New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter silverskyes402
- Start date
Don't get me wrong, I recognize the quick fixes RTD implemented. I'm particularly against the resolution to Martha's season, but think it had one of the best build ups. The seeding of Vote Saxon, combined with the Chameleon Arch made for a fantastic reveal of the master. The resolution was rushed, as it often was, but the majority of "mysteries" of that series were resolved in my mind.
But again, are we talking the religious order of the Silence or the creatures we call the Silence? Because they added that extra layer of complexity to the idea of the silence without ever clearing up the differences. Can aliens that aren't Silence creatures be members of the religious order? Were the headless monks members? Can I be a member? How do I apply?
And if you already have the Silence as the religious order du jour of the series, why introduce the Headless Monks at all? Couldn't it have been just as effective to have the Creature Silences (See how complex this is getting to try to talk about) don robes and hoods aboard demons run so that they could not be seen and thus remembered? All we got out of using the headless monks was blue boy loosing his head and skulls eating people. (Don't get me started on the latter)
I just really don't see the need for the headless monks.
And then there are some things (Especially in the Silence series) that I feel were just over thought. A friend of mine had the best theory about the eye drives building up to the climax: they simply contained a picture of the Silence so you never looked away and could always remember them...would have prevented Rory from having to endure a nasty shock to the eye. :lol Instead we got something about the eye drives being tied to the memory center of the brain.
I just want a call back once in a while to reward fans for paying attention and a little less density of story/detail. Is that too much to ask?
...your mileage may vary.
-Nick
Last edited:
greatwazoo42
Master Member
Maybe it's finally moment when everyone shuts up and actually listens to the Doctor for once? 
DuneMuadDib
Sr Member
Maybe it's finally moment when everyone shuts up and actually listens to the Doctor for once?
Never happen.
Nick, fwiw Silents is the creatures and Silence is the religious order. Maybe it's like the difference between Gallifreyan and Time Lord? All members of the Silence are Silents, but not all Silents are members of the Silence?
The Headless Monks weren't part of the Silence, just allied with them (the same as the Church) in the goal of killing the Doctor.
I suppose the Headless Monks (aside from just being a cool sounding concept to Moffat apparently) add to showing how big of a threat the Doctor was perceived as. Like with "Pandorica Opens," it wasn't just one of his enemies but all of them working together because that's how scared they were of him. Demon's Run you've got three separate religious orders so scared of the Doctor that they'll work together to take him out.
Only thing that really bothered me was no direct mention of what made the TARDIS go screwy in "The Big Bang." I assume it's the Silence somehow (or now the Great Intelligence) but that'd be nice to have a definite answer on.
TheDoctor
Sr Member
Lost successfully did it for six seasons. Despite what you think of the ending (I hated it) they did a good job of building minutia and revealing mysteries at the appropriate time. I know a lot of people gave up on Lost after the first season or two, but for those that didn't, putting the pieces together was part of the fun of the show. In comparison, Doctor Who is a total lightweight. Heck, Next Gen and DS9 had stuff that you wouldn't notice that wouldn't pay off until later.
TheDoctor
Sr Member
RTD sucked at the whole "clues" thing. "Bad Wolf" was terrible. Except for it just appearing everywhere, there was no significance to it - nothing to point out that it was Rose and there was no reason to it. Nothing would have changed had it not been there.
Moffet, at least, builds it into the plot of the new series. The cracks, Silence, etc. are all part of an on-going plot, it's just just stuff that's "thrown in". The big question is: "Will it pay off?"
Yeah, I try not to think about that part too much.
That said, I can't help but speculate now that I'm thinking about it...we know the time vortex has the power to create fixed points and scatter one thing through many points of time and space. (See: Bad Wolf)
So, what if Clara was a creation, somehow, of the exploding TARDIS? It allows for a similar theory to the Bad Wolf one that's been proposed, but also allows Moffat to continue to ignore any and all creations of RTD.
...see, for all of my issues with the show, I still love it.
-Nick
The fact that it WAS appearing everywhere was the significance. In the 'Unquiet Dead', which I think was the 3rd episode, Gwyneth calls Rose the Bad Wolf. IMO there's your clue that it's Rose, but those references weren't for us, they were for her. In the 1st season, Rose spread 'BAD WOLF' throughout time & space to let herself know that she was supposed to go back to Satellite 5 to save the Doctor, but the 4th season references were fot the Doctor himself. That let him know that if the realities were collapsing, then what was coming was bad. He had no clue what was happening until he saw 'BAD WOLF' everywhere, even with all the planets disappearing. Can't see how it would have been the same story without it.
I totally agree on Moff. He's a bit frustrating, but I'm hopelessly one of the faithful when it comes to him.
More fuel for the McGann as a Plan B to Eccleston rumor mill:
Who's in?, who's out? It seems to be all we're discussing at the moment with almost daily updates on who may be, who is and who isn't returning to Doctor Who for the 50th Anniversary Special.
We know the definites, current Doctor Matt Smith and companion Jenna-Louise Coleman will be there naturally and then the news we'd been waiting for came when the BBC revealed that David Tennant and Billie Piper would be back...
Then came the no shows, with Christopher Eccleston ruling himself out a return. Freema Agyeman and John Barrowman have already said they won't be back and Peter Davison said he though his return to the TARDIS would be unlikely.
Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann also seemed to be resigned to the fact that they wouldn't be asked to appear when they appeared on Australian TV earlier this week.
However since then Paul McGann seems rather more philosophical about whether or not he may be asked and told ZBTV that Steven Moffat may still be making a call to him...
"I think Chris Eccleston is probably a big factor in it. I don't want to speak for him... he's probably reluctant to get involved in anything that's ongoing, so that's something that they have to somehow get over and deal with. I'm guessing they've got time to do it. It's not quite the anniversary yet. The anniversary doesn't start until November.
"Whatever it is that they're planning and they are making, they've got time to do it. It's my feeling [and] this is just a personal thing, once they resolve Chris Eccleston's participation or non-participation either way, then they're free to [figure it out]... Being actors anyway, they'll call us on the Friday and say, 'You're starting on a Monday'."
He added: "We're not going to know until the 11th hour. Half past 11... I can't count the times as an actor, when you're offered something and you start next week!"
Who's in?, who's out? It seems to be all we're discussing at the moment with almost daily updates on who may be, who is and who isn't returning to Doctor Who for the 50th Anniversary Special.
We know the definites, current Doctor Matt Smith and companion Jenna-Louise Coleman will be there naturally and then the news we'd been waiting for came when the BBC revealed that David Tennant and Billie Piper would be back...
Then came the no shows, with Christopher Eccleston ruling himself out a return. Freema Agyeman and John Barrowman have already said they won't be back and Peter Davison said he though his return to the TARDIS would be unlikely.
Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann also seemed to be resigned to the fact that they wouldn't be asked to appear when they appeared on Australian TV earlier this week.
However since then Paul McGann seems rather more philosophical about whether or not he may be asked and told ZBTV that Steven Moffat may still be making a call to him...
"I think Chris Eccleston is probably a big factor in it. I don't want to speak for him... he's probably reluctant to get involved in anything that's ongoing, so that's something that they have to somehow get over and deal with. I'm guessing they've got time to do it. It's not quite the anniversary yet. The anniversary doesn't start until November.
"Whatever it is that they're planning and they are making, they've got time to do it. It's my feeling [and] this is just a personal thing, once they resolve Chris Eccleston's participation or non-participation either way, then they're free to [figure it out]... Being actors anyway, they'll call us on the Friday and say, 'You're starting on a Monday'."
He added: "We're not going to know until the 11th hour. Half past 11... I can't count the times as an actor, when you're offered something and you start next week!"
cboath
Master Member
While i'm not betting on it at all, i think it's possible they already shot their scenes, or know they're doing in the 'xth week in june or something' and doing it somewhere secret and they're just putting out a load of bad information on purpose. Wouldn't put it past them. If you wanna suprise people with a all the doctor's, you don't tell them ahead of time you're doing it, you know?
That said, my money's on 3 total...
That said, my money's on 3 total...
I tend to agree with you. I think secrets are afoot.
Bilious
Active Member
Super excited about the reunion! Haven't read many spoilers, but it brings me the same glee as those old "The Three Doctors" etc etc from back in the day. I always wondered why they hadn't done something like this sooner! 50th anniversary is such a wonderful excuse.
There's a certain level of hokeyness and implausibility I find is important to any good Dr Who anything.
There's a certain level of hokeyness and implausibility I find is important to any good Dr Who anything.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
They're up to something. They're like Hobbits...trixie...false...with pocketses...
SITHcamaro
Well-Known Member
I get the feeling that Tennant will be the only other Doctor in the 50th.
They've already mentioned how the show was more about looking forward to the future, while JLC mentioned of how it pays homage to the past.
Well, unless the 4th doctor has somehow become a woman, I would say that the addition of his scarf is one way to pay homage to a previous doctor. And doing something like this allows them to not need to include aging actors.
Does someone else make mention of wearing a celery stick?
Aside from the 50th special, in today's Cold Wars episode, the Barbie doll. He seemed rather happy to get that back. Perhaps another hint of Susan, does it belong to her? Is she going to be a part of the story again, or is this a string of shout outs to a part of the series past?
They've already mentioned how the show was more about looking forward to the future, while JLC mentioned of how it pays homage to the past.
Well, unless the 4th doctor has somehow become a woman, I would say that the addition of his scarf is one way to pay homage to a previous doctor. And doing something like this allows them to not need to include aging actors.
Does someone else make mention of wearing a celery stick?
Aside from the 50th special, in today's Cold Wars episode, the Barbie doll. He seemed rather happy to get that back. Perhaps another hint of Susan, does it belong to her? Is she going to be a part of the story again, or is this a string of shout outs to a part of the series past?
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
Thoroughly enjoyed "Cold War." Played like classic Who, and the Ice Warriors got just enough of an update to look current while still retaining their classic look.
TimeyWhimyStuff
Well-Known Member
So it has a red setting?
Angelus Lupus
Sr Member
Using almost the original look (just better quality for the HD era) and then showing us under the armour... brilliantly done and I can't help thinking the Silurians should have been re-imagined in a similar way (what with the masks they used in Hungry Earth)
I noticed that. Added to the torch setting that makes three colours for this sonic.
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
Saw that! Had to start somewhere, right?
Agreed. The Silurians would definitely have benefited from such a well thought out design, though I've never thought too poorly of how they were done. But then, I've always kinda dug the new Cybermen as well. *ducks to avoid thrown objects*
cboath
Master Member
That was an Ice Warrior i can get behind!
Seemed like Gatiss liked Aliens a bit, eh? Still, much better take on the ice warriors. I thought they were a joke before. Definitely don't think that now. Though, you gotta wonder why a race so amazing fast, nimble, and sneaky would fashion an armor so big, slow, and obvious...
Seemed like Gatiss liked Aliens a bit, eh? Still, much better take on the ice warriors. I thought they were a joke before. Definitely don't think that now. Though, you gotta wonder why a race so amazing fast, nimble, and sneaky would fashion an armor so big, slow, and obvious...
I too, loved it. Another thing that made it feel so Who is him completely blowing a destination. Reminded me of Seeds of Doom when they were trying to go to the beach. I also got the feeling from this episode that they have had adventures between Rings and Cold War. Something about Clara was weird. Well, a lot of things about her are weird.
Snowmen - She worked at the Rose & Crown
Snowmen - there's a rose on her grave
Asylum - She wears a Rose in her hair
Bells - she got the number from "the girl in the shop"
Bells - Doctor puts roses by her bed
Rings - The date on Clara's mother's grave (3/5/2005) is the day Rose meets #9.
Cold War - Hungry Like The Wolf
Snowmen - She worked at the Rose & Crown
Snowmen - there's a rose on her grave
Asylum - She wears a Rose in her hair
Bells - she got the number from "the girl in the shop"
Bells - Doctor puts roses by her bed
Rings - The date on Clara's mother's grave (3/5/2005) is the day Rose meets #9.
Cold War - Hungry Like The Wolf
