She grew up with the knowledge of the universe pouring into her bedroom. She conjured a Time Lord from memory. Apples were probably not a big deal.
New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*
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She grew up with the knowledge of the universe pouring into her bedroom. She conjured a Time Lord from memory. Apples were probably not a big deal.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
That's been my theory all along. The Doctor used the Chameleon Arch to escape the Family of Blood and The Master used it to escape the Time War. Since The Rani is/was one of the most brilliant bio-chemists every she may have had a hand in building the thing in the first place. It makes perfect sense she could perfect the device and use it on herself to become River Song. That would explain her need for secrecy, her status as a criminal but with benefits and her intimate knowledge of the Doctor.
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greatwazoo42
Master Member
I think that was tied in with the universe ceasing to exist. The "stoned" Daleks and the other Medusan Remnants (not the Cascade, the statues) were because their existence had been wiped out entirely. Since Amy was exposed to the Crack for her whole life she would be displaying evidence of history vanishing. An example would be the Dalek theft of Earth not having happened in her memory.
You can look at it as if it's a parallel or alternate time line (a time pocket would make more sense here) and then The season finale is when it rejoins to "proper" timeline...maybe. We still can't be sure because we don't know why the Tardis 'sploded and a few other loose ends. Thankfully, this isn't Star Trek (of which I'm also a fan) so they don't have to wrap everything up neatly at the end of each episode.
rocketeer25
Sr Member
Agreed. I tried to keep up for awhile, but then I just decided to sit back and enjoy the ride as much as I could.
BRILLIANT!
I've never seen the old WHO, so after reading your theory, I googled Rani. I think you've hit the nail on the head. It explains a lot!
rollerboi
Sr Member
It strikes me also, that River has a very semitic look about her. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but perhaps her "origin" involves hebrew roots, which could explain naming and so forth, I don't know.
Mercury
Sr Member
Rani is the most obvious choice to being River and Moffat said it wouldn't be any of the obvious choices. That should rule out Rani & even a sane Master.
Other theories I've read online are:
1: The Tardis itself. An evolved Tardis that has been the Doctors companion all during his travels. The Tardis is a living being and would know all the Doctors secrets.
2: The Doctor's Daughter. Or more of a half clone really. Makes the flirting weird though.
3: Lucy Saxon. The master's wife. She killed the best man she had ever known and as his companion, he probably taught her how to fly the Tardis.
4: The other half Doctor left with Rose. The Doctor said he would grow old and die, but what if he did regenerate and after many years find a way back into the Doctor's universe. The original Doctor didn't like him too much because he was more blood thirsty than he should be.
5: Jack's, or the Face of Boe's daughter. In the early station episode, in the background is announcement that the Face of Boe had a daughter.
That's just a few of the theories out there. Moffat said we would find out next season, so unless they plan of regenerating Smith out of the series already, or ending the series, I don't see how the Doctor could be killed by River. But then again, Timey-Wimey stuff....
Other theories I've read online are:
1: The Tardis itself. An evolved Tardis that has been the Doctors companion all during his travels. The Tardis is a living being and would know all the Doctors secrets.
2: The Doctor's Daughter. Or more of a half clone really. Makes the flirting weird though.
3: Lucy Saxon. The master's wife. She killed the best man she had ever known and as his companion, he probably taught her how to fly the Tardis.
4: The other half Doctor left with Rose. The Doctor said he would grow old and die, but what if he did regenerate and after many years find a way back into the Doctor's universe. The original Doctor didn't like him too much because he was more blood thirsty than he should be.
5: Jack's, or the Face of Boe's daughter. In the early station episode, in the background is announcement that the Face of Boe had a daughter.
That's just a few of the theories out there. Moffat said we would find out next season, so unless they plan of regenerating Smith out of the series already, or ending the series, I don't see how the Doctor could be killed by River. But then again, Timey-Wimey stuff....
rad1701
Sr Member
Watched the last episode for the season yesterday. HAS TO BE ONE OF THE BEST THINGS I HAVE WATCHED IN A LONG TIME! FANTASTIC doesn't even come close. I can't believe how much I've come to care about these characters in such a short time. Just loved how it all came together. I was smiling and stomping my feet and punching the sky during it! So, so great! Hate to bring it up but this is the kind of thing we deserved at the end of "LOST." And this isn't even the end. Matt Smith, Karen Gillan, Arthur Darvill, and Alex Kingston all deserve huge praise. I was especially moved by this episode. I could go on and on, but I think I'll stop there. Except,.... "GERONIMO!"
greatwazoo42
Master Member
My wife often tells our friends that when it comes to Doctor Who she "enjoyed the choir but didn't join the church."
After this season I'm not so sure anymore. After the season finale she said with a big smile on "now THAT is how a season finale should be." We talked happily about it for over an hour after watching it and only stopped because we had to go to work in the morning and, therefore, needed to get some sleep.
After this season I'm not so sure anymore. After the season finale she said with a big smile on "now THAT is how a season finale should be." We talked happily about it for over an hour after watching it and only stopped because we had to go to work in the morning and, therefore, needed to get some sleep.
Tom Starkiller
Well-Known Member
River can't be the Rani, nor can she kill the Doctor. That would contradict the Library episodes where she dies as River and states that the Doctor was with her the night before she went there.
I reckon she kills Rory. That would have an effect on both Amy and the Doctor and change things.
I reckon she kills Rory. That would have an effect on both Amy and the Doctor and change things.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
Tom...you're forgetting the Doctor's repeated line about "history can be rewritten."
ANYTHING is possible and when you stop looking at time as an immutable linear chain of cause and effect and take a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint then it gets really scary.
ANYTHING is possible and when you stop looking at time as an immutable linear chain of cause and effect and take a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint then it gets really scary.
Birdie
Master Member
I don't think she's going to be anything we've seen before. River is Moffat's 'pet' creation and I think it's unlikeley that he's building her up like this for the payoff to be anything other than something of his own invention.
I also don't think her act of murder will be anything to do with her being secretly evil. It would go against everything we've seen of her so far, and would mean the little girl from Silence in the Library is stuck for eternity with a psychopath.
My guess is that she'll be forced to make an impossible decision at some point, and as we saw in the finale, she's not as averse to killing as the Doctor.
I also don't think her act of murder will be anything to do with her being secretly evil. It would go against everything we've seen of her so far, and would mean the little girl from Silence in the Library is stuck for eternity with a psychopath.
My guess is that she'll be forced to make an impossible decision at some point, and as we saw in the finale, she's not as averse to killing as the Doctor.
As long as we're throwing far fetched ideas out into the void....River could be the Doctor.
The Doctor got out of the pandorica due to a predestination paradox. You can write it off as a timey wimey cheat if you like but I think in the context it played out well and entertainingly. If we had seen how the Doctor got out without the paradox then it would have been pointless to show the paradox.
Plus there's a lot of quickie time travel rules that get broken in this episode pretty much because the TARDIS was exploding (in a different fashion to the Mind Robber to cause the Universe to collapse I'd guess) and the universe was ending a lot of the usual bets were off. (ie no Reapers or Chronovores show up when Amy touches Amelia)
My main gripe was... the Moff was awfully vague on how exactly Amy remembered the Doctor and why her remembering him would bring him back into existance. And assuming he does and he's intact up to at least more or less the events of the 11th Hour- then did the Rest of Season 5 still happen? or did they happen but just without Rory and Amy? It's pretty much- you go with the idea for the thematics of it - I get it but a little more .. I dunno technobable jiggery pokery dialogue would have been nice there or at least layman's anaology substitute for such.
The landing marks outside Amy's home I assumed were done by the Nestene stealing Amy's memroies- but it could very well be whoever is the voice behind the Silence....
I give Moff Credit for delivering a proper series story arc. I always felt RTD's were rather... tacked on and poorly plotted. He was good at set-ups but could never seem to deliver a satisfying conclusion! His best interweaving of a arc plot was probably LOTTL Series 3, but the final ep was a huge letdown. All of RTD's finale's were pretty big self indulgent fan fiction or really disappointing. End of Time being the very worst.
Despite my niggles I actually really liked this finale and hugely enjoyed Moff's version of taking on a finale and a season long story. Not only that but he'd already planted his seed for the Series 6 arc- amazing!
Plus there's a lot of quickie time travel rules that get broken in this episode pretty much because the TARDIS was exploding (in a different fashion to the Mind Robber to cause the Universe to collapse I'd guess) and the universe was ending a lot of the usual bets were off. (ie no Reapers or Chronovores show up when Amy touches Amelia)
My main gripe was... the Moff was awfully vague on how exactly Amy remembered the Doctor and why her remembering him would bring him back into existance. And assuming he does and he's intact up to at least more or less the events of the 11th Hour- then did the Rest of Season 5 still happen? or did they happen but just without Rory and Amy? It's pretty much- you go with the idea for the thematics of it - I get it but a little more .. I dunno technobable jiggery pokery dialogue would have been nice there or at least layman's anaology substitute for such.
The landing marks outside Amy's home I assumed were done by the Nestene stealing Amy's memroies- but it could very well be whoever is the voice behind the Silence....
I give Moff Credit for delivering a proper series story arc. I always felt RTD's were rather... tacked on and poorly plotted. He was good at set-ups but could never seem to deliver a satisfying conclusion! His best interweaving of a arc plot was probably LOTTL Series 3, but the final ep was a huge letdown. All of RTD's finale's were pretty big self indulgent fan fiction or really disappointing. End of Time being the very worst.
Despite my niggles I actually really liked this finale and hugely enjoyed Moff's version of taking on a finale and a season long story. Not only that but he'd already planted his seed for the Series 6 arc- amazing!
Egon Spengler
Master Member
I'm kind of sick of the "Let's kill Rory" stuff. I hope that isn't what happens.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
In the last two episodes everybody got killed once or twice but I agree: I was pretty steamed when Rory bought the farm too.
Risu
Master Member
I believe what they said was that Amy had the ability to bring things through from the previous universe because the crack in her wall was dumping bits of the universe into her mind all her life, making her sort of superhuman, I guess kind of like what Bad Wolf did to Rose, but in a much different way.
And I really liked all of RTD's finales, except End of Time of course, that was the worst episode of the whole series IMO.
I always found RTD's finales to be too over the top, with very unsatisfactory conclusions after quite the build up of jeopardy. They just felt like a cheat on top of expensive fan fiction. I really did like the Sound of Drums though. Just not last of the Time Lords.
sebmodio
Well-Known Member
Well, I have to say I absolutely adored this season. I started watching Doctor Who in Fall of '08, so the regular season was over and the only episodes I saw when they aired were the specials (and we all know how those were). So, in a sense, Matt Smith is my first Doctor. And you never forget your first Doctor. 
That said, I do like how Moffat made both finale episodes outstanding. It seemed RTD always had a problem with the second episode.
I am very, very excited for next season. Especially with episode three being written by Neil Gaiman. Also, I feel that Matt Smith really settled into his role. Bring on Christmas!
That said, I do like how Moffat made both finale episodes outstanding. It seemed RTD always had a problem with the second episode.
I am very, very excited for next season. Especially with episode three being written by Neil Gaiman. Also, I feel that Matt Smith really settled into his role. Bring on Christmas!
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