Ninth Gate Balkan Lecture Lobby Card

[Odin82]

Working from this list of German engravers. Category:German engravers - Wikipedia

Up to "D" at present with Google image search results and the names in between "_______" inverted commas. Anyone want to start with Z and work backwards, please do. Must take a break soon.

 

[MAKE BELIEVE]

Worked on these with no luck

T​

• Max Thedy
• Georg Heinrich Tischbein
• Johann Heinrich Tischbein the Younger

V​

• Henry Vianden
• Bernhard Vogel (engraver)

W​

• Master W. B.
• Heinrich Waderé
• Joseph Wagner (engraver)
• Georg Wechter
• Christoph Weigel the Elder
• Hedwig Weiß
• Michael Wening
• Johann Georg Wille
• Werner Wittig (painter)

Z​

• Matthias Zündt

 

[Odin82]

Thanks man!

I've probably ****** up just using "Google Images", as opposed to something like Alamy.net. With Alamy, it usually gives 10+ pages of results directed of that artist's work, and I assumed / hoped google images would bring up the same results, or most popular. Was worth the risk, otherwise I'd still be going through the French engravers.

This thread was started 10 years ago by someone, and would love to have it figured out / solved by the 10 year mark.

(It's kinda mentally taxing seeing so much art of some very bad things and what humanity were capable of, so I'm really thankful for the help)

 

[MAKE BELIEVE]

"S" also checked with no results

 

[Odin82]

"S" also checked with no results

We'll get there man! Soon!

Italian next, then Dutch I reckon is the way to go. Really want to solve this mystery so badly it hurts. Just to be able to walk away from it. I know I've seen this and stared the image in the face so many times before the movie was even released.

 

[Aku]

Discovery (partworks.co.uk)
Not a scan of the magazine, but you get an idea of the contents. And when check on Ebay you get a few images. Is it likely to be in these?

I've checked a couple of possible contenders based on contents. Do the covers spark any recollection, Odin??

 

[Odin82]

It may have been an issue about medicine, as I remember an old renaissance painting of doctors operating on a person and the leg skin flayed revealing the muscle, and also another image of the "Bone Saw" doctors, sawing off some poor guy's leg. Could have been part of any issue to do with the Bubonic Plague.

But the Christopher Columbus one could be it too - after all he never expected to be part of the Spanish Inquisition, but ended up in one.

It was the only really disturbing part for a kid my age, and they were all located in the same locality.

Edit: For the last couple of years I've had a niggling feeling it also could possibly be from a 70's/80's cartoon intro. Didn't want to say it in case of muddying the waters if in case it's a false memory - but my memory of that image, I can also remember the little demon imp thing under the character moving. Whether it's a faux memory or not, I can remember it maybe being yellow and moving/waddling, or could be mixing up something.

Since there are a lot of Easter Eggs in the movies, like the Shell petrol station signs, being placed randomly - an easter egg of a still image from some cartoon, I wouldn't be surprised, that I've even been checking out old cartoon intros in the hunt.

 

[Aku]

So that's what those things in the air are! All this time I thought they were three geese flying overhead

 

[Odin82]

Do you have the name of that print from the Getty Images link?

Edit: Nevermind, caught it as "Fourth Degree of torture, of the Spanish Inquisition" - Defined as: the victim is suspended in the air, with weights attached to his body, dislocating his spine and eventually breaking it.

​

So engraving search of Fourth Degree Inquisition should spark some interesting results

So the term "Squassation" is the name of the punishment, as opposed to the "strappado" (prepare for NSFW stuff if googling the latter)

 

[MAKE BELIEVE]

Odin, sorry but haven't been able to search on the remaining names
Hope to get back to it this week and help you out

 

[Odin82]

The Squassation / Strappado/Strappato/Corda punishment pulled me away from the names, and spent like two days searching for images of that punishment technique illustrations.


On a side note, my google search history over this mystery would look absolutely messed up to anyone if they ever saw. If anything happened to me, and someone saw my laptop….. the memory of me would be forever tarnished hahhaha

 

[VilleLeskinen]

I can have a look if you want, Odin82? Just tell me what to look for. I've searched with every word I could come up with on my own. I'm pretty sure those are NOT people hanging from the ceiling though.

 

[Odin82]

Yeah, I don't think so too going from my memory of seeing the image before, but I'm willing to entertain anything in the search for it and devote time to following up any lead. I remember them being like flying devils / imps, two of them:

Imp - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Originating from Germanic folklore the imp was a small lesser demon. Unlike the Christian faith and stories, demons in Germanic legends were not necessarily always evil. Imps were often mischievous rather than evil or harmful and in some regions they were attendants of the gods.

As regards the image, I know there are a lot of famous Dutch engravers.

Also, are we 100% sure Francisco Solé definitely didn't do the illustration? There's a great 30 minute documentary on youtube of him, and his amount of work is incredible. He also has done some recent Woodcut stuff for a Norwegian band too. In the documentary, it's stated that he has done so much, that when he sold his work for a magazine etc to use, he gave the original and never got them back.

I've searched a lot of the Marshall Cavendish encyclopaedias on certain topics on archive.org, as I'm sure they'd reuse images they have rights to.

At the moment, I'm browsing French Revolution Torture illustrations, as one would assume a French prop master would use something he knows. After that I might start trying to find old books on archive.org about the French Revolution.

This is a wild quest.

 

[MAKE BELIEVE]

Are we 100% this was not made for the movie? If so all this time and work will be for nothing...

 

[Ceebrupt]

I've ask Francisco Sole about the image, but he did'nt draw this one.

Just to say, I contact many of the prop guys they work on the movie and nobody remember where they add the picture. Even Roman Polanski didn't remember (yes I phone him ) So members, It's our Graal, this Picture. Continue the quest !

 

[Odin82]

Anyone good with French? Might be time to try and contact the Prop Master or someone that was in the Art Department. My French is about 20 years old since last time I used it in a full conversation.

 

[Digital Mayhem]

Francisco Sole did only the book engravings for the novel and the movie. That is all he did. I had correspondence with him about 20 years ago.

What he also didn’t do is the frontispiece (Torchia‘s logo) for the movie version of the Nine Gates. That was another artist, but it is lost in time who it was.

The Prop Master sold his shop and all his goods and is in retirement since at least 20 years. I don’t know if he‘s still alive.

Sorry to disappoint you all. I would love to know who did the lecture engraving myself.

 

[Jintosh]

 

[Ceebrupt]

Thank you for clearing that up!. That's one less line of inquiry. I presume you are still searching too?


Okay... the picture.. what does it appear to be:

To me it seems to be someone casting out evil spirits, St. Paul maybe?

I think it is some French Art of the Catholic persecution of the Huguenot / Calvinists / Protestants. The guy that sourced the art was a French man named Philippe Turlure . Later in the film, when Corso is meeting Kessler, his secretary walks him down a corridor, and there is a similar piece of art on the wall.

One small remark, the art in Kessler's office (if this is what you're thinking of), is of the Roman general Belisarius begging for alms.

Circa 550 AD, Roman general Belisarius begging on the streets of...

Circa 550 AD, Roman general Belisarius begging on the streets of Byzantium, . Original Artwork: Engraving by F Holl after a painting by David.

www.gettyimages.be

 

[Odin82]

One small remark, the art in Kessler's office (if this is what you're thinking of), is of the Roman general Belisarius begging for alms.

Yeah, that art is from the prop company, Soubrier.com or something. Link is in one of the replies. Still in their inventory for prop rental. Always wanted to message them and ask how much they'd sell it for, but well, guess they'd charge a fortune. Think there's a second one in there too that was used, but not the one in question.

Antique Engraving Beggar - Soubrier Antiquities and Decoration

Large Antique Engraving Beggar on David forum after frame green to golden palms Empire , XIX .

www.soubrier.com

Thank you for the info and description of what the pic is though! Awesome to nail what it was.