Maltese Falcon
- Thread starter Kwally89
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GeordieIndy
Sr Member
What??? No more pics of your revised bird before it goes to mold so we can give it another thorough check over??
Ozy, I know I have said it before but I will say it again. Thank you for listening to us and taking our positive criticism and working with us the way you have. It has been a pleasure watching and being part of this thread!
Cheers,
Andy
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GeordieIndy
Sr Member
Pappy, I see what you are saying with your A, B & C....
I have added another few pics to show what I see:
On the original you can see the chest slopes down into the body, which lines up with the feather I have marked as seen here:
OZ, on your bird your chest comes into the body too high which makes the legs look too long. I think your birds chest should come into the body further down to the bottom red line I have drawn, which will then line up with the feather where the line is drawn from, as seen here:
Another thing I have noticed, although I might be missing this because of the light and angle, is the small indentation as seen here:
I couldn't quite pick this out on your bird?
Thanks,
Andy
I have added another few pics to show what I see:
On the original you can see the chest slopes down into the body, which lines up with the feather I have marked as seen here:
OZ, on your bird your chest comes into the body too high which makes the legs look too long. I think your birds chest should come into the body further down to the bottom red line I have drawn, which will then line up with the feather where the line is drawn from, as seen here:
Another thing I have noticed, although I might be missing this because of the light and angle, is the small indentation as seen here:
I couldn't quite pick this out on your bird?
Thanks,
Andy
I love the amount of obsession in this thread...though a lot of it seems to be amounting to "Your replica isn't the real thing." Of course it isn't, but it's effing fantastic, is what it is. Personally it seems that the body-slope issue is down to the angle of the photo, and the only thing I'd say needs tweaking is the pedestal. But if we're going to critique this down to millimetric accuracy, saying, "The two feathers on the right side of the birds face are two millimeters too far forward," this project will never be done. Could some things be tweaked? Of course, but I think if I cast directly from the screen-used bird and didn't tell you guys, you could still find things "wrong" with it.
Thanks for putting up with the fanaticism, Ozy. Whether you change anything or not, it still a piece I would kill (not literally) to own.
-Nick
Thanks for putting up with the fanaticism, Ozy. Whether you change anything or not, it still a piece I would kill (not literally) to own.
-Nick
Intermezzo
New Member
Been following this thread (aka lurking) for a while. Can't wait to see a finished casting!
lastdiplomat
Well-Known Member
I was able to find a higher quality clip of the uncrating video of the lead bird at the National Firearms Museum that was posted earlier. Thought some others might enjoy seeing it. You can see a lot more detail on the prop, and it might help with size, dimensions, patina, and other details not seen in the auction photos and film stills: Maltese Falcon Uncrating Video
GeordieIndy
Sr Member
I will be the first to admit when it comes to props I do obsess over the smallest of details, right down to millimeters... For me I know I could never afford to purchase the real prop but I do everything I can when buying props to get the next best thing.
For me personally I would never say what I am thinking or heading towards with regards to OZ's Falcon is "Your replica isn't the real thing." I think he is doing a fantastic job, and I know even the best prop makers can stare for hours at their props and miss or overlook certain details.
I think while we have someone as skilled as OZ working on this, why not spend that little bit longer getting this the best it can be. Now I know that's easy for me to say as I am not the one working on this bird..... But I think he is so close in getting this right it would be a shame to rush towards the end.
I think also the pressure is on because the MK Falcon has held the crown for so long, as far as being the best replica out there. I have nothing against the MK Falcon, but I do think OZ's has the potential to be the best replica once it is finished!!
Since looking even harder at all the pics today I have noticed more small details of the feathers on the top of the left wing that could be changed. But for now I will trust in the changes that OZ said he has already made and wait to see the revised bird.
Like I say, I do seriously obsess in trying to get all the fine details as close as I can, not just because I want a great prop, it's just the way my mind works....:$
btw, thanks for the link lastdiplomat!
Andy
Lancer
Sr Member
that's cool pricing. I'll keep my eyes out for this to be announced, just hope shipping to the UK isn't too much
Ozymandius
Sr Member
This is mostly addressed to Andy, but I'll post it publiclly so that everyone can understand where I'm coming from on this.
The reason for drawing the line and saying "I've done enough, time to go to mold" is one of pure economics. When it comes to sculptural work, time is literally money. I could easily spend another 4 weeks going over this dingus with a set of dial calipers until every square centimeter was exaclty right in height, width, depth, and curvature. But if I did that, the end product would be so expensive that only a tiny handful of people could afford it. And I don't want that.
I am not going to get rich on this job, and I think my decisions on pricing are pretty well proof of that. This sculpt is my homage to one of the greatest films of the 20th century and I want to be able to share that with everyone that still remembers what great artistry in cinema can be. And I will not exclude anyone just because they are on a tight budget.
So my decision is very simple. I can either spend two months going for absolute perfection, knowing that only about 20 or so people will ever be able to share it. Or I can get pretty damn close to perfect, and share it with everybody.
Now if you or anyone else wants to pony up the cash to pay for one perfected all the way, I'll be happy to do the job. But until then, this is where it ends.
The reason for drawing the line and saying "I've done enough, time to go to mold" is one of pure economics. When it comes to sculptural work, time is literally money. I could easily spend another 4 weeks going over this dingus with a set of dial calipers until every square centimeter was exaclty right in height, width, depth, and curvature. But if I did that, the end product would be so expensive that only a tiny handful of people could afford it. And I don't want that.
I am not going to get rich on this job, and I think my decisions on pricing are pretty well proof of that. This sculpt is my homage to one of the greatest films of the 20th century and I want to be able to share that with everyone that still remembers what great artistry in cinema can be. And I will not exclude anyone just because they are on a tight budget.
So my decision is very simple. I can either spend two months going for absolute perfection, knowing that only about 20 or so people will ever be able to share it. Or I can get pretty damn close to perfect, and share it with everybody.
Now if you or anyone else wants to pony up the cash to pay for one perfected all the way, I'll be happy to do the job. But until then, this is where it ends.
TheGanzman
New Member
I will also say this, as reinforcement to Ozy's comments vis a vis "the camera lens". I look at 1958-1960 Gibson Les Paul Sunburst guitars; I'm lucky enough to have held about a hundred of 'em in my hands. When it comes to authenticating these guitars, the camera is categorically NOT your friend; especially if you're depending on it for validation of certain details, angles, etc. I've been "tricked" a few times by extremely good photos into pronouncing a given guitar to be a fake - then, when I had the subsequent opportunity to actually examine the guitar "in hand", I was amazed, embarrassed, and humbled by JUST how much the camera had fooled me. I'm not saying that some of the various minutiae that have been brought up are wrong, I'm just saying that photos ain't the be-all end-all. By analogy, it's just like HOW you say something can give that something two completely different meanings; example: "Excuse me - I need to go help my Uncle Jack off a horse." "Excuse me - I need to go help my Uncle Jack-off a horse."
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
lastdiplomat
Well-Known Member
Kinda says it all for me:
And Ganzman, that sentence almost made me spit my drink. Hilarious!
And Ganzman, that sentence almost made me spit my drink. Hilarious!
I can totally appreciate this. But please hear me out. If this was an Iron Man helmet or a prop from a lesser acclaimed film I would be all for it, but unfortunately this is THE prop. Basically this is the "Golden Idol" of its era. IF you spent a little more time on this and did what needed to be done, then your overall return would be greater (over time).
Only one other member has come close to doing this bird correctly and you have surpassed them. If you took the time now to do it right, then you could easily set your name in stone along with this prop, in the history of the replica prop making.
It's your choice but I urge you to rethink your decision!
Ozymandius
Sr Member
Let me remind you that I already stated some time ago that there would be NO critiquing of the sculpt before going to mold, and THIS is exactly the reason why.
I stated very clearly that I had found dozens of inconsistencies between the auction photos and the screen captures and that I had already accounted for all of them. And I warned you that all you would be doing was pointing out "problems" that I already knew about, and had already dealt with. And that is precisely what you have done.
Since I posted pics of the clay sculpt, not one person, NOBODY, has pointed out a single issue that I was unaware of. Most people that did, either in open forum or PM, were tremendously polite and helpful. But a few people have opted instead to be condescending, obnoxious, and flat-out rude, and I have tried my damndest to hold my tongue and remain civil. But calling my professionalism into question is over the line.
I have spent the past month pouring over these photos and comparing them to the sculpt from every conceivable angle. I've blown the photos up to full size and measured every milimeter with dial calipers. I have spent entire days on a single square inch to make sure it was dead on perfect! With the possible exceptions of Adam Savage and MK, there is no one living that knows this bird better than me. And yet you seriously think that you are going to scan over a photo for a few minutes, not knowing a damn thing about sculpture or camera optics, and find something that I haven't? Seriously?
My apologies to everyone else on this thread for my outburst. This is the very situation I have been trying desperately to avoid. I've been insulted again and again, and each time I've tried to respond with good humor, but enough is enough.
This project has been my dream for the past 20 years, and to see it turn to this is just...sickening.
Oz
I stated very clearly that I had found dozens of inconsistencies between the auction photos and the screen captures and that I had already accounted for all of them. And I warned you that all you would be doing was pointing out "problems" that I already knew about, and had already dealt with. And that is precisely what you have done.
Since I posted pics of the clay sculpt, not one person, NOBODY, has pointed out a single issue that I was unaware of. Most people that did, either in open forum or PM, were tremendously polite and helpful. But a few people have opted instead to be condescending, obnoxious, and flat-out rude, and I have tried my damndest to hold my tongue and remain civil. But calling my professionalism into question is over the line.
I have spent the past month pouring over these photos and comparing them to the sculpt from every conceivable angle. I've blown the photos up to full size and measured every milimeter with dial calipers. I have spent entire days on a single square inch to make sure it was dead on perfect! With the possible exceptions of Adam Savage and MK, there is no one living that knows this bird better than me. And yet you seriously think that you are going to scan over a photo for a few minutes, not knowing a damn thing about sculpture or camera optics, and find something that I haven't? Seriously?
My apologies to everyone else on this thread for my outburst. This is the very situation I have been trying desperately to avoid. I've been insulted again and again, and each time I've tried to respond with good humor, but enough is enough.
This project has been my dream for the past 20 years, and to see it turn to this is just...sickening.
Oz
Contec
Master Member
Let the man mold his bird alone, Then (maybe) after he has been able to sell them he might make Version 2.0.
It's not like it's the "ULTIMATE edition, no more replica will EVER again be made". Just look at the history of the lightsabers, 10 years ago people bought the "correct" replica but then someone else come up with a new version that is more "accurate" AND SO ON...
I understand that people are anal retentive when it comes to this bird but what Ozymandius is trying to say is "Too many cooks spoil the broth"
Im really happy that you made the bird and it is the very best thing that exists unless you have money to buy the original. Which you might be able to do when you have sold the one's you molded
It's not like it's the "ULTIMATE edition, no more replica will EVER again be made". Just look at the history of the lightsabers, 10 years ago people bought the "correct" replica but then someone else come up with a new version that is more "accurate" AND SO ON...
I understand that people are anal retentive when it comes to this bird but what Ozymandius is trying to say is "Too many cooks spoil the broth"
Im really happy that you made the bird and it is the very best thing that exists unless you have money to buy the original. Which you might be able to do when you have sold the one's you molded
Intermezzo
New Member
For me, the attached say it all.
I agree with Oz. His chicken is done...
I agree with Oz. His chicken is done...
sctcarts
Sr Member
I think it's beautiful work Oz, and you should be proud! You could spend a lifetime trying to "correct" every flaw anyone might call into question - bottom line is you've created incredible piece of art, and it you feel it's ready, it's ready.
Looking forward to the seeing the first cast, and hat's off to you for one hell of a job!
Looking forward to the seeing the first cast, and hat's off to you for one hell of a job!
Stefan Jones
Sr Member
The falcon is a beauty ! well done !
lastdiplomat
Well-Known Member
Heh, I wasn't sure if everyone caught what I did. I actually Photoshopped Oz's unfinished/unpainted bird into that screencap from the movie to show just how close it looks even at that stage. I think it managed to fool some people, and that's why it says it all!
Mind you the scale/angle is off and I accidentally removed a bit of the beak, but here they are side by side (Oz's on the left; original on the right):
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