Suggestion Junkyard: Buyers/Sellers Feedback?

jedimarkj

Well-Known Member
I really like this idea very much. The Feedback forum on Rebelscum works well.
I understand the fear of sellers having a history of their items public but what about just having a very generic feedback system that was suggested earlier?
ie. Seller A was great to deal with and shipped out item in good time; Member X didn't back out of deal and paid fast... etc.
Why not have that sort of system?
And you can have in the rules/COC a clause that states not to mention the item in a prospective feedback thread?

I think if you've been around the RPF for awhile, you would know who the reputable and good members are versus those who aren't... And therefore, they wouldn't really need to have a feedback thread.
I have dealt with a number of members throughout the years without any problems but I would still love to have my own feedback thread. While I have been mainly a buyer here, I would like to be able to sell for which I don't have any feedback except for the Rebelscum forum.
As a prospective seller, I would also like to know who I'm selling to and a feedback thread would definitely help. This is what I always ask for on the Rebelscum forums before I agree to a deal/sale...

Hopefully something can be instituted that is agreeable to all :)
 

jedimarkj

Well-Known Member
Hey Art, could you explain the system over at TDH?
I am actually not a member over there and not a huge Boba Fett fan (I know :$) so can't access your link...

thanks
 

Rylo

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The fact of the matter is, bad sellers do not last on the RPF and always get run off.

I'm not sure how you could have a system that does not keep a running inventory of the sellers merchandise. Even if you could, you'd still have the problem of the buyers referencing the item in the feedback. This would of course be something else the mods would have to police.

No propmaker wants exhibit A,B, etc. hanging out there on the net forever. I'm not talking about the guy who puts up a couple items a year. Some people here offer a great deal of merchandise that should come and go quietly.

Buyers can do a little homework and find out who the good guys are. There's no substitute for being an educated consumer. I don't believe it's the responsibility of the RPF to provide any sort of safety net so a buyer has some false sense of security when purchasing on-line. Let's face it, even a good seller can snap; there are no guarantees, anyway. A feedback system is just a warm fuzzy.

I can see such a system being really abused, anyway. Staff woud have to draw up a set of rules spelling out what constitutes a transaction, etc. You'd have situations where a seller may refuse to work with certain buyers for any number of reasons. What then? No transaction, no feedback or would the "would-be" buyer start complaining over a transaction that never was. It would just be a cluster ****. I can't tell you how many people contact me for merchandise, almost demanding I sell to them because they were the first to contact me; they have dibs or similar logic. I mean, what if I don't want to sell over seas or ship to a given state, etc.??

This can be a mine field of trouble. If the RPF sets up a system for this they'd need a full time staff to police it. i.e., How many bad feedbacks do we tolerate before someone is suspended, do the good guys get stuck posts? Who's going to handle disputes, etc? Lots of checks and balances come with this sort of thing.

I suggest the sellers communicate well w/ the buyers and everyone act like adults. It's worked well for over a decade here. We have a search feature where any member can be looked up. Isn't that enough?
 
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Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Hey Art, could you explain the system over at TDH?
I am actually not a member over there and not a huge Boba Fett fan (I know :$) so can't access your link...

thanks
Sure. It is a super simple system, similar to ebay's feedback (we now also have a similar system installed at the Hunter's Lair and it is working really well).

The system isn't quite as precise as ebay because a for sale thread is just a thread, not an actual transaction. eBay allows you to rate someone you have had a transaction with while the iTrader system is a bit more open.

Those who have transacted can leave one another feedback of either positive, neutral or negative. They can also leave a brief comment.

Because of the open nature of the system, it is possible to abuse it, which is why we are just testing it at this point.

I know this is something that might strike fear in the hearts of some sellers but I think that most of the good sellers will see it as a benefit.

We haven't decided on whether to bring it to the RPF or not and are currently weighing the pros and cons of having a system like that on this site.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
All good points and all things we would consider very carefully before implementing such an add-on.

The fact of the matter is, bad sellers do not last on the RPF and always get run off.

I'm not sure how you could have a system that does not keep a running inventory of the sellers merchandise. Even if you could, you'd still have the problem of the buyers referencing the item in the feedback. This would of course be something else the mods would have to police.

No propmaker wants exhibit A,B, etc. hanging out there on the net forever. I'm not talking about the guy who puts up a couple items a year. Some people here offer a great deal of merchandise that should come and go quietly.

Buyers can do a little homework and find out who the good guys are. There's no substitute for being an educated consumer. I don't believe it's the responsibility of the RPF to provide any sort of safety net so a buyer has some false sense of security when purchasing on-line. Let's face it, even a good seller can snap; there are no guarantees, anyway. A feedback system is just a warm fuzzy.

I can see such a system being really abused, anyway. Staff woud have to draw up a set of rules spelling out what constitutes a transaction, etc. You'd have situations where a seller may refuse to work with certain buyers for any number of reasons. What then? No transaction, no feedback or would the "would-be" buyer start complaining over a transaction that never was. It would just be a cluster ****. I can't tell you how many people contact me for merchandise, almost demanding I sell to them because they were the first to contact me; they have dibs or similar logic. I mean, what if I don't want to sell over seas or ship to a given state, etc.??

This can be a mine field of trouble. If the RPF sets up a system for this they'd need a full time staff to police it. i.e., How many bad feedbacks do we tolerate before someone is suspended, do the good guys get stuck posts? Who's going to handle disputes, etc? Lots of checks and balances come with this sort of thing.

I suggest the sellers communicate well w/ the buyers and everyone act like adults. It's worked well for over a decade here. We have a search feature where any member can be looked up. Isn't that enough?
 

Pitbull

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The feedback review system on the sideshow freak board is pretty cool maybe something like that?
 

trooper

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
feedback sticky page

why dont we have a feedback page??
I think it would be a good idea for when members have a good financial interaction with one another that we/they can put something down for others to look at for references, just like evilbay. if some one is doing good biz it, can be seen, and so can be said the reverse.

it can be nerve racking trusting some one who youve never seen or done biz with before and have no reference to judge by.


any thoughts?
 

WarPig

Sr Member
Re: feedback sticky page

This has been brought up time and time again in the "Suggestions" forum. It's just too big a can of worms. Unfortunately, our merry little group of bandits need to stay under the radar for a number of reasons.

A feedback page would require constant moderation; our mods have enough to do to keep us in line with *regular* stuff.

We *do* have a feedback system of sorts: check some of the prop runs - people often post their pleasure (or concerns).

Also - the bad guys don't last here very long :)
 

trooper

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Re: feedback sticky page

i can some of the concern for staying under radar, you certainly dont want to come out with it and say what was bought, but i see no reason why there cant be a very simple check in page. great transaction or bad transaction. we do have somehting along the lines of fedback, but presently only premium members can give it and only the recieving individual can reed it.
 

jkno

Master Member
I would totally go for a trade feedback system. :thumbsup I already have a trade feedback on Rebelscum fortums and a couple other forums. I keep it all here: Sergiu/Jkno Feedback Thread I started trading since 2001 and considering my location (Romania, Eastern Europe), this feedback helped me more than once gain the trust of sellers or buyers all over the world.
 

Rylo

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
It seems those who dig this thread back up neglect to really read it.

That said. I'll simply repost:

The fact of the matter is, bad sellers do not last on the RPF and always get run off.

I'm not sure how you could have a system that does not keep a running inventory of the sellers merchandise. Even if you could, you'd still have the problem of the buyers referencing the item in the feedback. This would of course be something else the mods would have to police.

No propmaker wants exhibit A,B, etc. hanging out there on the net forever. I'm not talking about the guy who puts up a couple items a year. Some people here offer a great deal of merchandise that should come and go quietly.

Buyers can do a little homework and find out who the good guys are. There's no substitute for being an educated consumer. I don't believe it's the responsibility of the RPF to provide any sort of safety net so a buyer has some false sense of security when purchasing on-line. Let's face it, even a good seller can snap; there are no guarantees, anyway. A feedback system is just a warm fuzzy.

I can see such a system being really abused, anyway. Staff woud have to draw up a set of rules spelling out what constitutes a transaction, etc. You'd have situations where a seller may refuse to work with certain buyers for any number of reasons. What then? No transaction, no feedback or would the "would-be" buyer start complaining over a transaction that never was. It would just be a cluster ****. I can't tell you how many people contact me for merchandise, almost demanding I sell to them because they were the first to contact me; they have dibs or similar logic. I mean, what if I don't want to sell over seas or ship to a given state, etc.??

This can be a mine field of trouble. If the RPF sets up a system for this they'd need a full time staff to police it. i.e., How many bad feedbacks do we tolerate before someone is suspended, do the good guys get stuck posts? Who's going to handle disputes, etc? Lots of checks and balances come with this sort of thing.

I suggest the sellers communicate well w/ the buyers and everyone act like adults. It's worked well for over a decade here. We have a search feature where any member can be looked up. Isn't that enough?
 

trooper

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
actualy i didnt post on this thread, never saw it. the thread I started.. got moved here .
 

Chevyh0tr0d

Well-Known Member
Although I am in agreement of "bad sellers" getting run off of the RPF. Another Idea to simply replace a feedback system, although would be some work is to do the following. Have a seller who has previously successfully sold a item here on the RPF. to simply post in his current FS thread, a link to any other successful sales he may of had. Then have people post on these threads when they buy something and receive it fast slow etc. So people can view his "Reputation" for being a great seller or a bad one.

A good example of this is lets say Brad(Jedifyfye) sold a run of BTF 2 Newspaper articles, and he sent most of them out with out a problem. People who were happy and or sad with how good he was could post on this. Then a few months down the road when he goes to sell another item he could link this and say something like "I am a good seller, here is a link to my old thread with my run of XYZ Item where everyone but "so and so" was happy with me. This way people with a little bit of typing and mouse clickling could see if someone was good. A way to show off "bad sellers" is to have a mod or any unhappy customers post up links to old sales thread of unhappy people when a "bad or un happy customer base" when the seller would try and sell another item. The only thing this would affect is 1st time sellers, who would have no reputation and would have to take a chance. I know this is kinda usless as "bad sellers" do get run off the RPF very quickly, but might help show people's repuation with out having a feedback system
 

DaddyfromNaboo

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Although I am in agreement of "bad sellers" getting run off of the RPF. Another Idea to simply replace a feedback system, although would be some work is to do the following. Have a seller who has previously successfully sold a item here on the RPF. to simply post in his current FS thread, a link to any other successful sales he may of had. Then have people post on these threads when they buy something and receive it fast slow etc. So people can view his "Reputation" for being a great seller or a bad one.

...
The problem with this is that people WILL post if a sale goes wrong or the turnaround time is too long, but only rarely post "Item received, great service, thanks a bunch!".

This is a huge problem for us with reported bad deals. An item not received is reported, but we are rarely immediately and automatically informed when an issue is resolved. :rolleyes

So, if a seller´s been around for quite some time, and there are no complaints in his sales threads, then he´s very likely trustworthy.

But as Art already wrote, there´s something in the works regarding this issue, if the test at TDH goes well it might be brought over to the RPF.

Michael
RPF staff
 

Rylo

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I have one simple question:

How would you (The RPF) make sure that the person who leaves a given seller feedback has actually done business with said seller? If you're going to attempt to protect the buyer you have to look out for the seller, too.

I have no problem at all with someone leaving me feedback provided they are indeed a client of mine and there is no running inventory of the item. (See my explanation above regarding exhibit A,B and C.)

But, I do have a problem when some child or troll who I refused to sell to (or anyone else for that matter) who I simply chose not to do business with decides he's dick-hurt and wants to slander me. Say someone contacts me about a prop and we do not come to terms. They then leave a post, "Ry sucks, don't do business with him." This places me in the uncomfortable position of having to defend myself against some loon who hit my radar wrong and never gave me a dime.

Again, I think a rating system is silly. There is no substitute for being an educated consumer. Speaking for myself, again. I have completed over 100 runs and shipped over 3500 props on the RPF in the last 12 years. What sort of rating do I get? I mean, you are going to be very hard pressed to find many who can top that. I'm have worked very hard and I'm rather proud to have pleased that many people. A few people tagging behind my name that they got their crap is hardly going to reflect the caliber of seller that I am. If anything it will marginalize me because; as you said, most people do not chime in once product is in hand.

It's a slippery slope trying to protect people from themselves on the RPF. Once you put that sort of thing in motion, you'll then have the posts that go, "Why did the RPF rate 'so and so' so high and they ripped me off?

The answer is always going to be the same. People can always flake regardless of reputation. The best you can do is understand there are no absolutes in life and ask around about 'whomever' you plan to do business with. Don't expect this forum to bless the deal or ornate the seller for you. Isn't that exactly what most are expecting a rating system to do?

The worst thing that's going to happen to a seller who rips someone off already happens. We boot them. What exactly do you think would change with a rating system? Read my post twice if you still don't get it...

You're looking for an absolute sense of security that no system can provide. The simple act of 'any' member posting in the JY implies they haven't screwed anyone, yet.

-Rylo
 
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Miker

Well-Known Member
The Sith lords boards have a topic area for vendor feedback...it is a smaller community granted, but basically people tend to post positive and negative reviews of vendors. I have seen more positive than negative. If something negative is posted, a series of follow up posts usually ensues, all in the open, so if, for example, you get some one- time dude who is unhappy and posts because of something silly or trivial, it's usually backed up or outweighed by others who post positive feedback if that tends to be the case. They don't have a "rating" per se...just if you are looking to buy something specific you can read what others have said about dealings with the vendor in a specific location ( rather than searching. )

Surely most of us have bought from eBay or amazon, and both have feedback AND rating systems. I guess I just wonder what the big deal is? If you're a good vendor with a solid history, you have nothing to worry about...the most someone does is post nice things about you. I can see technical and philosophical issues with a full computerized rating system, but an area dedicated specifically to discussion of vendor feedback seems to work I other forms, for whatever that's worth.
 

Canobi

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I'm currently working on a project that is my first foray into prop making. This will make me a first time seller on this forum. I totaly understand the insecurities of dealing with a newbie like myself so I made it as clear as I could that this will be my first, and if you choose not to buy from me or sell to me, I'll understand. however, I would also rather stay under the radar (it turns out my chosen subject carries a tanatious legal team) and having a history of all your work in some kind of rating system would be too much like a charge sheet to me.

I've always just been into letting people know how pleased with thier service/item I am by leaving a positive comment.
 

Rylo

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
No full time propmaker can afford to have a running history of their work left on the net forever for obvious reasons. That said, most professional buyers don't like people knowing their business either.

This thread is now on repeat. Every possible perspective on this issue has been expressed.

What will be will be.

-Rylo
 
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Pannaus Props

Sr Member
How about "transaction feedbacks?"

Hey guys, I was thinking about something.
I searched for it but couldn't find anything at all.

Have you admins thought about a system to make people give feedbacks to sellers and viceversa?

It could be an easy and quick way for old and new members to see if the seller has a history of good and smooth transaction or, in case of problems and issues, if he/she was able to find a way to solve them. At the same time, sellers could know in advance if the member buying is trust worthy.

What do you guys think?
I apologize if this has already brought to attention, but I couldn't find anything about feedbacks.

Thanks!
 
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