Mass Effect 3 Ending, opinions and feelings?

Netflix CEO's could learn a lot from these guys:

MASS EFFECT 3 Criticism Causes Bioware to Release Apologetic Statement | The Daily BLAM!

They messed-up, they acknowledge pubic opinion, and actually say "we're sorry". WOW!

Nicely done.

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And even if the game gets an alternate ending that meets fans expectations (I know, lose/lose), the taint of an ME3 ending will still be strong on any product they'll choose to make.

They've already announced that they're abandoning additional content for Dragon Age II only a solid year after it's release, choosing instead to go full ahead with Dragon Age III. How many times do you think the question "Will it end like ME3?" will pop up? I think that's going to be half the work for the everyone involved right there.

The biggest mistake that the BioWare developers, writers and marketers made when making ME3 was telling the players that their choices mattered. If they didn't say that, the outcry wouldn't have been this big. The only way BioWare can properly prepare for similar criticisms towards Dragon Age 3 is to not market the game as anything but a fantasy RPG. If the element of choice is even mentioned and the players get an ending similar to DAII or ME3, all bets are off. And since Bioware has abandoned Dragon Age II and is going to work on ME3's ending, they probably don't want that to happen.
 
"I believe passionately that games are an art form"

Oh, I do to Ray, but my art collection doesn't normally have this slapped on it.

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Every since DLC was created companies have been finding ways of trying to make people buy them since some DLC just isn't going to sell to everyone (map and weapon packs).
 
I wouldn't put that past EA at all, but I'd be much more disappointed in BioWare if they were part of something like that. It would certainly be more cause of ire than a story ending I didn't like, IMHO.

I would actually welcome that. If the game was rushed to meet a deadline, just say so. I'd rather have Bioware admit that they did that and planned to "fix" things with DLC than believe Bioware, aka writers of the best stories in gaming, made such a lame, lazy ending.


BTW, if people think posts in here are crazy go over and read the suggestions thread on the Bioware board. Some of those people are attempting to get the entire game rewritten. It's nuts. There's things I would have liked to have seen, but were probably cut for some reason. I would have also liked to have seen more of the allies I gained fighting in the end, but that didn't ruin your experience.

Here's what I posted there about keeping the "good ending" and explaining or fixing things with DLC. Hopefully some posts are read by Bioware because the posts are coming in like crazy. I think these things would satisfy most people who complained about the end.

1. - Why was the Normandy fleeing the battle and using a Relay? This made absolutely no sense whatsoever. The Normandy was supposedly the spearhead of the fleet. That would have to be rewritten or if we misunderstood, needs to be clarified. I don't see Joker or anyone on that ship fleeing the battle while friends were in danger.

2. - The Normandy crew needs rescuing. Having all your friends stranded doesn't fly. If it was intended to show the sacrifice victory entailed I'd rather have had the Normany ram a Reaper at FTL to save the Crucible or something that would have been meaningful.

3. - The fate of the Citadel and anyone on it needs to be clarified because in my, supposedly good ending, it looked like the Citadel exploded. It must not have been destroyed because my Shepard survived.

4. A cool DLC would be rebuilding the Mass Relay network. We know the Protheans could build them and the bartender on Illium seems to think the Asari could. In my good ending the Reapers just deactivated so there's a lot of them to study. I'm guessing the races have a lot of research on the Relays, so maybe with Reapers to inspect they could figure it out. The Crucible was built fast so I'm assuming they could get the network up pretty quick. It seems like the Quantum communicators still worked so it's feasible they could coordinate with all the races to get them back up. Also we don't know if the Relays were destroyed or just deactivated.

Stranding everyone that helped Earth just seems like a cruel fate if they can't go home.
 
If nothing else comes out of this the fans who raised all that money for charity did some good.

Edit: I literally donated my last 1.00 to the charity the other day lol.
 
It doesn't matter why fans don't like it, that's my point. When you purchase story driven media you run the risk of not liking the story. You don't go pout on the internet until the great big mean faceless corporation puts a bandaid on it for you. Suck it up, it's a game. If you're that offended by it don't buy their dlc, or their next game.
Paul, normally I'd agree with you. A work of art is created and it's not the responsibility of the artist to answer to those consuming it. From the start, Mass Effect developed an entirely different pact with its customer. This is completely unlike any other medium, or game, in which certain narrative expectations that related to their in-game actions were expected.

The only place this comes up in film is with genre films like westerns or horror films - but there the process between what the producer provides and what the customer wants is a long, iterative process (genre tropes are expected, get stale, transform, etc. over long cycles of films) that doesn't affect the integrity of any one film and doesn't interfere with the presumed autonomy of the production itself. In other words, fans can only react by not liking the film and hope the producers respond to their judgment in subsequent films. As you stated, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

A slightly different analogy would be with serialized fiction (like Charles Dickens) that was released in one-chapter installments, so feedback and response from the reader could come in as the whole narrative was actively being written.

But that still maintains a strict duality between producer/author and consumer, whereas here the game's respect for and built-in means of recognizing the gamer take away the autonomy of the creators in the kind of experience they are providing.

Also, all the rules of narrative from Aristotle down involve certain recognizable and relatively stable story structures, and things that are avant-garde or innovative are always innovative in relation to or against the regular expectations of how story functions (in other words, philosophical coherence, the stable relation of all the parts to the overall whole, resolution that further makes sense of and provides closure to what came before it).

Here, the demands that gamers are making are two-fold: 1) for the game to both recognize and respond to their unique actions, and 2) for the endings to maintain philosophical and narrative consistency with all that came before it.

Maybe the creators felt that these two things worked at odds with one another and to provide satisfying narrative resolution they had to bring all the branching strands created by individual action together into three parallel but structurally similar conclusions...

But that's assuming that the act of story writing for this game was essentially that of a multi-branched narrative, which I don't believe. ME was more complicated than that, where the narrative itself was a consequence of opinion. In this sense, for the Mass Effect franchise, unlike perhaps all other forms of art to this scale, the consumer and artist become one in the same. Maybe that's why the backlash is unprecedented.

This is the best article I've read on the subject:
Mass Effect 3 Ending-Hatred: 5 Reasons The Fans Are Right | GameFront

All of us are of the opinion that fans have or do not have a right for an alternative ending. But I submit that there is objective reasoning justifying the acknowledgement that the ending is pure crap. Whether that acknowledgement turns into a DLC is up to Bioware. But for a game based on player choice and consequence, not having a choice or any consequences in the end is the ultimate kick in the daddybags; a violation of narrative structure.


HOLD THE LINE!


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No one is owed an apology. lol! Now we're getting into fruit loops territory again. These people need to come back to reality.

I think the Star Wars prequels are crap, but I never even thought of demanding or expecting an apology from George Lucas for disappointing me based on my own expectations and because I think they suck.

That is the distinction between having a subjective opinion and believing you're objectively owed something. Crossing that line is not healthy.

BioWare's response to what's often been an irrational backlash has, so far, been very fair and rational. They need to apologize too? For what? For having a vision of the ending to their own story that makes some people mad? Craziness.
 
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Anyone remember those articles stating that Clint Mansell would be scoring Mass Effect 3?

Kotaku

Turns out he only composed one and a half pieces of music for the whole game.
 
Is there really any GOOD ending though? Read this quote and think about it:

"Blue - Control - This is what TIM wanted, and at the end of ME2 I didn’t allow him to get that chance. I destroyed the Collector base. In ME3 he still tries to gain this control.

Green - Synthesis - Really? Then why did I chase Saren across the galaxy and try to stop him from doing this.

Red - Death to all synthetic - Why did I just fight to bring peace to the Quarians and the Geth. What about Edi?

So my choices are admit TIM was right, or admit Saren was right or the Starchild is right and I make Shepard a bringer of genocide to the free thinking VI race that found peace with their creators.

the logic is flawed, quoting Shepard “ there has to be another way”


Pretty much, these were my feelings as well, for a Paragon, lose/lose/lose
 
Anyone remember those articles stating that Clint Mansell would be scoring Mass Effect 3?

Kotaku

Turns out he only composed one and a half pieces of music for the whole game.

Yeah, and it's also one of the most moving and potentially iconic pieces of music from a game in years ("Leaving Earth"). If there is a main theme for this game that's it.

He also co-wrote another track. There were 3 or so teams of composers on this score, and it's all solid stuff.

What's next to complain about or attempt to indict BioWare with? Maybe we can be pissed that the N7 edition didn't come with a frame for the mini Normandy litho. lol
 
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Yeah, and it's also one of the most moving and potentially iconic pieces of music from a game in years ("Leaving Earth"). If there is a main theme for this game that's it.

Yeah, and imagine if he had done the entire game instead of just those moments. Imagine telling the other composers that they'll work on everything else except the scenes where the real pivotal moments occur. At least Star Trek Voyager made it clear that Jerry Goldsmith did the show's Main Theme and not the whole episode/series.

And if I want more of those Inception BRAWWM sound effects to kick me over the head that what I'm seeing is a bad thing, I'll just stick with Inception's trailers.

And while you may consider his opening piece to be the game's main theme, the trilogy as a whole already has one. And Jack Wall didn't just do a couple of pieces and left, he did a lot of music for the first two games. It was a great pity that he wasn't brought back to the series, like so many other talented folks who were there from the beginning.
 
Childs Play charity has come to a close.

While the circumstances behind the charity are certainly going to be met with mixed opinions, it is at least comforting to know that $80,000 was raised. I hope that those idiots who are demanding their money back are very few and are turned away, because I know a lot of gamers out there wanted to do something more productive even if it nothing would come of it.

So to everyone who stands by their donations, you have my sincere thanks. Let's see how this will all turn out.
 
Well, no one can say that the hard core fans demanding the ending to be changed are the only silly ones in this debacle.

Kotaku: "Mass Effect 3 Outcry Answered With a New Ending for a Completely Different Game"

I honestly see no good ending for any party at this point. Fans and BioWare are going to carry this taint for many years to come. It's just gotten ugly. Fans are vilifying other fans, game companies are exercising their control to mock fans, while other gaming companies simply want to stand by their product. What makes this heartbreaking for me is that I understand both sides of everyone's argument. The fans for being so attached to something that they care sincerely about, while BioWare wants to stand by their product in a proud manner. If the fan outcry towards this ending is huge, Bioware will have a mess on their hands with future titles, and if they try to manage the game with more content, it will make BioWare appear like they are giving in to fans way too easily. A literal no-win.

On a Personal note, I think some blame should go to BioWare for involving the fans as much as they did for Mass Effect 3's creation. It started out really well when Bioware announced that they would be showcasing the female Shepard not only on the boxes, but also in some of the trailers. Perfect. However, things got rough when BioWare announced a Facebook poll for what Femshep should look like. Instead of the winning choice being the end of all things, fans complained because they didn't want to see the default Shepard as another Blonde. So Bioware did another poll to decide on the hair color. And even after that, the end result looks only vaguely like what was chosen since the default Shepard in ME3 looks like someone mixed Robert Z'Dar with Jolene Blalock.

In a nutshell, fan involvement is good. Direct fan involvement, not so much.
 
I think in the end it's like your when you were younger and you did something stupid and your parents said they weren't mad, just disappointed. That's how I feel about the entire thing. The ending was not what you would expect out of Bioware, but rather a high school writing class. It was just lazy and some parts just didn't make sense.

Here's an article from PC Gamer that asks several game authors what they think: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/23/mass-effect-3-ending-what-do-game-writers-think/

I'm starting to lean to the "Bioware promised more than they could realistically deliver" side.
 
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There seems to be a disconnect between "stop your whining" and "we want a new ending" crowd.

SYW crowd seems to think WWANE think the ending sucks and feel they're entitled to something they like. Subjective.

Lots of people in the WWANE crowd really are of this opinion. 1) Not liking the ending is not a legitimate reason to change the ending. As some have said, it's BioWare's ending, deal with it. 2) It's everyone's right to complain about anything in this world, and if you provide sufficient motivation for others (monetarily, morally) to affect an outcome, you've entered into the realm of democracy/free markets as long as no one is being forced into action.

Many people in the WWANE crowd understand that the ending, while subjectively unsatisfying, contains an objectively flawed narrative. They're not just waving the "objective flag" with subjective reasons. As I pointed out in my previous post, in the final moments of the game, BioWare diverged from the core story philosophies and system covenants that they maintained for 2.99 games. These WWANE don't want a new ending because they were unhappy; they simply know the game is not whole--there's no harmony. It's as if the final moments had different writers or creative and technical processes. Very unusual QA.

I'm indifferent over the ending at this point. If they offer an alternate, great. If not, oh well. But I will always know that the original ending is structurally dissonant.

If anyone in the SYW crowd can state how the ending is consonant with the 2 games and 40 hours before the last 8 minutes, please speak up.
 
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