non guns...how do they work
- Thread starter saberMaN
- Start date
KingNothing
Well-Known Member
From what I know it's just that, a small squib in the end of the barrel that uses an electrical charge. Although for multiples I'm not 100% sure. robstyle might have a clue...
Jedi2016
Sr Member
Depends on the production.. I think most movies and TV shows use blank-firing guns, which can't fire real bullets but are otherwise fully functional. I don't know the specifics, but I think the chamber is different so as to accomodate only blanks, and I think the barrel is partially blocked to prevent large debris from exiting the barrel.
Noeland
Master Member
Semi auto blank guns have a barrel insert that makes makes the vent teeny tiny so there is enough back pressure to cycle the slide. Revolvers are just revolvers loaded with blanks.
But the OP is asking about flashcap guns. Here is a site that carries them, and even has a little video comparing them with blanks being fired.
http://www.issprops.com/Weapons/NonGuns.aspx
Personally, I don't think there is any comparison in terms of what looks "real".
But the OP is asking about flashcap guns. Here is a site that carries them, and even has a little video comparing them with blanks being fired.
http://www.issprops.com/Weapons/NonGuns.aspx
Personally, I don't think there is any comparison in terms of what looks "real".
I've used some of the ISS non-guns before. They don't look very convincing close-up. Pretty ingenious designs though. They're entirely custom-made devices. The entire front end of the gun comes off revealing a hollow chamber with maybe a dozen or so slots inside to insert the flash caps. I'm sure the number of slots depends on the gun model. An electric charge detonates them sequentially, so you can fire multiple rounds in a scene. The caps come in 1/4, 1/2, and full loads, I think, which create bigger flashes depending on your requirements.
Aside from the trigger, the non-guns have no moving parts, so there's no slide action, no shell ejection, etc. And there's absolutely no recoil. Blank guns have very little recoil already, but these non-guns are like firing a flashlight.
Like I said, they don't look very convincing close up, but they're very safe and make very little noise.
Aside from the trigger, the non-guns have no moving parts, so there's no slide action, no shell ejection, etc. And there's absolutely no recoil. Blank guns have very little recoil already, but these non-guns are like firing a flashlight.
Like I said, they don't look very convincing close up, but they're very safe and make very little noise.
pennausamike
Sr Member
Another type of non-gun that can fire is the "plug-fire" blank gun.
For these, the "bullet" and "shell case" are one solid piece and a "cap" or "primer" is placed in the front of the "bullet".
The firing pin is in the barrel.
As the bolt drives the "bullet/shell" forward in an open bolt gun,
or hammer strikes the back of the "bullet/shell" (in a closed bolt gun),
driving it forward, the "primer" strikes the barrel mounted firing pin.
The small charge in the primer has enough force to drive the action back.
A quick Google of Marushin MP-40, a plug fire gun, brought up this site with videos and lots of info about plug fire model guns.
http://www.mp40modelguns.com/model_gun_videos.htm
Mike
For these, the "bullet" and "shell case" are one solid piece and a "cap" or "primer" is placed in the front of the "bullet".
The firing pin is in the barrel.
As the bolt drives the "bullet/shell" forward in an open bolt gun,
or hammer strikes the back of the "bullet/shell" (in a closed bolt gun),
driving it forward, the "primer" strikes the barrel mounted firing pin.
The small charge in the primer has enough force to drive the action back.
A quick Google of Marushin MP-40, a plug fire gun, brought up this site with videos and lots of info about plug fire model guns.
http://www.mp40modelguns.com/model_gun_videos.htm
Mike
Hehe. I also have a huge collection of these. They're called "modelguns" and they're made in Japan. They actually look very convincing close up. They have slide action, shell ejection, smoke, etc. Very cool "toys." Most of them are even licensed, so they have all the appropriate makers marks, etc. The downside is, they're really expensive, quite fragile (they won't tolerate repeated use), and you have to clean them thoroughly after every use (since they're made of soft metal and plastic, they corrode very easily after the cartridges are discharged). The muzzle flash they emit isn't so impressive, but I believe some people put magnesium in the caps to make it bigger.
KingNothing
Well-Known Member
Actually that's a bit of a misconception. Most guns in films are live real firearms. They have blank firing adaptors in them. The ones that have a plugged barrel (or "suicide gun"), don't emit the muzzle flash out the front and it comes out the action, which isn't very realistic. Plus there is only a few models of strictly made blank guns. Believe it or not but most guns are live.
That's why the armourer has a huge job on set, and security is paramount. Becuase when you have 10 guns all live and all machine guns or fully auto, that's dangerous. And that's also why no one ever points a gun at anyone on set, even while filming. And mostly why guns are rarely fired close to someone else ("pointing towards them"). When they are usually some sort of protection between actors is needed (IE plexi etc). Reno 911 uses the non guns all the time. You can tell they're fake but they're so cheap and inexpensive rentals compared to live. That's because you don't need a certified armourer on set for them.
Tiki
Active Member
Actually that's a bit of a misconception. Most guns in films are live real firearms. They have blank firing adaptors in them. The ones that have a plugged barrel (or "suicide gun"), don't emit the muzzle flash out the front and it comes out the action, which isn't very realistic. Plus there is only a few models of strictly made blank guns. Believe it or not but most guns are live.
I was just about to write the same! I'd like to add that most of the films I've worked on involved a lot of folks shooting at each other, and I've been shot at myself at very close range. Before shooting scenes like these, the prop master would show everyone involved the gun(s), we'd check the barrel, and we'd watch him load the blanks. Then the only one allowed to handle the loaded gun would be the propmaster (or his assistant) until cameras are set up and good to go. THe gun would be handed to the actor - and the shooting would start. As an added bonus I have been both squibbed and shot at with a paintball-type air gun (filled with spark and dust rounds) while the actor was shooting me. A very strange sensation indeed!
An additional note - machine guns can be extra cranky about shooting blanks. I am no gun expert - but apparently on some models there simply isn't enough force in the blank round to drive the gun's mechanics. This means lots and lots and lots and lots of takes!
Sorry - I just realized this has nothing to do with non-guns! To rectify I'll add that I saw them at a big motion-picture and TV expo in LA way back in 1995. They looked OK - but at the time I was un-impressed by the lack of blowback on the pistols. I can see how a propmaster could be drawn to them (safety benefits aside) as they were not that expensive. Gun rental is very pricey - and guns are fragile machines. I saw a prop guy have a near nervous breakdown when an actor dropped a hero rented chrome 357 on a brick floor.
Tiki
KingNothing
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, see that a lot actually.
Tiki - I just saw an actor drop one of my gold plated Colt .45 1911's on the ground. It was terrible. I died inside. BIG scratch on the slide.
Machine guns are tricky. It all depends on how good the blank firing adaptor is in them really. If it's not in right or the hole is too big or something like that, the gun just won't work. They're like those girls you see at bars, that attract all the guys, but only talk to the absolutely flawless ones.
And those dust and zirc (spark) rounds are awesome. They really make the shot look good.
