New Right Side Image of Han Hoth Blaster

[GrenadeKing]

Why would they make unknurled copies of something thats already knurled?

Also, knurling tools come in many sizes for many projects. It's not unfeasible that a prop house machine shop would have one big enough for the job. We may have even had one big enough at my old high school machine shop.

 

[bobasfett]

There are lots of reasons, such as time, lack of materials, lack of machining tools, etc. This is especially true if one prop was made at the studio and then all of a sudden they realize they need another while they are filming on location. If it's needed quickly, the production crew is then at the mercy of the local facilities. Really, we have no idea about the time line of filming compared to the when and where what props were made.

That said; Chris, any idea when the Bespin and Dagobah scenes were shot vs. the on location scenes in Norweigh?? Maybe this would help us determine which blaster might have been made first. Pure speculation, but could be interesting.

 

[PHArchivist]

That said; Chris, any idea when the Bespin and Dagobah scenes were shot vs. the on location scenes in Norweigh?? Maybe this would help us determine which blaster might have been made first. Pure speculation, but could be interesting.

These last few posts drilled right down to my exact question. Right there with you guys!

After Dave posted the shots of the Bespin and the Hoth next to each other, I couldn't help but to think the machined metal Bespin was done first, and the Hoth second following the theories present in this most recent exchange (that the Hoth was a quicker, simpler version made to emulate the Bespin, but done with ink or paint).

 

[lonepigeon]

That said; Chris, any idea when the Bespin and Dagobah scenes were shot vs. the on location scenes in Norweigh?? Maybe this would help us determine which blaster might have been made first. Pure speculation, but could be interesting.

On location filming in Norway was done first before moving into the studio.
That said, LFL's policy seems to be that they do not bring any live firearms on location (Tunisia and Redwood forest are other examples of this). The Bespin blaster is a real blank firing Mauser, they wouldn't have brought it anyway. The Hoth one is a MGC replica - the non firing ESB Hero.
Hamill and Ford shared the Hoth blaster in Norway (resin blasters were probably used when holstered).
Hard to say which blaster was first, but it does appear that the 'Bespin' blaster did have pistons on it at one time to look like the 'Hoth' version. No photos exist of it with pistons though so they must have fallen off early.

 

[lonepigeon]

Are there any more images that show that right side?

Nope. That's why this EW photo surprised the heck out of me.

 

[PHArchivist]

On location filming in Norway was done first before moving into the studio.
That said, LFL's policy seems to be that they do not bring any live firearms on location (Tunisia and Redwood forest are other examples of this). The Bespin blaster is a real blank firing Mauser, they wouldn't have brought it anyway. The Hoth one is a MGC replica - the non firing ESB Hero.
Hamill and Ford shared the Hoth blaster in Norway (resin blasters were probably used when holstered).
Hard to say which blaster was first, but it does appear that the 'Bespin' blaster did have pistons on it at one time to look like the 'Hoth' version. No photos exist of it with pistons though so they must have fallen off early.

Granted I am superimposing my opinions and theories upon Chris's post, but it is beginning to make more sense...

Though we do not rightly know which prop was made first, wouldn't common conjecture be that the hero (firing) version is made first, with resin or non-firing versions following?

My theory would be just that - the Bespin, with an open-cone, metal muzzle (metal to sustain any heat and force emitted from a blank cartridge?) was made first. A non-firing version with a muzzle of a differnent design and material made second. Regardless of shooting schedule.

And BTW, I'm drawing ablank here, but isn't the original Hoth muzzle cone closed off at the end, like most replicas. Not an open cone like the Bespin?

 

[PHArchivist]

My guess is that the muzzle of the Hoth version was made as a copy of the Bespin, turned out of another material (easier to work with than metal) since it did not have to withstand the force of a blank cartridge, and not hollowed out (solid; no open cone) for the same reason, and with a smooth (not knurled) cylinder with faux knurling drawn or painted on to emulate the true knurling of the Bespin muzzle.

 

[Treadwell]

On location filming in Norway was done first before moving into the studio.
That said, LFL's policy seems to be that they do not bring any live firearms on location (Tunisia and Redwood forest are other examples of this).

I think the key there is that they do not take them across nation boundaries (whether that means from the POV of Elstree or of Marin County).

The trip to the redwood forest was a relatively short trip by ground vehicle, though, and one of the documentaries shows Ford firing a blank at the bunker doors.

Anyway, that's a tangent, as your statement holds true for Norway.

 

[lonepigeon]

And BTW, I'm drawing ablank here, but isn't the original Hoth muzzle cone closed off at the end, like most replicas. Not an open cone like the Bespin?

Hoth and Bespin are both solid cones. The hollow part is only about .38" deep on each.
Just to throw a wrench in the works - There may be a third ESB Hero blaster.
The is a promo photo of the main cast on the Hoth base set and Han and Luke both have their blasters drawn. Both muzzles look like shiny metal. I originally thought Han's only looked dull in Norway (dulling spray to remove glare from the harsh white) and that he still had his same gun in the promo pic. This new photo shows pretty clearly that the muzzle is still dull, probably painted.

 

[lonepigeon]

I think the key there is that they do not take them across nation boundaries (whether that means from the POV of Elstree or of Marin County).

You're right. I was thinking about the ROTJ firing gun made by Bapty which was not brought to the US (used in bunker interiors).
Of course they had the other firing one made by Stembridge to use on location.

 

[bobasfett]

So Chris, if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying there were possibly two hero, shiny muzzle blasters made as evidenced by the promotional Hoth (Elstree) pic, along with the Han MGC Norway blaster (third blaster).

Makes sense, especially considering Han fired his blaster both in the slug asteroid cave and at the Vader 'dinner' scene on Bespin. One might speculate that the same blaster was used for Luke's and Han's scenes, since they never share screen time together. But the promotional pic is pretty good evidence that there were actually two separate hero blasters.

As a side note, does anyone have any HD pics of the dinner scene?? It would be interesting to see if we could tell what muzzle was on that gun (shiny or flat).

 

[lonepigeon]

So Chris, if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying there were possibly two hero, shiny muzzle blasters made as evidenced by the promotional Hoth (Elstree) pic, along with the Han MGC Norway blaster (third blaster).

Possibly.
Here's a composite of several muzzles. The two on the left are from the promo pic.
The top two are the 'Luke Bespin' muzzle.
Bottom left is the 'Han Hoth' muzzle.
Bottom right is Han's in the promo pic.

This last muzzle is the only one with a bright light shining right down the barrel, but it still doesn't seem to be the 'Han Hoth'. It could be but seems shinier and the gun barrel in the Hoth blaster is very black - almost looks like a big hole in the bottom left shot.

This is the only shot I've ever seen to indicate a possible third ESB Hero blaster.
The firing 'Bespin' blaster can be identified in most shots by the wear pattern on the muzzle (although this changes over the course of the film as paint wears off.

Also note that the bottom left shot is the only previous reference for what the Han Hoth blaster scope mount knob looked like.

 

[PHArchivist]

Great pics Chris!

 

[bobasfett]

Well, I can't remember if this theory has been offered yet, but what if the Han MGC muzzle was actually a resin copy which was casted off one of the original shiny muzzles? This might explain the strange knurling pattern....possibly the mold was somewhat compromised? Just thinking out of the box here.....

 

[JHVanOphem]

Speaking of the dinner scene, I just remembered a clip of them filming that scene, was it on the DVD bloopers? Harrison firing the gun, a stagehand off camera handing him a second gun which he fired again. So there were at least two firing weapons being used in that scene.

 

[lonepigeon]

I thought he fires and then they replace it with a stunt blaster to fly out of his hand. Have to watch that again though I don't remember what disc that's on.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

I think it was from 'Empire of Dreams', but then again it might have been the blooper reel.

 

[GrenadeKing]

Well, I can't remember if this theory has been offered yet, but what if the Han MGC muzzle was actually a resin copy which was casted off one of the original shiny muzzles? This might explain the strange knurling pattern....possibly the mold was somewhat compromised? Just thinking out of the box here.....

That would actualy make sense to me. If they were going to cast a few extra's to use on stunt sabers, why machine a totaly different part when they already had 1 or 2 for the hero blasters that they could cast up?

 

[Montagar]

It's on the blooper reel. I just watched it and it does appear that Han fires the second blaster that is handed to him as well.

 

[lonepigeon]

Well, I can't remember if this theory has been offered yet, but what if the Han MGC muzzle was actually a resin copy which was casted off one of the original shiny muzzles? This might explain the strange knurling pattern....possibly the mold was somewhat compromised? Just thinking out of the box here.....

Possibly, but to me it looks like the knurling was applied poorly to the actual piece. It may have come out bad because the tool used was not meant for that material or they had to improvise a tool for the material.

BTW - The ESB stunt blasters were cast from the Han ANH Hero. If a cast muzzle was to appear I would expect it to be ANH derived which this definitely is not.

Where is this 'blooper real' from - What disc or tape?