New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*

[TimeyWhimyStuff]

Too much plot crammed into one episode, I really hope they bring back two-parters next season, & that was the most shoe-horned regeneration I've ever seen. Tennant's was much more graceful. Not the worst of Smith's run but he deserved a better exit than that. Was fully expecting Capaldi to be on the roof after he blew up the Daleks but then he's young again & just BAM. Seemed backwards.

 

[Xxblackbird]

So thoughts on the xmas episode "The Time of the Doctor"?

It seemed rushed - very rushed. I really wished they would have done a 90min episode. I was confused on who Clara's family was. I was also confused why the 12th doctor didnt know how to fly the tardis. Speaking of the 12th he just popped in place which was a downer. I expected the morph we always saw with the past 3 and maybe they cut it to save money.

Why were you confused about Clara's family?
Past Doctor's usually have amnesia for a while after they regenerate. That's why he couldn't fly the Tardis.
The Time Lords granted the Doctor a new set of regenerations. He doesn't *just* regenerate, he ends one cycle and starts another. We've never seen that and don't know how it's really supposed to work.
Regenerations almost always look different anyway. One time he appeared to shift into some kind of cocoon. Another he physically (and painfully) shifted faces like a werewolf or something. Even of the 7 we've seen in the new series, some have looked different. Then there's that Sho-Che thing and the Watcher. But this time he just kind of popped. Not that big of a deal.

I liked the episode. I thought it did kind of jump around a bit and I wish it had been longer, but I don't share the complaints about the watered down villains or a bunch of things not making any sense.

Does anyone know what the Doctor actually says before he slaps that thing with the Seal of Rassilon on Handles? Something about the High Council and the Master? I can't understand him.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I found the episode to be pretty "meh" and unemotional. Of all the reasons they could potentially have to give the Doctor more regenerations they went with Time Lord magic? I rolled my eyes when I saw the crack again and after the fantastic set up of the 50th they brought Gallifrey back to the picture WAY too soon.

Smith getting old wasn't convincing at all and took me out of it as well. A shame really, I did like him as the Doctor. As others have said he deserved a better exit. As others have also said they tried to cram too much into this. Really? ANOTHER episode where Daleks and Cybermen and everyone else team up against the Doctor? Didn't the Doctor wipe himself from their records and memory?

Oh well. Looking forward to Capaldi!

And it's interesting to note that Smith joins the elite group of Doctors that regenerated despite not being "killed". Hartnell, Troughton, McGann, and Hurt.

 

[Risu]

McGann was killed, he was just temporarily revived long enough to drink from the cup that allowed him to choose what he would look like.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

McGann was killed, he was just temporarily revived long enough to drink from the cup that allowed him to choose what he would look like.

Well,

A. He wasn't able to choose what he would look like, he was able to choose his personality.

B. His regeneration was not a result of death. It would have been, but the revival and magic beverage cheated that.

 

[Cookiee Monsta]

Enjoyed this episode. Looking forward to what Capaldi brings to the role!

 

[Mr Mcgoo]

I'm not gonna lie, I didn't believe Matt Smith was leaving until I saw Capaldi.

 

[Beechy McFly]

Fairly disappointed.. As others have said, it was all over the place, and most importantly, as Michael Bergeron said, there was unemotional..

I would have preferred them to save, "The Rings of Akhaten", for his Regeneration episode.. Should have had Matt Smith make his speech in it, then he Regenerates to destroy Akhaten.. Would have had so much more impact..

And John Hurt would have been better as the new Doctor.. Not sure if I'll like Peter Capaldi?? Hoping he comes across as a Tom Baker style.. I'd have been interested in seeing John Hurt as The Doctor..

Though, I did call one thing.. I so knew they'd play, "Wake Up", when Matt Smith made his last speech; which you hear while he made his speech on the TARDIS before Regenerating..

 

[JBReplicas]

I didn't like it very much at all, I love the Cybermen but now they are just fodder to be thrown in and out of episodes with absolutely no hint of peril or danger, and the wooden Cyberman, I'm sorry but it all got a bit too much 'Pandorica Opens' for my taste. The Dalek situation also confuses the bejesus out of me, WHAT happened to the new Dalek Paradigm? Or did the fan opinion completely expel them from all future episodes/stories? For me they should have regenerated Matt Smith at the end of Day Of The Doctor, end on a real high, instead of limping off with a whimper

 

[AlexBC]

So, how old is the Doctor now? 1800?

 

[Jannix Quinn]

Pond was the only good thing.

Whoever came up with those forehead dalek stalks needs to be crucified.

 

[CutThumb]

Its difficult to find anything at all positive to say about Matt Smiths final appearance as Dr Who. Appearing “naked” was not one of them for a start. It was utterly repetitive idiocy from start to finish, boring as hell, filled with mostly garbage that felt thrown out of better scripts from the entire series, trying to pass off some of the weakest moments of “comedy” that even a panto would sneer at. It was shockingly awful.
Yet again the great “enemies” of the universe in their mighty CGI fleets were gathered all together to show just how singularly ineffective they were of even destroying one little town called “Christmas”. Wooden Cybermen, terrible thread bare plot holes exposed again that should have been darned shut episodic ages ago, Matt Smith in the most unconvincingly aging persons make up I’ve ever witnessed outside of an amateur theatre production , ending in the most ridiculous over exaggerated regeneration sequence I’ve ever seen. Did the Angels,Cyberman, Daleks etc have to loose every possible ounce of credibility at the hands of “Muppet Moffat”.
Yet just a couple of hours earlier I watched “An Adventure in Time and Space” for the second time. I knew exactly what was going to happen but you know I could still feel the tears prickling the backs of my eyes in a number of scenes. It contained several goodbyes from cast members I barely knew and each one of them was brief, note perfect and effecting.
Contrast that with the bloated, tortuously drawn out “turkey” that we were served yesterday. I certainly got choked up about it, but that was mainly in an effort to stop myself vomiting my Christmas dinner back in disgust at just how wasteful it was. It just threw everything it could into it in a terrible but vain effort to be entertaining ,but ultimately, like watching the Doctor clown around stupidly in an awful lot of this last series, it just fell flat on its face and the only thing I felt when he went (apart from that single line that felt if as it came from Matt Smiths heart) was relief that he’d gone.
I just hope to god the new Sherlock has been chiefly drafted by Mark Gatiss and not Moffat. The difference between them ,like "An Adventure in" and "Time of" is just almost impossible to credit.

 

[AlexBC]

Its difficult to find anything at all positive to say about Matt Smiths final appearance as Dr Who. Appearing “naked” was not one of them for a start. It was utterly repetitive idiocy from start to finish, boring as hell, filled with mostly garbage that felt thrown out of better scripts from the entire series, trying to pass off some of the weakest moments of “comedy” that even a panto would sneer at. It was shockingly awful.
Yet again the great “enemies” of the universe in their mighty CGI fleets were gathered all together to show just how singularly ineffective they were of even destroying one little town called “Christmas”. Wooden Cybermen, terrible thread bare plot holes exposed again that should have been darned shut episodic ages ago, Matt Smith in the most unconvincingly aging persons make up I’ve ever witnessed outside of an amateur theatre production , ending in the most ridiculous over exaggerated regeneration sequence I’ve ever seen. Did the Angels,Cyberman, Daleks etc have to loose every possible ounce of credibility at the hands of “Muppet Moffat”.
Yet just a couple of hours earlier I watched “An Adventure in Time and Space” for the second time. I knew exactly what was going to happen but you know I could still feel the tears prickling the backs of my eyes in a number of scenes. It contained several goodbyes from cast members I barely knew and each one of them was brief, note perfect and effecting.
Contrast that with the bloated, tortuously drawn out “turkey” that we were served yesterday. I certainly got choked up about it, but that was mainly in an effort to stop myself vomiting my Christmas dinner back in disgust at just how wasteful it was. It just threw everything it could into it in a terrible but vain effort to be entertaining ,but ultimately, like watching the Doctor clown around stupidly in an awful lot of this last series, it just fell flat on its face and the only thing I felt when he went (apart from that single line that felt if as it came from Matt Smiths heart) was relief that he’d gone.
I just hope to god the new Sherlock has been chiefly drafted by Mark Gatiss and not Moffat. The difference between them ,like "An Adventure in" and "Time of" is just almost impossible to credit.

I on the other hand really enjoyed the episode. There were some plot points which I found a little poorly executed, though.

1) The "war" felt more like a skirmish. It just did not feel like what we saw of Trenzalore fit with this battle.

2) The deus ex machine involving the new regeneration cycle. The Timelords needed to know the Doctor's name to come through but a quick speech from some girl does the job. What exactly was stopping them from helping if that's all it took?

 

[NakedMoleRat]

I for one hate to see Matt leave. I thought he was a great Doctor.

But the regeneration "no limit" trick was a bit forced and rushed to me. I thought a better explanation would have been the regeneration trigger from the Sisterhood of Karn would have re-set him. How great would it have been for him to think 'this is it' and then regenerate into Capaldi....who's first lines could have been.... "Well, I wasn't expecting that!"

We could have found out next year when he visits them again, that Hurt was the new #1. after the post death regeneration trigger.

 

[cboath]

I don't mind the new set of regenerations...however, getting them seemed a bit too easy. In one episode it goes from answering the questions of is/are there any regens left, to none left, to now there's 13 more. Just seemed like no work to get them (aside from the fact he held them off about 500 years).

The answer to the question of 'Doctor Who?' is now the way the timelords will return. OK, fine, cool with that. Seeing as we saw a nanosecond of 12's 500 years on that planet, i think it's safe to say he sent some info back through the crack to inform the timelords of what was going on. The code for them to come out is his name. After never getting the name and hearing he was going to ultimately fail due to no more regens, the timelords did the only thing they felt they could - send him a new set of regens. To simply pop open the right and come streaming through apparently would have been suicide based on the lines in the show.

It seemed like the goal was everyone wanted to kill off the timelords. I don't recall a mention of sealing the rift of being a possible solution - just wiping them out upon their return. That'd make the 500 year stalemate/skirmish/whatever just that. The foes poking at the doctor to try and get him to open the door for the timelords so they could be wiped out. Apparently it took 500 years of waiting before they all got frustrated enough to simply try and take him out. Keep in mind, the timelords COULD still return anytime if they kill the doctor. The doctor was to notify them it was safe. Apparently they did find a way back, but didn't want to be annihilated in the process.

As for the regen - i too figured capaldi would have been inserted atop the clocktower. I halfway wonder if the new set of regens comes with a new level of control. Ala Romana walking between rooms changing appearances as will. As he said, the process had already occurred but was delayed in 'kicking in'. Could have been a control level that allowed him to retain his form appearance long enough to say goodbye to Clara before it forced it's way into the new form. Now, how the new form appears a single frame later with no transition at all - I don't know - they'd already blown the budget?

As for not knowing how to fly the Tardis - there's a long established amnesia factor in regens due to the process.

Don't know that there's an official age of the doctor, but the did say the first gap between clara coming back was 300 years. I want to say the second was 200, but i'm not sure about that.

 

[phez]

Does anyone know what the Doctor actually says before he slaps that thing with the Seal of Rassilon on Handles? Something about the High Council and the Master? I can't understand him.

The seal of the High Console of Gallifrey.
I Nicked it off the Master in the Death Zone.
There is an algorithm imprinted in the atomic structure, use it to decode the message.

It is a reference to "The 5 Doctors" episode. They TimeLords traded the Master a complete new regeneration cycle to rescue the Doctor from the Death Zone on Gallifrey. They gave the seal of the Timelords to the master to prove to the Doctor that he was working with them. Jon Pertwees Doctor took it from the Master and said he was going to return it to the Timelords which apparently did not happen.

I am guessing they tied that in because they had already set the rules back then for the possibility of a new set of regenerations so they did not really need to explain anything else. At some point they can just say that the new life cycle was somehow stored in the seal the whole time and was just never activated (or something like that lol). IT is an easy way to explain the regen's without having to alter whatever cannon is already there. Problem Solved, blame John Nathan-Turner lollol.

 

[Xxblackbird]

The Dalek situation also confuses the bejesus out of me, WHAT happened to the new Dalek Paradigm? Or did the fan opinion completely expel them from all future episodes/stories?

They were in Asylum of the Daleks. They are the Dalek commanders. The soldiers still look the same.

Didn't the Doctor wipe himself from their records and memory?

He wiped himself from the Dalek memory banks. The armies didn't assemble because of the Doctor. They assembled to investigate the beacon. The Daleks re-learned about the Doctor from Tasha Lem. The others still knew about the Doctor or thought he was dead.

The seal of the High Console of Gallifrey.
I Nicked it off the Master in the Death Zone.
There is an algorithm imprinted in the atomic structure, use it to decode the message.

It is a reference to "The 5 Doctors" episode. They TimeLords traded the Master a complete new regeneration cycle to rescue the Doctor from the Death Zone on Gallifrey. They gave the seal of the Timelords to the master to prove to the Doctor that he was working with them. Jon Pertwees Doctor took it from the Master and said he was going to return it to the Timelords which apparently did not happen.

I am guessing they tied that in because they had already set the rules back then for the possibility of a new set of regenerations so they did not really need to explain anything else. At some point they can just say that the new life cycle was somehow stored in the seal the whole time and was just never activated (or something like that lol). IT is an easy way to explain the regen's without having to alter whatever cannon is already there. Problem Solved, blame John Nathan-Turner lollol.

Thank you! Makes perfect sense now.

 

[JBReplicas]

No, I thought they were bought in to be the new daleks, as in soldiers/commanders/everything etc, which is why when they first appear they destroy the 'old' dalek soldiers right in front of them. I believe it was a re-design that went bad is all, I don't know if you have seen the 'Fiveish Doctors' spoof programme that was made for the 50th, but in it, 3 of the classic Doctor actors hide inside 3 of the new Daleks and they are all dark blue

 

[Jaitea]

No, I thought they were bought in to be the new daleks, as in soldiers/commanders/everything etc, which is why when they first appear they destroy the 'old' dalek soldiers right in front of them. I believe it was a re-design that went bad is all, I don't know if you have seen the 'Fiveish Doctors' spoof programme that was made for the 50th, but in it, 3 of the classic Doctor actors hide inside 3 of the new Daleks and they are all dark blue

Yeah it seems like the Beeb (& Moffat) had to take on board the criticism about the new design Dalek, they've hardly been used much since they premiered. The RTD Daleks were supposed to be replaced by the new colourful, taller and supposedly more menacing design.

The bad reaction to the new Dalek was an expensive experience, I think most of the RTD ones were sold off

J

 

[NormanF]

Is it too late to do something about the cybermen? I don't think I will ever like the new design.

Sent from my Etch A Sketch.