Luke is a tool in ROTJ and Chewbacca is buck naked. SW Overthunk.
- Thread starter thegreatgalling
- Start date
I think Luke was capable of beating Vader, no problem. Anakin/Vader is significantly weaker in the Force than Anakin (all human, no mechanical parts) was. I seriously doubt that they would send Luke if Luke had no chance against Vader AND the Emperor. That doesn't make sense. Luke is Anakin's son, so I'm guessing Luke has an astronomical midi-thingy count. He may not have had as much training, but maybe his natural skill with the Force would let him win. I also doubt that Obi Wan and Yoda's plan was for Luke to turn Vader to help him. If they did they were putting on a really good show of how impossible that was.
thegreatgalling
Master Member
^True...but Luke sensed some good in Vader. And it's possible Old Obi Wan sensed it too. Also, Padme's last words to Obi Wan were about the good in Anakin, thus putting it in his head.
Also, I think it's possible Yoda and Obi Wan had an idea he could be turned due to the simple fact they both believed he was the chosen one and would eventually fulfill the prophecy after all.
I do see your point though.
Also, I think it's possible Yoda and Obi Wan had an idea he could be turned due to the simple fact they both believed he was the chosen one and would eventually fulfill the prophecy after all.
I do see your point though.
I just love the big-ass mind F Yoda does to Luke:
ESB: Don't leave, you haven't finished training, you shouldn't face Vader.
ROTJ: Your training's done, but you won't be a Jedi until you face Vader.
At that point Luke should've said "when 900 years old YOU reach, make a lick of sense you do not!"
ESB: Don't leave, you haven't finished training, you shouldn't face Vader.
ROTJ: Your training's done, but you won't be a Jedi until you face Vader.
At that point Luke should've said "when 900 years old YOU reach, make a lick of sense you do not!"
thegreatgalling
Master Member
Yeah, that was kind of bogus, but I took it to mean that unless Luke sharpened the mental discipline he severely lacked (he was rude, rash, etc.) that he was an easy prey to be turned. Once he completed his training, and he becomes the eunuch monk we see in ROTJ, he is at a much better place to kill Vader. :lol
thegreatgalling
Master Member
Ah right.
So Yoda is senile. :lol
So Yoda is senile. :lol
thegreatgalling
Master Member
Yeah, the jedi seem kind of shady in the OT. They lie like rugs!!
From a certain point of view my behind!
From a certain point of view my behind!
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
Here's one I can't wrap my head around.
How, exactly, did Anakin bring balance to the force? Balance implies equal and opposite sides...he ELIMINATED the active Dark side.
How, exactly, did Anakin bring balance to the force? Balance implies equal and opposite sides...he ELIMINATED the active Dark side.
Lucas has said that balance, for the Jedi, means the absolute destruction of the Sith. So no Sith = balance. As I've said more times than I can count on here, the Force is in living things. The Sith destroy life, so it wouldn't make sense that the Dark side is a normal side of the Force. It's more like a cancer.
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
:confused
I kinda get what you're saying, but as I understand the nature of The Force, the only difference in practice between the Jedi & Sith is that while the Jedi allow the Force to work through them, the Sith store it somehow, and make it work for them.
The Sith don't act with the intent of destroying living things, they act with the intent of controlling them. ie. They are self serving and evil. Not dead, or the bringers of death.
If "Uncle George" says it, I guess it must be accepted as how it is, but personally, I don't think he put much thought into that line, and he was back peddling when he said that.
Plain and simple, "Good" isn't good if there is no evil. Balance.
Jm419
Sr Member
Nah. Anakin already brought balance to the Force. Anakin + Palpatine = Obi-Wan + Yoda. That happened in III. Anakin destroyed the Sith in ROTJ, so he's kinda the Sith'ari, too. (That Bane thing was a load of bunk.) He was supposed to reunite the Sith, or something, by destroying them - which he did. When Palpatine's the last Sith, he's obviously united with himself, for however brief a time. 
Cobalt60
Active Member
here's my take: mostly copy/pasted from another thread
Balance had nothing to do with limiting both sides to a roster of 2 members each:
a jedi who uses the force to enact the will of the force = balance
a jedi who uses the force to enact the 'will of the people',
(when the people have been corrupted by the Politics of Fear), = imbalance.
"
the Jedi caused imbalance in the force, when the Jedi Order was created, as an arm of the galactic senate.
from this moment, the jedi stopped following the will of the force. they followed the will of the people.
they defined "Good" as the Common Good (as per the opera scene in EP3), and anything 'selfish' as "Evil".
they swore to uphold the "will of the people" through democracy and the galactic senate....
(( note: eventually, the will of the people was corrupted by politics until it matched the 'selfish' will of the Sith Lord;
the jedi found themselves using the force to fight a never-ending war for national security, driven by the people's Fear.
they were "using the force" AGAINST ITS WILL -- this causes imbalance in the force ))
....and the Force responded, by spawning its Chosen One, to wipe out ALL force users who were NOT following the will of the force: Jedi AND sith, alike.
((the jedi were doomed by their connection to the galactic senate -- which was introduced to the audience as "corrupt" in TPM -- they should NEVER have allowed this corrupt body to "guide their actions"))
only qui-gon used the force to enact the will of the force, even when it went against the council (and the senate).
he did not define "good" as the Common Good, as determined by popular vote.
he allowed a higher power to define his concept of "Good", and he was rewarded with Immortality.
(the parallel to religion is obvious).
in the end, the only one left is Luke, who was taught "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions".
this is a FAR CRY from the prequel jedis "..we will do EXACTLY as the council has instructed".
the message of SW is not "good" vs "evil" , but rather, dynamic morality vs static morality:
if we allow Morality to change according to politics, then eventually good becomes evil.
(its a cautionary tale, re: separation of church and state)
the Jedi Order, being created to serve the senate, was the very mechanism by which the sith took over the galaxy.
(the sith need only control the senate, to control the jedi -- to control both sides of the force)
Balance was restored when the Jedi were no longer sworn to the will of the Senate, over the will of the Force:
when the 'very mechanism' which allowed this to happen, was dismantled.
Balance was restored when (a) the jedi order was destroyed in ep3, when (b) the senate was abolished in ep4,
and when (c ) the sith were finally destroyed in ep6.
((when Luke is free, to follow the will of the force)).
--> anakin was spawned BY the Force .. to destroy the Jedi Order and kill off all its younglings.
(THIS was the ONLY way, for The Force, to restore its own balance -- the only way to sever the relationship between church and state).
anakin was spawned BY the force, to "...end the destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy".
(to wipe out the JEdi OrDer, abolish the senate .. AND destroy the sith)
"
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Cobalt60
Active Member
in its natural state, the force is "created by" all living things.
( Life creates it -- not vice versa)
but -- the sith were using it to "create life". (trying to anyways),
they were using it IN REVERSE.
this is why the sith needed to be destroyed. along with the Jedi Order*
*see previous post. they BOTH needed to be destroyed in order to bring balance.
NAZGÛL
Sr Member
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
Why didn't the Death Star just suck all the X-wings and Y-wings in with the tractor beam?
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
Guess it must be pretty hard to reactivate, yeah.
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