Julien’s Upcoming Hero Phaser & Communicator Auction

[AdmiralBaxter]

The two Hero P1s shown above, Post photo - 1 and Post photo - 3, do not have the same rear ends...
You see this clearly in the "Assignment Earth" caps.

I personally see what you mean, yet the shape of the top of the two P1's is different over the length of the P1 so one will look smaller. Also where the side rails on the P1's are mounted (as there is minute differences) and the catch space in the back of the P1 will also affect how they look.

Which is to be expected.

 

[feek61]

WTF??? This is exhausting!!!! The P1 on the TMOST in the photo above is not the same P1 on the Conscience / Lenore / Riley in the clips above; no one has said it is. They both have blue watch crowns, the Assignment: Earth P1 is the Nona and the Conscience / Lenore / Riley. We know that because the scratches on the thumbwheel are completely different as I posted many pages back. I don't even know what point you are making since this has already been established; unless I misunderstand what you are saying. On a rounded edge it is pretty tricky to define where the top surface is. I have seen numerous clips of the TMOST P1 that make it look like it is low in the back because the light is reflecting off of a round surface but that does not reflect where the top surface is. That is just not a reliable method of identifying the P1's Regardless, I just can't keep going around and around with this.

 

[TOS Phaser]

95% of what they put into the phasers was never utilized. The fact that they are over-engineered makes me love them that much more. It represented a mindset that led to excellence.

An observation of this thread for everyone concerned.

I completely agree with Dahn's statements above. The Desilu Effects Department and Matt Jefferies - engineered the Practical Phaser Unit #2s and Phaser Unit #1s.

Starting with the two working drawings, to scale, provided by Matt to the Effects Department:

Post photo - 1.
This drawing was printed in Solow's book to full scale.

Post photo - 2.
Granted the final four Practical Phaser Unit # 2s and the final Phaser Unit #1s do not match exactly Matt's working drawings - the final Hero P2s are very close. (A study was done about this on the TPZ.)

When I compare the GJ P2 shells photos to the Finney P2 shells photos I do not see dramatic differences between them. (Granted - some of the parts are not exactly the same.) The fiberglass shells were made the same way that John Long made his Hero P1 Kit shells - a wooden "buck" was carved and shaped to make the fiberglass molds.

Post photo - 3.
This is (unless I made a mistake and copied the wrong file) the Greg Jein P2.

Post photo - 4.
This is the current auction Finney P2 left side shell. We see the same thing in the Greg Jein P1 internal photos compared to the TMOST P1 internal photos of the current auction piece.

Until we have the other two Hero P2s and P1s photographed like the current auction photos and the Greg Jein - what I am about to say cannot be proved.

I think these props were highly "engineered" - just as the John Long Hero P1 Kits were made. Granted - I think different employees took the engineered parts: shells, nozzles, P1 hoods, etc., and assembled them based on their skill set and experience. Just because some of the internal parts were assembled by different employees, and therefore look different, cannot be used to draw the conclusion that each shell set was very different and therefore the Hero P1s could not be swapped. I do not see these variations in the GJ and Finney: P2 and P1 shells. In fact I have never see any difference between the shells Robn1 produces nor the late Sporak...

 

[Tosfan1]

Yes, the watch crowns have a stem that would require either grinding it off or drilling a small hole. Drilling the hole makes way more sense since because it is so much easier and it would secure the watch crown way more than just surface gluing it. This would make way more sense for production purposes to limit as much as possible any repairs to the hero props. I did not mention this before only because we don't know for sure.

Are there any top views of the newly surfaced TMOST/Finney ph2? Like the top view in The Making of Star Trek book?

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

Are there any top views of the newly surfaced TMOST/Finney ph2? Like the top view in The Making of Star Trek book?

 

[TOS Phaser]

Goodnight all.
I thank all for your valuable help in my life long search for the truth about the Hero Phaser props...

 

[Gregatron]

"Fannish and arrogant" ?? Do you not realize that what they did did not replace the original FX? We get a choice, and your choice seems to be a Herbert concerning this...

While I respect having both options on Blu-Ray, the reality is that these Lucas-ized versions are the ones shown in syndication and streaming, now. And they're just not the authentic versions of the episodes.

Sigh.

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

Until we have the other two Hero P2s and P1s photographed like the current auction photos and the Greg Jein - what I am about to say cannot be proved.

I think these props were highly "engineered" - just as the John Long Hero P1 Kits were made. Granted - I think different employees took the engineered parts: shells, nozzles, P1 hoods, etc., and assembled them based on their skill set and experience. Just because some of the internal parts were assembled by different employees, and therefore look different, cannot be used to draw the conclusion that each shell set was very different and therefore the Hero P1s could not be swapped. I do not see these variations in the GJ and Finney: P2 and P1 shells. In fact I have never see any difference between the shells Robn1 produces nor the late Sporak...

We know the shell sets won't vary much, yet when they are assembled variables come into play based on where cuts were/weren't made which would affect the fit and finish.

The simple reality is some shells will fit differently. We can only logically conclude that they were not intended to be interchanged, that doesn't mean or imply that they can't. Yet what we see in the screen caps show us all that certain P1's fit better into different P2's.

I have various phasers from the same source and each P1 fits slightly different when interchanged with other P2's some I can barely tell on others it's big difference.

 

[Tosfan1]

View attachment 1843207

Thank you! Great view. Are there any flat overhead views similar to the view in TMOST book?

 

[Chrisisall]

While I respect having both options on Blu-Ray, the reality is that these Lucas-ized versions are the ones shown in syndication and streaming, now. And they're just not the authentic versions of the episodes.

Sigh.

So, you'd rather have younger fans pass on TOS because of the re-done peripheral FX rather than get into the actual dramatic content of the episodes regardless....

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

Thank you! Great view. Are there any flat overhead views similar to the view in TMOST book?

LINK

 

[Gregatron]

So, you'd rather have younger fans pass on TOS because of the re-done peripheral FX rather than get into the actual dramatic content of the episodes regardless....

I would prefer younger fans get off their high horses and learn to respect older media and the limitations it was made under, rather than having it be altered to appeal to “modern audiences”.

When I studied CITIZEN KANE in film class, I wasn’t put off by the black-and-white photography or the 1940’s technology and techniques. Instead, I marveled at Gregg Toland’s deep-focus photography and camera moves, Welles’ direction, and the story and characters.

All art is a product of its time. I think kids should learn to develop an attention span, an appreciation for history, and respect for the artists who labored under difficult conditions to produce what was, at the time, state of the art.

Film preservation and history are things I take seriously. Ignoring the truth of a work of art by altering it to try and lure kids away from their tablets is anathema.

 

[QuasiOdo]

Here's a perfect example of proper lighting tells all:

Four phasers 3 different handle colors and even the two that are the same (Top Left, Bottom Right) are not identical in person or when photographed even though they are from the same batch of paint.

These are all variants of dark grey metallic and all are closer to the colors seen on screen than the widely accepted "dark bronze metallic" which looks more "milk chocolate" in color as can been seen with the color of the additional power pack.

IF the four phasers were in a group photo from say 10-15 feet away from the camera the handle colors would look nearly identical even though we can see they are obviously different.
View attachment 1842948

It had been said that Krylon DBM was an "exact match" to the Jein handle. I personally never thought so. Regarding the variations: The metallic particles in the paint pick up micro-specular reflections of whatever the light sources are. The more neutral the substrate, the more the variation. The brown paint is far from neutral. So it always looks...brown.

 

[QuasiOdo]

I would prefer younger fans get off their high horses and learn to respect older media and the limitations it was made under, rather than having it be altered to appeal to “modern audiences”.

When I studied CITIZEN KANE in film class, I wasn’t put off by the black-and-white photography or the 1940’s technology and techniques. Instead, I marveled at Gregg Toland’s deep-focus photography and camera moves, Welles’ direction, and the story and characters.

All art is a product of its time. I think kids should learn to develop an attention span, an appreciation for history, and respect for the artists who labored under difficult conditions to produce what was, at the time, state of the art.

Film preservation and history are things I take seriously. Ignoring the truth of a work of art by altering it to try and lure kids away from their tablets is anathema.

Agree!

 

[QuasiOdo]

I’m a graphic designer so I know exactly what you’re talking about. Lighting, lighting, lighting. IMO, unless you can get at least two pieces together you can’t know anything for sure.

One thing that bugs me about the auction photos is that I sense a non-neutrality of the light source. They all look slightly florescent or LED yellow-green. You can see it in the metal parts. I wish they would've corrected them better in post..

 

[Leinads]

The non-neutral light source is definitely an issue, and it does give the metal parts that yellow-green tint. I love these gorgeous images, but better post-processing to fix the white balance would have helped, and using more neutral daylight-balanced LED lighting would have provided more accurate color (representation.)

In just looking through these again, it appears the white background consistently drowns out particular colors. The phaser is very readable in some of the images and is almost blinding in others. A black background would enhance the contrast, making it stand out more and allowing the details and textures to pop. Plus, the darker background wouldn’t reflect light back onto the phaser.

 

[feek61]

One thing that bugs me about the auction photos is that I sense a non-neutrality of the light source. They all look slightly florescent or LED yellow-green. You can see it in the metal parts. I wish they would've corrected them better in post..

Well, infinitely preferable to grainy film clips and low-res b&w photos!!!!!! Please give me all of the high-res photos you can, no matter the light source!!!

 

[TOS Phaser]

WTF??? This is exhausting!!!!

Well. OK!!! I thought I was done with this thread last night. However in the light of the stars I am seeing from the beating about my head my frined feek61 just gave me - several things have come into clear focus.

By your own admission - (your insistence that watch crowns and jewels are the only way to trace the Hero P1s with certainty in each episode) at best you are only able to give a prospective bidder a 50:50 certification that the auction Hero P1 is the TMOST P1. . .

Since I have exhausted you - I will only ask you one more question.

Can the auction Hero P1 shown be what you call the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" Hero P1?

 

[TOS Phaser]

From the beginning of this thread only two photos have bothered me. And they both concern the Hero P1 in the current auction.

I will go on the record and state - I think the Hero P2 in the current auction is the "Finney" P2 filmed in closeup in the episode "Court-Martial". It has as Gregatron reported - all of the observables. Plus many insiders on the TPZ reported the "Finney" P2 had been acquired by a Japanese collector. [ I personally know Japanese collectors. I can state from personal experience - if they purchase something for their collection and want to allow family and friends to see the item - it is stored in a hermetically sealed display case that is pumped full of a preserving Nobel gas! And thus knowing this we should not be surprised the auction P2 insides look like they just came off the set...]

I will further go on the record and state that I do not believe the Hero P1 in the current auction is the TMOST P1. It is I believe the other P1 that apparently Wah Ming Chang transformed into another Hero P1 for closeups. What feek61 has labeled the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" P1.

Here are the two photos ("Post photo -1" and "Post photo - 3") that cause me to believe these things:

Post photo - 1. The left side view of the current auction Hero P2 and P1.

When I compare the left side view of the current auction Hero P2 and P1 (Post photo - 1) to the famous "Court-Martial" closeup of the "Finney" P2 and TMOST P1:

Post photo - 2. Finney P2 and TMOST P1 closeup from the episode "Court-Martial".

The Hero P1 shown in "Photo post - 1" does not sit in the Finney saddle and appears to be slightly longer than the TMOST P1. Plus the paint removed on the thumbwheels do not match. And as I have been asking/writing for days - the shape of the rear ends IMO do not match.

The following photo is the second photo that has bothered me:

Post photo - 3. The comparison of the auction P1 "battery cover" to the TMOST P1 battery cover.

I will not argue here in my last post (I promise) on this thread that there are several things about the auction P1 battery cover that do not seem to match the TMOST battery cover.

Instead I will ask you all (assuming the Hero P1 in the auction is not a forgery) why was the tongue - that apparently performed the same function as the "pins" on the Greg Jein P1 battery cover cut down? You can clearly see in my "Post photo - 3" - the TMOST "tongue" (used instead of pins) no longer goes past the edge.

In my "Post photo - 3" it is clear the "tongue" (used instead of the pins) to hold the battery cover in place has been altered. Why? Could it be this cover for the TMOST Hero P1 was altered to fit the 4th Hero P1 that WMC apparently reworked to produce another Hero P1 for closeups?

Or is the auction Hero P1 battery cover (which was probably made by the same Desilu Effects Department employee who assembled/made the TMOST P1) for the 4th / Lost Hero P1? And that is why the battery cover has some differences when compared to the TMOST P1 ?

So for the reasons and photo evidence above I will go on record and state the Hero P1 in the current auction is the "Lost/4th" Hero P1 (aka. the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" P1) that WMC modified to be a third Hero P1 for closeup use.

 

[drusselmeyer]

I agree - the "Finney" P2 was filmed more than any other P2 - including IMO in "Shore Leave". Agreed the TMOST never got Velcro on the left side. However contrary to what many believe there was a fourth Hero P1. It is listed in the Desilu Inventory. And there is a shot of both Kirk and Spock with Hero P2s on their gold belts in the "The Man Trap".

The following cap from episode 6, "The Man Trap" at approximately 32.X min reflects two Hero P2s hanging on two gold pistol belts:
View attachment 1841027
This is the first combat scene on the planet - where Captain Kirk and Spock are confronting Dr. Crater.

And here is another cap a second later:
View attachment 1841028

And Spock pulls his hero off of his belt:
View attachment 1841029

I think, after careful observation of the first season episodes, where the Hero P2s are filmed - Hero P2s were worn on the gold belts until the Greg Jein fell off and was shattered on the set floor.

Those are the same frame. They are not one second apart.