Mask tutorial NEEDED

[maverick118]

Looks good, nice to see someone concentrating on getting the thing right before jumping in with the texturing and detailng. Only one critique to make....Beef the neck up. I'm assuming you'll be wearing this? If so I think you're neck and that of a wig holder might be a bit different in measurement I have to agree with the comment on the dread holes. the need to be angled a bit more. It'll help with the way the actual dreads hang when you come to fit them. Othere than what I've said, nice work keep it up.

 

[kriker]

i'm guessing the holes need to be angled up slightly?

Great job.... The problem with unaccurate bios is the difficulty fitting it with a bio isnt it? I'm still looking for exact pred 1 specs ^^

 

[wisdom]

Mannowar> yeah, you´re right - I angled them yesterday ... thanks

Maverick118> thanks for your comment, but:
1) neck -yes, the neck is a little bit longer than my real, but I did it purposely, because I learned somewhere that neck for mask may be longer because of bad ending when mask is created, which is cutted with scissors ... but it´s good idea to make it shorter - I´ll do it.
2) dread holes - I think Mannowar talked about quills holes, not dreads holes ... when I´m lookin on other sculpts I see same dread holes as my ... I thought that desired angle I´ll make inside when I´ll cut the holes (and in other way, dreads will be flexible, so they will hang down automatically) ... Problem is that dredads holes are dry, so I cannot reculpted them :/

 

[maverick118]

Not shorter bud, wider. Making the neck longer than really required I can understand as you can trim away excess to fit your own neck, but making it a slender as you have could cause problems when you come to wear the piece. When I sculpt I use a lifecast either of myself if it is a personal project or that of the clinet...I build up a thickness of clay of around an 1/8 of an inch all over before adding anything else to it if it's a mask...When you cast a piece in latex depending on how you do it you can lose up tp 10% of your original size as the latex cures fully < I have seen more shrinkage of late but that might be down to a bad batch of latex> always give yourself a margin of safety to compensate for any errors.

As for your dreads, sculpt them with the diameter of backer rod your using in mind....One thing if you're using water baased clay, don't let it dry out fully...It'll crack and spilt...Get your self a spray bottle like you have for cleaning the windows with, fill it with water and damp the clay down periodically so the clay remains damp...at the tend of the day cover it with paper towels and then spray them over with some water and then cover the lot with a plastic bin bag....It'll save a lot of heart ache if you use water clay like you are...Anything else you need to know just post away. I may not be as active a member here as I was in the old lair days but I pop in once in a while now...If you post up I'll try and answer anything you need to know.

 

[wisdom]

thanks a lot maverick ...

so:

- the neck is about 2 cm wider than my (before I started sculpting I checked my head with inch-tape and have it in mind all the time), but maybye I´ll make it wider for sure

- with diameter of dreads holes you´re right, because I didn´t think about it - I tooked wine cork and made holes ... one thing is that I don´t know way to make dreads now ... I´ll plan think about it later, when I´ll have the mask ... but maybye I´ll make them in the same way as mask - clay sculpt-mold-latex ... so now I´m little confused what to do with that holes :/ ... and don´t know what sort of material is backer rod in my country :/

- all the time I sprayed my sculpt with water and covered it with plaster bag ... and now I did the same ... till I´ll make the mold ... but paper towels? is it necessary? I´m affraid about destroying my sculpt?

The main thing is that I´m very affraid about molding and cannot find any tips or photos about it.
I saw some photos and videos about molding human head, but pred head is more complicated (mainly frond side).
The only think that I know is molding lower big teeth base separately (so I did them separately).

THANKS FOR HELP

 

[maverick118]

Okay sounds like you've got the neck covered thickness wise...If you plan on making your own dreads you should be okay once again...Use wodden doweling of varying thicknesses and lengths and taper the ends off. No need to sculpt them as before.

Paper twels aren't strictly needed, I use them as often I work on a personal project than have to switch to a commission...Using paper towles means I can leave my own work for a few days without needing to keep an eye on it all the time.

Molding is the pain in the butt of mask making...But something you'll need to know....You could do worse than looking at buying MonsterMakers handbook

 

[Mannowar]

If you're only looking at a 2 cm. difference in neck width, you should definintely fatten it up a bit... you have to take into account the latex shrinkage. Although, I guess if you're going to split it up the back a bit anyway, to get it over your head, it really won't matter. And yes, I was talking about quills, not dreads... dread holes look fine to me.

 

[wisdom]

Many thanks maverick and mannowar too.

Yesterday, I made small head sculpt ... it tooked 3 hours and looks like a his BIG BROTHER
It´ll be used to train molding and I needn´t to worry about destroying it

But I have next two questions:

1) how to make molding wall (on water based clay sculpt)? from which material and how to apply it (it looks like a digged into clay? but it remains holes?)

2) how to plan bio? I mean - now I have head sculpt and need to sculpt bio, which will fit to this head - so how to get right proportion? One theory I know is wait for latex mask, put it on manequeen, cover it with foil and sculpt bio over that ... is it right? is there another (better) ways?
Mainly I need to know, if is necessary to plan bio now, with this head sculpt, cause when I´ll mold it, it´ll be destroyed and won´t be a way to make it.

Thanks for helping me on this process ... I hope you´ll be satisfied with finished mask
I couldn´t wait for it )))))) But I need to be patient and don´t rush out it...

 

[wisdom]

PLEASE HELP!!! I tried make mold of my little pred head and it was terrible!
For the first, plaster dried in bucket very fast and for the second, I couldn´t get it into mounth (it stream down)!
So I have two new questions:

1) how to prepare/work with plaster for mold?
2) how to apply plaster on head sculpt (mainly mounth)?

Please help me! I need to know it till tomorrow, because it´ll be last day when I can mold it...
Photos will be more helpful.

MANY THANKS!!!

 

[Mannowar]

I have a trick for your plaster problem. But, first things first... For the mold wall, you first need to build the basic mold wall... make it as flat as possible. Don't forget to put in registration marks around the mold wall about 1" from the outside of your sculpt. I use KleenKlay for my sculpts and WedClay for the mold wall. Wed clay doesn't adhere to the KleenKlay real well, so when I remove the mold wall, it comes right off, leaving little residual on the sculpt. For clean seam lines, take a small brush and some alcohol and lightly brush the mold wall up to the sculpt, making sure to get in every nook and cranny. I suppose if you're using water based clay exclusively, you could even use water in place of alcohol... Be careful not to make too much contact with the sculpt. Your brush strokes should be on the mold wall only, brushing up to the sculpt.

As for the plaster, you may have mixed it improperly. However, if you mixed it properly, I have a trick someone showed me for keeping your plaster "alive" about 3 times longer than normal... First, sift your plaster into your water. Let it set for 5 or 10 minutes without doing anything. Now mix. I use my hands to mix rather than stirring or mixing. Squeeze the plaster through your fists. It only takes a few seconds doing it this way and you don't get clumps this way either...

When applying your plaster to the sculpt, you'll first want to brush a layer over the entire section you're working with... Then dribble the remaining plaster over the brushed on layer. This is the point where most people run into problems with the plaster setting up in the container before they're even done brushing. Here's where the trick comes into play...

Wherever you dip the brush in for the first time, continue to take your brush loads and ultimately, your dribble layer loads from the exact same spot everytime. Don't just take plaster from anywhere in the container. When you take from random spots, you allow air into various points of your container, thus speeding the setting process. Work from one end of the container to the other, continuing to take from relatively the same spot. Your brush loads can always come from the same spot. Once you start the dribbling, eventually, you'll have to work your way back. You'll be amazed at how much alive time you have to work with. Give it a try... I think you'll be pleased.

Don't forget when you do you're big version, to layer some burlap for reinforcement, once you get a couple layers built up. Let me know if this helped and how you liked the plaster trick.

 

[Bovine13]

I bought the video from Mark Alfry mold amking and casting. It is great check it out.

 

[wisdom]

Thanks a lot Mannowar, I´ll try some tricks with plaster before applying it.
If I understand right, first layer is thick and applied with brush?
But still I don´t know one thing - how to apply plaster in problem areas as mounth ... it´s impossible to get plaster into into it (it leaks down)... so maybye I need to sculpt lay down? but it´s weight many kilos, so I´m worried to do this - so how?

Bovine13> Yes, I want all DVD set from Mark Alfry, but it´s little difficult to buy it for me. Expensive and very long shipping. For all that I´m planning to buy whole DVD set .... but now, I need quick help today ...
... maybye, if you (or someone else) can rip small molding part of this video (which shows me how to work and apply plaster), it´ll very helpful ...
I know it sounds like a illegal thing, but because I´m planning to do many masks with water clay, I swear I´ll buy it early, and this rip will only help me now

Thanks all

 

[maverick118]

Okay, first things first, when laying up a plaster mold you need to do it in batches...As Manowar says you can build a clay dividing wall. I use brass shims as it gives a tighter fit and means less seaming now, I also place clay strips along the eged of the shims, these act as a flange and mean less leakage if your molding material has more expansion that you really want.

Materials needed

A good plaster, crystacast A is what I used when doing a stone mold

A set of scales

A flexible container or bowl for mixing the plaster...Flexible as it makes for easier clean up when the plaster dries, you simple flex the bowl and the dried plaster crumbles away and you can then throw the dried plaster away.

A box of disposable rubber gloves...

A set of cheap chip brushes...you'll go through these quite quickly when molding even when cleaning them.

Burlap strips or sack cloth cut into strips...or plaster bandages

Vasaline....

A big plastic sheet to cover the floor with so you don't get any mess on anything other than the sculpt.

Old clothes....Don't want to get covered in plaster in your best duds.

First, you need to seal the sculpt with an acrylic sealer...I use Crystal Clear...This seals the sculpt and will prevent the heating proccess that occurs when using plaster or gypsum, from leaching moisture from the sculpt and will prevent it cracking. Next you'll need to lay your sculpt down at an angle...This shouldn't be a problem with your pred, as if any damage to the back occurs it'll be easy to re-sculpt, and will most likely be where the dread holes are and they will be covered with your dreads and not be seen...Next build up your dividing wall try and keep it at 90 degrees to the sculpt. Next comes the registration keys...When first starting out doing this I used ping pong /table tennis balls cut in two for this. Simply pack them with a little clay and push them into the clay that forms your dividing wall and voila instant keys. Once all this is 
done I tend to buld a wall around the the dividing wall...This prevents
the plaster running off on the floor, then add some small slabs of clay to the edge of the wall away from the sculpt and at the edge of the wall...just big enough so that once the mold is cured you can get a large screwdrive or prybar into it, these will be your pry points that you'll use to open the mold once both halves are done....
Use your tools to smooth out the clay of the wall and to make sure you get a nic
e tight seal all around the 
sculpt and the wall. Now you're ready to mix your plaster. 

Mix up your plaster/stone as per the instructions on the bag....that's where the scales come in...Sift it over your bowl with the amount of water recommended by the instructions 

 

[Ralic]

I plan to start very soon
When i get enough money hehe.

But anyway, very nice work.
Man, if i could make something as good as this on my first try, i would be very happy.

Practice makes perfect, keep practicing!

Also. Whats the full name of the mark alfrey dvd you bought. Theres a few, and i want to buy only the necessary ones.

 

[wisdom]

Oh, maverick, it´s great post ... it´s very helpful, so many many thanks to you!!!
I think, you and mannowar are makeing this topic very helpful for beginners and we´ll delete "needed" from topic name early

But, I´ve started molding before you added your last post. So I make my own, little different way.
I found some mold tutorial here and I make my way with this.

Ok, here is my process:

First thing, my wall.
Because I´m using water based clay, I cannot use it to make wall.
One way is cover clay wall wtih plastic foil, which prevent stick it to sculpt.
It works on normal head, but with pred not. Because wall on back side hang with no support - so it falls down.
I throw away clay and thinking about cards wall - but haven´t cards
I think up new wall material, which everyone have - CD/DVD paper boxes!
Look at the first two pics for this wall ...

Second thing is that I started molding back part first.
Because it can be easily done in vertical postion and there can be some errors (dreads will cover it)
When it´ll cured, I can lay down sculpt on back molded side and front face part will be in horizontal position.
It´ll be very easy to fill every problem areas as mount and eyes
Look at the seconf two pics for back side mold ...

Now, I´m waiting for cure back part. Bad thing is, that I used about 6 kilos of plaster, and not have more
I hope I´ll buy it today yet and make front part of mold.I´ll post pics when it´ll be finished.

So, thanks again for great Maverick post and hope that this topic will give every first time predator good informations to start.

 

[maverick118]

Using the dvd cards isn't a bad idea....But it's card....and the wet plaster will turn it to mush.....If you had waited, I'd have posted up another method that used a similar thing, plastic coated playing cards. The other thing I did but neglected to mention as I was in a rush to post up...Was that I used masking tape on the brass shims to tape them together and form one even surface...But you've not done a bad job...Uisng six kilos of plaster isn't a lot. My last head sculpt weighed 40kilos.. I hope you sealed the clay as I said, otherwise all your hardf work could be for nought....Remember when you remove the cards tou seal the groove that's been made and retexture the area before going to do the front half.

 

[wisdom]

You´re right maverick and I expected it ... but this boxes have outer side like a playing card, so I used this side opposite plaster.
When I removed wall, this cards was little weaky, but it done good job (yes, only as reserve solution).
You can see removed wall on first picture.

Then, next pics show finished mold (yes, I tooked a car and went to hobby store for 15kg of plaster ).

I finished it a few minutes before (about 11 p.m. in my timezone) and I´m totally ruined - I worked on it from morning
Now I´m going to bed a leave it cured till tomorrow evening, when I´ll came from work and I´ll open it.
I hope it will stay in one piece (two pieces ) and the mold will be good ... but I think that will be a catastrophe

I think you´re curious too, so watch this topic and you´ll see how it will looks

 

[maverick118]

Looks like you've done a good job there....Thoight the outer parts of the mold do look a tad thin...A good rule of thumb is to make you'r molds around an inch...hmmm...About 3-4cm thick all over when working in stone...Silicone and fibreglass are a differnt matter....Just be very gentle when prying it apart... Still for a first timer, you've done a great sculpt and the mold looks good too. Nice work.

 

[wisdom]

So, as I said, here is photos of next process - separated mold.

It was same ***king work as molding, but I did it

Yesterday, I tried to open it, but it was still damp and it mouldered.
So I only removed outer layer of plaster until I saw separation line and waited to another day.

Today I opened it - it takes some pieces of plaster fall off, but only on edge, so main mold stayed in piece.
Only small back part broke during opening (as you can see on photo).
But it still hang on bandage and it´s connected with mold.
I think it´s not a problem, cause it can be repaired easily. And btw it´ll be under dreads and it can be little inaccurate.
I´ll try put together it with hot glue tomorrow - plaster don´t work.

Next horrible thing was removing clay from face part (mainly manidbles).
During it I destroyed some details but I think that it´ll be still good mask
Next time I´ll do it separately (as member Ruffkintoy here)

So, I think, I done good job for my first time
I still can´t belive what I´ve done - I thought I can´t make my own mask without experience...but thanks to this forum and friend in my country who makes horror masks for his films, I´m doing it! (and maybye some kind of talent)

Now, I ´m only going to make some repairs and cleaning of mold and then wait to fully cure.
Next week I´m going on holiday, so I´ll continue with latex when I´ll return (about 14th of July).

Stay with me and return fro next progressssssssss.

I´m so cloooooooseeeeee ...

 

[Mannowar]

Nice to see people taking the innitiative to make a mask, ask for help in the forums and then put it to good use. NICE JOB for your first time!!!!! Keep it up!