir member?

My wife turns to me and says, "He looks like SUCH a child molester."

 

[Darbycrash]

Let me repost what I put up earlier since the flash hider interest posting seemed to bury it.


This thread has so digressed let me lay out the facts here:

Munson start's a thread out of concern that Guy Raz is still on the RPF.

Raz besides his criminal conviction has shown some pretty scarey sociopathic tendencies.

Anyone that would take a lot of time to establish themselves as a different person to rejoin this hobby is a very scary and dangerous individual. The constant need to be involved with this board and projects is consistant with the profile of a stalker.

Read the post on the OT that he posted about MM.This should give you a good idea of the kind of things he thinks about.

Professionally I have worked on cases dealing with cyberstalkers and other dangerous individuals. By moving forward with a project that had his cad drawings it helped give him the validation he is looking for. Believe me it's not money that he wanted.

Even all these posts about him and the in fighting that is going on I guarantee he is loving it. Guys wake up this man is quite good and played many of you like a fiddle.

He definitely got a good body count this run that's for sure