Molds, ownership, and casting.

[GINO]

They recognize accuracy but when it comes to fostering appreciation of what collectors do for the costuming groups, it seems their hands are tied.

Rather conveniently I might add.

.

 

[RBJ]

:thumbsup..I can't agree with Gino and Sith Lord enough.. :confused

 

[Newbie Doobie]

That's why Mark English was able to fool the best of the best Star Trek folks with his replicas, not one of which was cast off an original.

It can be done, it has been done.

Sure it's neat to have stuff that has a direct lineage to the original. But usually that comes at too high a price.

Yes the rules HERE are that you can rob from the studios and not from your fellow members. Sure that makes for an easier environment here.

Doesn't mean we can't strive to do better than that.

I couldn't have said it better! Recasting is the poormans' way of copying,and is still the easiest. Which is why it is so readily accepted! The rules of this forum by law,and by morality(gods law)are hypocritical! I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular,but it's the truth! Stealing is still stealing! There is NO honour among thieves,as there have been many members that have been banned for recasting another members,or another makers work! This happens more often than most of us realize! Just because the few of us that do this haven't been caught YET,that doesn't mean that it isn't happening right under our noses! Stealing from a studio is just as disrespectful,as stealing from another member of this forum! On the other hand,I abide by these rules no matter who takes offense to what I say,or do! I just respectfully decline to recast anyone elses work! This is why so many on this forum that make their own casts,include tagants,or markers so that they can tell when one of their items has been recast by one of the members who claim to live by the non-existent "honour among thieves" code!
The only ones that are offended by this are the same ones that defend this practice! The afore mentioned is why I decline to recast anyone elses work for any reason!

 

[sskunky]

Whilst I see all sides to this discussion I can't help but think that the attitude of "I have an original prop and you can't have a copy" Or "i'm only letting a select few have one" is only contributing to the whole problem of recasting. It all boils down to demand and supply.
If there are only a few let out it leaves a great deal of people without and that means there will always be a black market .
I am not targeting anyone in particular or agreing with it, it's just that it happens to be that way. If something is rare/expensive there will always be copies or bootlegs.
I am not condoning them at all. It seems to happen with everything, not just props.

 

[SithLord]

Whilst I see all sides to this discussion I can't help but think that the attitude of "I have an original prop and you can't have a copy" Or "i'm only letting a select few have one" is only contributing to the whole problem of recasting. It all boils down to demand and supply.
If there are only a few let out it leaves a great deal of people without and that means there will always be a black market .
I am not targeting anyone in particular or agreing with it, it's just that it happens to be that way. If something is rare/expensive there will always be copies or bootlegs.
I am not condoning them at all. It seems to happen with everything, not just props.

I would rather look at the attitude of one being "I have an original prop and am scared ****less that someone will recast it just to make money or sell cheap copies to their trooping buddies". There will always be less expensive alternatives. But just because there are more expensive, more accurate versions doesn't justify the free-for-all attitude. And in the past there have been many accurate, albeit more expensive, pieces available and anyone could purchase them...and they were still recast. So it has nothing to do with scarcity. It is the attitude of those who recast with impunity that creates scarcity of the better pieces, not vice versa.

 

[sskunky]

I would rather look at the attitude of one being "I have an original prop and am scared ****less that someone will recast it just to make money or sell cheap copies to their trooping buddies".

Isn't this what some people that own or have access to original props do?
Again I am generalizing, not targeting.

 

[SithLord]

Sorry I misunderstand...do what? Recast?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I couldn't have said it better! Recasting is the poormans' way of copying,and is still the easiest. Which is why it is so readily accepted! The rules of this forum by law,and by morality(gods law)are hypocritical! I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular,but it's the truth! Stealing is still stealing! There is NO honour among thieves,as there have been many members that have been banned for recasting another members,or another makers work! This happens more often than most of us realize! Just because the few of us that do this haven't been caught YET,that doesn't mean that it isn't happening right under our noses! Stealing from a studio is just as disrespectful,as stealing from another member of this forum! On the other hand,I abide by these rules no matter who takes offense to what I say,or do! I just respectfully decline to recast anyone elses work! This is why so many on this forum that make their own casts,include tagants,or markers so that they can tell when one of their items has been recast by one of the members who claim to live by the non-existent "honour among thieves" code!
The only ones that are offended by this are the same ones that defend this practice! The afore mentioned is why I decline to recast anyone elses work for any reason!

Copying a screen used / production item is NOT easy.

This whole hobby is illegal and stealing from the studios. Scratch built and cast from screen used alike. You are stealing their property and selling it.

Whilst I see all sides to this discussion I can't help but think that the attitude of "I have an original prop and you can't have a copy" Or "i'm only letting a select few have one" is only contributing to the whole problem of recasting. It all boils down to demand and supply.
If there are only a few let out it leaves a great deal of people without and that means there will always be a black market .
I am not targeting anyone in particular or agreing with it, it's just that it happens to be that way. If something is rare/expensive there will always be copies or bootlegs.
I am not condoning them at all. It seems to happen with everything, not just props.

Reason people do this is because of some of the replies such as in this thread. That nothing is sacred. Why should they risk damaging an original screen used piece to make copies available to the hungry public if they just turn around and recast his offering and excuse themselves with: "hey, you don't have the rights, so I can freely recast you and undercut you and you can't whine about it, 'cause you stole from the studio!"

If they don't get the protection from the community, then why should they waste time with making stuff you want available, if you are just gonna recast them anyway and flaunt it right in their face?

But again... is it just me or is this discussion going in circles... and with the same people arguing the same thing as several pages back?

 

[defstartrooper]

I couldn't have said it better! Recasting is the poormans' way of copying,and is still the easiest. Which is why it is so readily accepted! The rules of this forum by law,and by morality(gods law)are hypocritical! I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular,but it's the truth! Stealing is still stealing! There is NO honour among thieves,as there have been many members that have been banned for recasting another members,or another makers work! This happens more often than most of us realize! Just because the few of us that do this haven't been caught YET,that doesn't mean that it isn't happening right under our noses! Stealing from a studio is just as disrespectful,as stealing from another member of this forum! On the other hand,I abide by these rules no matter who takes offense to what I say,or do! I just respectfully decline to recast anyone elses work! This is why so many on this forum that make their own casts,include tagants,or markers so that they can tell when one of their items has been recast by one of the members who claim to live by the non-existent "honour among thieves" code!
The only ones that are offended by this are the same ones that defend this practice! The afore mentioned is why I decline to recast anyone elses work for any reason!

I'm finding it difficult to understand you,where exactly do you draw the line then ? do you only collect licensed props ?
If you scratchbuild props yourself you're still stealing from someone is that level of theft acceptable to you, but making direct copies of a production made prop from a movie or tv show isn't ?
Casting a production made original most certainly isn't the poor mans way of copying or the easiest, scratchbuilding is way cheaper look at the recent BSG auction.
There's items that are regular retail items like watches going for silly amounts of money, you can buy an identical watch anywhere but it's production used and that's where the premium price comes in.
When it's an item that has been produced specifically for the show from scratch what do you do when the option to go out and buy one isn't available ?
It would be far cheaper for someone to purchase their own materials and build their own version than it would to buy an original prop and copy it and a lot easier in many cases.

As for the honour among thieves thing well i can't agree there either i think there is honour among thieves.
Sure there have been people banned from the forum for recasting but not many,go count how many there's a thread on the forum listing banned members and the reasons for banning them.
Count how many are for recasting and compare that with the number of members, its a very low percentage.
You will always get some dishonest people in every walk of life and any group, it would be insane to think the replica prop community was any different but the majority of people here are decent honest people.

 

[SithLord]

Well said, and I will just add that then it is not a defense to say that because everyone recasts or everyone is stealing from the studios that makes it ok. Because as DST pointed out most people respect the recasting rules.

 

[sskunky]

Fair enough, recasting an original prop is accepted recasting that copy isn't. Bottom line. I think we have covered this quite thoroughly now. Although everyone has different views about what is right and wrong, we all like it or not have to abide to some sort of rule to protect the validity of this hobby. We can carry on repeating ourselves (me included) but it ain't gonna change what is accepted by the coc of this prop forum or most others.