Mind-**** Movies!

[NoTsOsErIoUs]

lol:lol

If that is your cup of tea, go for it, but as I said previously, knowing that stuff goes on in real life is more than enough for me. I simply don't want to subject myself to it voluntarily... speaking of, another one is any movie that focuses on violence towards women... just not interested in seeing that. I saw enough of that in the short time I was in law enforcement that I don't want to see it on the big screen (or the small screen)... so, no Lifetime channel for me!

I'd like to make clear, these themes in and of themselves are not "my cup of tea". But I'm an adult and able to handle adult subject matter if I feel they are not gratuitous, in context and much more importantly part of a well made interesting film I'm happy to explore them.
I'm a person that feels art (as a medium) should be challenging, should make us ask questions of ourselves and push the bounderies of societal complacency. Otherwise what is the point?
Is it all just mindless entertainment? Should it all just be the eqivalent of fast food for the brain?

 

[Art Andrews]

I'd like to make clear, these themes in and of themselves are not "my cup of tea". But I'm an adult and able to handle adult subject matter if I feel they are not gratuitous, in context and much more importantly part of a well made interesting film I'm happy to explore them.
I'm a person that feels art (as a medium) should be challenging, should make us ask questions of ourselves and push the bounderies of societal complacency. Otherwise what is the point?
Is it all just mindless entertainment? Should it all just be the eqivalent of fast food for the brain?

Point taken and I don't mind something being challenging or making me think, but for me, there is a difference between something that makes me think or reassess my position on a matter and what essentially is exploitation. Lets take a movie like Last House on the Left. The only "challenging" thing about that movie was to sit through and subject yourself to watching women being raped and defiled. There is nothing to "explore" there. There is nothing to question. You aren't going to grow as a person from seeing that or gain a larger perspective of the world.

I would say the same for Oldboy. Why would you want to watch incest? Does it "challenge" you to watch that or push the boundaries of complacency? Not to me. It was essentially just the same shock value as with other movies like this. Perhaps you see value and benefit from seeing a father and daughter having sex, but I don't.

 

[rollerboi]

Giggity.

 

[NoTsOsErIoUs]

I would say the same for Oldboy. Why would you want to watch incest? Does it "challenge" you to watch that or push the boundaries of complacency? Not to me. It was essentially just the same shock value as with other movies like this. Perhaps you see value and benefit from seeing a father and daughter having sex, but I don't.

Art, I understand what you are saying. I myself have never seen Last House On The Left (original or remake) but thats more to do with the fact that I've an inbuilt feeling that from a film-making point of view it would be a let down.

To lump Oldboy in with Last House is I feel a diservice and a short change. The picture you paint of it is not accurate and far too simplistic. For a start the main protagonists are not aware of thier relationship to each other at the time of thier intimacy (sorry for the spoiler anyone). And of course I don't see benefit in watching incest (thats a bit of low blow to infer mate). If that were the be all and end all of the film then of course I wouldn't even give it five seconds of my time, but thats just not the case here.
Nothing is glamourised here, nothing is painted in a good light. What was orchestrated and perpetrated upon the main protagonist was simply awful, but the film is an exploration and meditation upon the nature of revenge and how it can exculate into a cycle of misery and destruction for all parties involved. In that message I DO see great value and benefit.

 

[Birdie]

Oldboy is about revenge, and the extreme lengths it will drive us to. It isn't about incest, or inviting us to be titillated by it.

If you don't like the way that story is told, that's fine, but comparing Oldboy with crap like LHOTL is disengenuous, imho.

 

[Art Andrews]

While we have already thrown out some spoilers on Oldboy, just want to say, this commentary will be full of them.

I apologize if you felt like my comments were a low blow. It was not my intention.

I can certainly see the value in showing the misery an endless cycle of revenge can bring, but for me, the way in which you get there can sometime overshadow the message and at least for me, that is what this film's story did. I don't want to see a brother pressuring his sister into an incestuous relationship and I sure as heck don't want to see a father and daughter having sex and the fact that you didn't know it until after the fact doesn't do anything but make it feel like a betrayal (to me the viewer) later on in the film. My question on this particular film would be, is that necessary to get across the base point that "revenge may not be all its cracked up to be" or at some point did you swerve off the path and refocus on shocking the audience and creating controversy due to the content vs the message. I feel like this film lost its way and was more about "lets do something shocking" than about sending a message about revenge... If their focus was on revenge, they certainly lost me because all I walked away with was the disgust of the whole double incest thing..

To lump Oldboy in with Last House is I feel a diservice and a short change. The picture you paint of it is not accurate and far too simplistic. For a start the main protagonists are not aware of thier relationship to each other at the time of thier intimacy (sorry for the spoiler anyone). And of course I don't see benefit in watching incest (thats a bit of low blow to infer mate). If that were the be all and end all of the film then of course I wouldn't even give it five seconds of my time, but thats just not the case here.
Nothing is glamourised here, nothing is painted in a good light. What was orchestrated and perpetrated upon the main protagonist was simply awful, but the film is an exploration and meditation upon the nature of revenge and how it can exculate into a cycle of misery and destruction for all parties involved. In that message I DO see great value and benefit.

 

[Art Andrews]

If you don't like the way that story is told, that's fine, but comparing Oldboy with crap like LHOTL is disengenuous, imho.

I feel they are comparable because they are both exploitative and both wanted to show something horrifically shocking and far outside social norms... and if the point is to desensitize the viewer and make these kind of things more palatable so that they don't seem so freakish the next time I see them, well, I have no interest in being desensitized to those kinds of things.

 

[Birdie]

I didn't find Oldboy exploitive, it told a complex tale using some pretty horrific imagary and ideas. If you set out to tell a tale about how corrupted and inhumane a man's soul can become in his need for revenge, well, you can't make an omelete without breaking eggs.

I already stated how much I detested Irreversible (an ordeal of a movie, far more so than Olboy, imo) but I defend the director's success in getting his message across.

Neither movie I would class as 'entertaining', rather they are challenging our attitudes towards violence as entertainment, and the depths we will sink to in our search for 'justice', which becomes distorted beyond recognition.

To me, exploitation entails a desire to titillate or create empathy with vile behaviour, which neither movie does.

 

[NoTsOsErIoUs]

I can not see the exploitation in Oldboy to which you refer. I won't argue that it is shocking. But if it wasn't for what we find out later on in the plot, I would put it to you that that scene taken as itself is one of the most tender and heartfelt scenes of love making ever commited to screen. This is what makes it far more shocking and far less exploitative a film.
Horses for courses.
I guess when all is said and done, I just don't feel the need for every film to be "enjoyable".
I'd personally rather be shocked into thinking than sit there and experiance a vicarious thrill from watching the antics of a "hero". That was fine when I was a child, but as a great man once said "...I have put away childish things". The world is far more shaded in grey than black and white.

But this has really gone off topic now. I respectfully agree to disagree. And I thank you for a cogent and interesting debate.

 

[Art Andrews]

I already stated how much I detested Irreversible (an ordeal of a movie, far more so than Olboy, imo) but I defend the director's success in getting his message across.

Yup. Took a look at Irreversible's info on Netflix and pretty much immediately decided that one wasn't for me.

 

[Goonie]

Just thought of another one...

The Others

Great flick. I want to rewatch it as part of my Halloween movie marathon starting next Saturday.

 

[DARTH SABER]

2001: A Space Odyssey

Dark City

The Shining

A Clockwork Orange

Blade Runner

Brazil

Eyes Wide Shut

The Matrix

Fight Club

Inception

Pan's Labyrinth

American Psycho

 

[stricky1]

Haven't seen it myself yet but sounds promising:

Mr. Nobody

and to a certain extend Shutter Island..

You can either hate it or love it, but I liked the Silent Hill movie pretty much..

 

[Raza Crew]

Also, I think Apt Pupil is a mildly disturbing, yet underrated film.

 

[autoprops713]

These are all pale comparisons to what we sat down together and watched a couple of weeks ago...yep...

Antichrist with Willem Dafoe. Not sure if someone already mentioned this one earlier.

Holy smokes, that film got under my skin for at LEAST a week if not more. I'm still not sure about the ending but I kinda (through my own nightmares) figured out the rest of it. I'm also staying clear of any forest or woods for teh rest of this year.

Make sure you watch it with the wifey, it'll score you major points. :unsure

Dave

 

[crabra comander]

I liked the mind-**** journey that was "Beyond the Black Rainbow"

Some wicked visuals!

Also enjoyed "Enter the Void"

Both are sort of endurance tests for your brain!

 

[The Mad Professor]

I enjoyed Pan's Labyrinth immensely, and that one screws with your head a bit.

 

[Laspector]

I would have to put The Tree of Life in this category. I had never heard of it and just flipped by it on HBO one day and just could not stop watching. That is definately a movie that made me think for the rest of the day.

 

[tain669]

I know the worst mind-***** ever make.. Freddy Got Fingered..:behave

 

[Smantha]

The Dark,
Skeleton Key

in sort of a "don't look for a happy ending because the 'hero' is screwed" sort of way.