New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*

[NakedMoleRat]

Well, I am REALLY going to miss Matt Smith. He's my favorite Doctor after Tom! That combined with the fact that I am already entirely sick of Clara, and Moffat's need to make "every episode epic!" crap..... If the new lead actor does not immediatly run out of the stable as a superb Doctor, then Clara and Moffat will have me walking away.

It took 26 years of Classic Who to get to 7 Doctors, now we have gone through 3 in 9 years (Or 7 if you would follow Moffat's time-line) Not boding well for reaching the 13th limit!

Also, it occurs that we will have a new sonic screwdriver on screen with the 12th Doctor, before we get a decent replica of 11's.

 

[Jeyl]

It took 26 years of Classic Who to get to 7 Doctors, now we have gone through 3 in 9 years (Or 7 if you would follow Moffat's time-line) Not boding well for reaching the 13th limit!

Wasn't it stated to be more like a hundred-something regenerations in a Sarah Jane episode that featured Matt Smith?

 

[Organic Mechanic]

It took 26 years of Classic Who to get to 7 Doctors, now we have gone through 3 in 9 years (Or 7 if you would follow Moffat's time-line) Not boding well for reaching the 13th limit!

William Hartnell - 3 Seasons + Special
Patrick Troughton - 3 Seasons + Specials
John Pertwee - 5 Seasons + Special
Tom Baker - 7 Seasons
Peter Davison - 3 Seasons + Special
Colin Baker - 2 Seasons
Silvester McCoy - 3 Seasons
Paul McGann - 1 Movie
Chris Eccleston - 1 Season
David Tennant - 3 Seasons + Specials
Matt Smith - 3 Seasons + Specials


I dunno. Seems a pretty consistent progression to me.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

Wasn't it stated to be more like a hundred-something regenerations in a Sarah Jane episode that featured Matt Smith?

I dunno, I'm more apt to believe 40ish years of the show (and related media, fans, and production) treating twelve as the limit than a one-off remark that Eleven made to a kid that was penned by Davies for SJA. Seeing the exchange, in context with the inflections of voice and whatnot, would go a long way towards suggesting how honest Eleven was with that remark.

 

[letmebestormy]

I agree with this. That was a one off line to a kid. There are plenty of other ways they can (and will) explain extra regens from the show. You don't really need to look beyond Let's Kill Hitler.

Suddenly I'm curious about River. We may never see their final scene before she gets to the library now. Although it's possible she hung out with 2 (or more) Doctors I got the feeling it was just #11.

I dunno, I'm more apt to believe 40ish years of the show (and related media, fans, and production) treating twelve as the limit than a one-off remark that Eleven made to a kid that was penned by Davies for SJA. Seeing the exchange, in context with the inflections of voice and whatnot, would go a long way towards suggesting how honest Eleven was with that remark.

 

[cboath]

William Hartnell - 3 Seasons + Special
Patrick Troughton - 3 Seasons + Specials
John Pertwee - 5 Seasons + Special
Tom Baker - 7 Seasons
Peter Davison - 3 Seasons + Special
Colin Baker - 2 Seasons
Silvester McCoy - 3 Seasons
Paul McGann - 1 Movie
Chris Eccleston - 1 Season
David Tennant - 3 Seasons + Specials
Matt Smith - 3 Seasons + Specials


I dunno. Seems a pretty consistent progression to me.

I think there's so skew factor there in that the season for at least 1 and two were much longer than for 3 forward. Hartnell had like 29 stories with an average length of 5 episodes per and that was over 3 years? Troughton had a bit fewer stories but the same average. By pertwee they were down to 4 episodes per.

Hartnells rate would have been around 50 episodes per season at 3 years. Today one season nets you 12 hours, 1/2 the time of an Hartnell season. Granted that math is off memory, but it can't be that far off.

 

[cboath]

I agree with this. That was a one off line to a kid. There are plenty of other ways they can (and will) explain extra regens from the show. You don't really need to look beyond Let's Kill Hitler.

Suddenly I'm curious about River. We may never see their final scene before she gets to the library now. Although it's possible she hung out with 2 (or more) Doctors I got the feeling it was just #11.

Seeing as they're going in opposite directions - we saw his first kiss with here, which is her last. So for that to work 10 would be the first to meet her from his POV, then unbeknownst to 11, 12 and 13 intereact with her before she gets to 11. However, that doesn't really make sense.

 

[timelordjedi777]

Seeing as they're going in opposite directions - we saw his first kiss with here, which is her last. So for that to work 10 would be the first to meet her from his POV, then unbeknownst to 11, 12 and 13 intereact with her before she gets to 11. However, that doesn't really make sense.

Who's to say that 12 doesn't give her the sonic and kiss her then. It couldn't have been the last kiss. Not to mention the "kiss" at his tomb. And not to mention she wasn't surprised when she saw 10's face. She acted like it was normal to see him in another regeneration.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

On the Season Six dvd set there are some mini-episodes, two of which involve River. The latter, called "Last Night" shows Eleven about to depart with River to the singing gardens (their last date before library). If River did encounter 12 or 13 while she was still alive she had to have in between nights with 11.

Also, since "Name" takes place after River mentions the last kiss in "Library" that's not a contradiction, since she didn't know there'd be a ghost kiss yet.

 

[letmebestormy]

Exactly. So unless they show it in the next two eps....we're not going to see that scene. Not a big deal, I just always thought Moffat would show it to bring it full circle back to the Library.

 

[timelordjedi777]

So does anyone know how old River ended up being? And is it possible for her to have been older than she looked? If she was a Timelady then couldn't she have been at least 100 seeing as how Timelords age differently.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

I assume that River is fully human when she dies since she A) was only part Time Lord to begin with and B) gave up her regenerations to resurrect the Doctor. At any rate she did say that she's dial back her physical age in that incarnation as time went on to mess with people (whether she could or not after losing the regens I have no idea) so I don't think how old she looked is any help. Personally I'm going with she any ridiculous amount older than what 51st century human aging would suggest when she died.

 

[Organic Mechanic]

I think there's so skew factor there in that the season for at least 1 and two were much longer than for 3 forward. Hartnell had like 29 stories with an average length of 5 episodes per and that was over 3 years? Troughton had a bit fewer stories but the same average. By pertwee they were down to 4 episodes per.

Hartnells rate would have been around 50 episodes per season at 3 years. Today one season nets you 12 hours, 1/2 the time of an Hartnell season. Granted that math is off memory, but it can't be that far off.

Well, I looked it up...because I'm that kind of annoying. :lol

Total run time for each Doctor:

1. 52.5 Hrs
2. 53 Hrs
3. 53.25 Hrs
4. 71.5 Hrs
5. 31.5
6. 13 Hrs
7. 17.5
8. 1.5
9. 9.75
10. 36.75 Hrs
11. 38 Hrs

I didn't count any Tardisodes/Minisodes/Webisodes toward the new Doctors. The number for 11 contains a projected 60 minutes for the Xmas Ep, and 90 minutes for the 50th. All counts rounded to the nearest 1/4 Hr.

 

[TimeyWhimyStuff]

Neil Gaiman explains why the new Doctor shouldn't be someone famous

Little tid-bit from Gaiman, quote..

I actually like it when The Doctor is a relatively unknown actor, or one without one huge role that made them famous. A star, like Sir Ian, brings all the other roles they’ve ever played to the table when they act. Seeing John Hurt as the (Spoiler) at the end of the Name of the Doctor, meant that this was a certain type of part with a certain amount of gravitas, and you understood that John Hurt was bringing everything with it (including being John Hurt), just as Derek Jacobi did as the Master.

ok, DEBATE

 

[DuneMuadDib]

Completey agree with Gaiman.

 

[mlsmithjr]

As sci-fi fans in the age of remakes, reimagination, and do-overs we need to expect that an old obscure "fact" that a Time Lord has 12 generations is easy to dispense with. It was only a fact because nobody expected the show to last long enough to see 12 actors in it anyhow. Most Who fans today were not fans prior to 2005 and don't know/care about the regeneration limit. Lets just get over it and assume there is no practical limit because, unless the show is cancelled, there will be a 13.
If they really want to placate the fanboys they'll have some throwaway line in there about the regeneration limit not a physical limit but one imposed by the Time Lords themselves, and with no more police he can go on forever yadda yadda yadda. Other some other explanation or incident that deals with it.

This reminds me of how some Trek fans demanded some kind of continuity stretch to explain how Klingons got ridges between TOS and the movie. Ridiculous. It doesn't matter. But then Enterprise went and explained it anyhow (rather clumsily).

So forget 12. It's a non-issue. Just please don't let the next actor be ginger ;-)

 

[timelordjedi777]

Well Rassilon came back. I don't know if he had reached his 12 or not but there he was alive again. We all also know that River gave him her regenerations so assuming she only regenerated 2 times then the Doctor should theoretically be able to regenerate at least 10 more times.

 

[TheDoctor]

As sci-fi fans in the age of remakes, reimagination, and do-overs we need to expect that an old obscure "fact" that a Time Lord has 12 generations is easy to dispense with. It was only a fact because nobody expected the show to last long enough to see 12 actors in it anyhow. Most Who fans today were not fans prior to 2005 and don't know/care about the regeneration limit. Lets just get over it and assume there is no practical limit because, unless the show is cancelled, there will be a 13.
If they really want to placate the fanboys they'll have some throwaway line in there about the regeneration limit not a physical limit but one imposed by the Time Lords themselves, and with no more police he can go on forever yadda yadda yadda. Other some other explanation or incident that deals with it.

This reminds me of how some Trek fans demanded some kind of continuity stretch to explain how Klingons got ridges between TOS and the movie. Ridiculous. It doesn't matter. But then Enterprise went and explained it anyhow (rather clumsily).

So forget 12. It's a non-issue. Just please don't let the next actor be ginger ;-)

Just to be picky.... he has 13 Regenerations, which means there will be 14 actors playing The Doctor. Even IF Moffet pulls out some "new Math" and gives us an "in-between" doctor (and Matt Smith turns out to be #12), then there are still two more actors who get to play the part.

Having said that, it's easy enough to bypass.
(1) Doctor Who isn't Science Fiction, it's Fantasy - this means that all they have to do is pull a Fairy Godmother out of nowhere to give The Doctor more regenerations.
(2) They could just ignore it - Continuity has never been Who's strong point.
(3) They could pull what little Science Fiction they have invested in the show and come up with a Device or procedure to extend his regenerations.
(4) They could just as easily side-step the regeneration issue by using another convenient plot device, such as he "morphs himself into another form" or "his identity is forever switched due to a Nuclear meltdown" or "a time-stream merge is interfering with his natural Time Lord physiology" or something.
(5) Most likely they'll explain it away with a single throw-away line, like "Good thing the Time Lords aren't around anymore, or that would be the last of me!"

 

[B-Movie Zombie]

I bet that they say something along the lines that because of the time war the limit of regenerations was lifted. Would you want your soldiers dying at the front lines because the reach their regenerations limit. What army would want a soldier that can hardly ever been killed?

 

[mobius303]

Maybe we aren't asking the right question?
What set the limits on the regenerations?
The master regenerated more than 13times.
Rassilon regenerated to the point he was dead (or everyone thought so) but he was still around in the 5 doctors.

When the universe is your playground there are no limits, appears to be the Doctor Who premise to me as it stands.