Julien’s Upcoming Hero Phaser & Communicator Auction

[Gregatron]

It had been said that Krylon DBM was an "exact match" to the Jein handle. I personally never thought so. Regarding the variations: The metallic particles in the paint pick up micro-specular reflections of whatever the light sources are. The more neutral the substrate, the more the variation. The brown paint is far from neutral. So it always looks...brown.

This coming from “Expert” Mr. Long, who also gave us the infamous, fat-butt comm.

Personally, I’ve always held to the idea that the handles were a gunmetal-ish color, but tend to photograph with a bronze-y look under certain lighting, such as the studio lighting used in TOS.

 

[Gregatron]

From the beginning of this thread only two photos have bothered me. And they both concern the Hero P1 in the current auction.

I will go on the record and state - I think the Hero P2 in the current auction is the "Finney" P2 filmed in closeup in the episode "Court-Martial". It has as Gregatron reported - all of the observables. Plus many insiders on the TPZ reported the "Finney" P2 had been acquired by a Japanese collector. [ I personally know Japanese collectors. I can state from personal experience - if they purchase something for their collection and want to allow family and friends to see the item - it is stored in a hermetically sealed display case that is pumped full of a preserving Nobel gas! And thus knowing this we should not be surprised the auction P2 insides look like they just came off the set...]

I will further go on the record and state that I do not believe the Hero P1 in the current auction is the TMOST P1. It is I believe the other P1 that apparently Wah Ming Chang transformed into another Hero P1 for closeups. What feek61 has labeled the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" P1.

Here are the two photos ("Post photo -1" and "Post photo - 3") that cause me to believe these things:
View attachment 1843277
Post photo - 1. The left side view of the current auction Hero P2 and P1.

When I compare the left side view of the current auction Hero P2 and P1 (Post photo - 1) to the famous "Court-Martial" closeup of the "Finney" P2 and TMOST P1:
View attachment 1843288
Post photo - 2. Finney P2 and TMOST P1 closeup from the episode "Court-Martial".

The Hero P1 shown in "Photo post - 1" does not sit in the Finney saddle and appears to be slightly longer than the TMOST P1. Plus the paint removed on the thumbwheels do not match. And as I have been asking/writing for days - the shape of the rear ends IMO do not match.

The following photo is the second photo that has bothered me:
View attachment 1843291
Post photo - 3. The comparison of the auction P1 "battery cover" to the TMOST P1 battery cover.

I will not argue here in my last post (I promise) on this thread that there are several things about the auction P1 battery cover that do not seem to match the TMOST battery cover.

Instead I will ask you all (assuming the Hero P1 in the auction is not a forgery) why was the tongue - that apparently performed the same function as the "pins" on the Greg Jein P1 battery cover cut down? You can clearly see in my "Post photo - 3" - the TMOST "tongue" (used instead of pins) no longer goes past the edge.

In my "Post photo - 3" it is clear the "tongue" (used instead of the pins) to hold the battery cover in place has been altered. Why? Could it be this cover for the TMOST Hero P1 was altered to fit the 4th Hero P1 that WMC apparently reworked to produce another Hero P1 for closeups?

Or is the auction Hero P1 battery cover (which was probably made by the same Desilu Effects Department employee who assembled/made the TMOST P1) for the 4th / Lost Hero P1? And that is why the battery cover has some differences when compared to the TMOST P1 ?

So for the reasons and photo evidence above I will go on record and state the Hero P1 in the current auction is the "Lost/4th" Hero P1 (aka. the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" P1) that WMC modified to be a third Hero P1 for closeup use.

I just can’t.

The TMOST photos are badly cropped. That all.

 

[Tosfan1]

Well, infinitely preferable to grainy film clips and low-res b&w photos!!!!!! Please give me all of the high-res photos you can, no matter the light source!!!

Feek-

Have you come upon any flat overhead shots of this Finney ph2 - similar to the flat overhead shot in TMOST book?

That would be an interesting view

 

[feek61]

Well. OK!!! I thought I was done with this thread last night. However in the light of the stars I am seeing from the beating about my head my frined feek61 just gave me - several things have come into clear focus.

By your own admission - (your insistence that watch crowns and jewels are the only way to trace the Hero P1s with certainty in each episode) at best you are only able to give a prospective bidder a 50:50 certification that the auction Hero P1 is the TMOST P1. . .

Since I have exhausted you - I will only ask you one more question.

Can the auction Hero P1 shown be what you call the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" Hero P1?

LOL, dude, I obviously offended you and I am sorry about that. I was only trying to help your research by pointing out your flawed method(s) so you could get more accurate data to form better opinions and theories, but I have no desire to annoy you. I am busy with my own research and will no longer participate in discussions with you because although I respect your enthusiasm and dedication, I don't trust your methods or results.

Take care!

 

[drusselmeyer]

From the beginning of this thread only two photos have bothered me. And they both concern the Hero P1 in the current auction.

I will go on the record and state - I think the Hero P2 in the current auction is the "Finney" P2 filmed in closeup in the episode "Court-Martial". It has as Gregatron reported - all of the observables. Plus many insiders on the TPZ reported the "Finney" P2 had been acquired by a Japanese collector. [ I personally know Japanese collectors. I can state from personal experience - if they purchase something for their collection and want to allow family and friends to see the item - it is stored in a hermetically sealed display case that is pumped full of a preserving Nobel gas! And thus knowing this we should not be surprised the auction P2 insides look like they just came off the set...]

I will further go on the record and state that I do not believe the Hero P1 in the current auction is the TMOST P1. It is I believe the other P1 that apparently Wah Ming Chang transformed into another Hero P1 for closeups. What feek61 has labeled the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" P1.

Here are the two photos ("Post photo -1" and "Post photo - 3") that cause me to believe these things:
View attachment 1843277
Post photo - 1. The left side view of the current auction Hero P2 and P1.

When I compare the left side view of the current auction Hero P2 and P1 (Post photo - 1) to the famous "Court-Martial" closeup of the "Finney" P2 and TMOST P1:
View attachment 1843288
Post photo - 2. Finney P2 and TMOST P1 closeup from the episode "Court-Martial".

The Hero P1 shown in "Photo post - 1" does not sit in the Finney saddle and appears to be slightly longer than the TMOST P1. Plus the paint removed on the thumbwheels do not match. And as I have been asking/writing for days - the shape of the rear ends IMO do not match.

The following photo is the second photo that has bothered me:
View attachment 1843291
Post photo - 3. The comparison of the auction P1 "battery cover" to the TMOST P1 battery cover.

I will not argue here in my last post (I promise) on this thread that there are several things about the auction P1 battery cover that do not seem to match the TMOST battery cover.

Instead I will ask you all (assuming the Hero P1 in the auction is not a forgery) why was the tongue - that apparently performed the same function as the "pins" on the Greg Jein P1 battery cover cut down? You can clearly see in my "Post photo - 3" - the TMOST "tongue" (used instead of pins) no longer goes past the edge.

In my "Post photo - 3" it is clear the "tongue" (used instead of the pins) to hold the battery cover in place has been altered. Why? Could it be this cover for the TMOST Hero P1 was altered to fit the 4th Hero P1 that WMC apparently reworked to produce another Hero P1 for closeups?

Or is the auction Hero P1 battery cover (which was probably made by the same Desilu Effects Department employee who assembled/made the TMOST P1) for the 4th / Lost Hero P1? And that is why the battery cover has some differences when compared to the TMOST P1 ?

So for the reasons and photo evidence above I will go on record and state the Hero P1 in the current auction is the "Lost/4th" Hero P1 (aka. the "Riley/Lenore/Conscience" P1) that WMC modified to be a third Hero P1 for closeup use.

Personally, I don't see why this would bother anyone. The glue and depression patterns are identical.

Different lighting effects the resulting image, but clearly, several indicators make it look to be the same part.

 

[feek61]

Feek-

Have you found any flat overhead shots of this Finney ph2 - similar to the flat overhead shot in TMOST book?

That would be an interesting view

Yes, but I am not at liberty to share.

 

[robn1]

There is no doubt that this new phaser is the Finney/TMOST. The white scratches on the P1 top have been painted over at some point but are still visible, along with a few other blemishes. They all match up.

The glue blob on the side rail also matches up. The paint scrapes on the thumb wheel are a bit different, but it could have been repainted and rescratched any number of times.

The battery cover never had a tongue, which wouldn't work with the emitter mech in the way. It was just poorly cropped, something like this.

Feek-

Have you come upon any flat overhead shots of this Finney ph2 - similar to the flat overhead shot in TMOST book?

That would be an interesting view

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[feek61]

Just to dispel disinformation posted in this thread, the TMOST / Finney up for auction most certainly did NOT come from a "Japanese Collector"

 

[Tosfan1]

There is no doubt that this new phaser is the Finney/TMOST. The white scratches on the P1 top have been painted over at some point but are still visible, along with a few other blemishes. They all match up.
View attachment 1843338

The glue blob on the side rail also matches up. The paint scrapes on the thumb wheel are a bit different, but it could have been repainted and rescratched any number of times.
View attachment 1843339

The battery cover never had a tongue, which wouldn't work with the emitter mech in the way. It was just poorly cropped, something like this.
View attachment 1843340


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Thank you!

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

This coming from “Expert” Mr. Long, who also gave us the infamous, fat-butt comm.

Personally, I’ve always held to the idea that the handles were a gunmetal-ish color, but tend to photograph with a bronze-y look under certain lighting, such as the studio lighting used in TOS.

They are a gun metal / dark grey metallic with a touch of gold or brass mixed in for a slight yellow tint

 

[Gregatron]

They are a gun metal / dark grey metallic with a touch of gold or brass mixed in for a slight yellow tint

“Slight” is the key word. A lot of replicas and toys have gone way overboard.

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

Just to dispel disinformation posted in this thread, the TMOST / Finney up for auction most certainly did NOT come from a "Japanese Collector"

So why does everyone keep saying it?

It really is enough to make folks lose faith in the people promoting it as the real deal....

IF folks can't provide accurate owner info they shouldn't speak on who owns it (just to keep folks honest is what I mean)

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

“Slight” is the key word. A lot of replicas and toys have gone way overboard.

I've only done my most recent one with a very slight touch of gold and it comes kind of close on accident as I was trying for a slightly different shade of dark grey metallic but got lucky

 

[feek61]

So why does everyone keep saying it?

It really is enough to make folks lose faith in the people promoting it as the real deal....

IF folks can't provide accurate owner info they shouldn't speak on who owns it (just to keep folks honest is what I mean)

Could not say, I have only read that in this thread. I am not on social media; is it posted someplace else?

 

[AdmiralBaxter]

Could not say, I have only read that in this thread. I am not on social media; is it posted someplace else?

That's what everyone is now claiming ...

 

[Leinads]

That's what everyone is now claiming ...

It was an old forum rumor, and I was the one who mentioned it here. A recent OpenAI search claims that collector is the ‘mystery’ owner of one of the heros. This result will come up with little substantiation behind it.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

View attachment 1843277


The Hero P1 shown in "Photo post - 1" does not sit in the Finney saddle and appears to be slightly longer than the TMOST P1.

Remember…the “foot” in the Phaser One rear release mechanism had “fallen off”…

…and the missing “foot” was not yet repaired when this photo was taken….

That’s why the back-end of the Phaser One is not laying flat in the saddle of the Phaser II.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

There is no doubt that this new phaser is the Finney/TMOST. The white scratches on the P1 top have been painted over at some point but are still visible, along with a few other blemishes. They all match up.
View attachment 1843338

The glue blob on the side rail also matches up. The paint scrapes on the thumb wheel are a bit different, but it could have been repainted and rescratched any number of times.
View attachment 1843339

The battery cover never had a tongue, which wouldn't work with the emitter mech in the way. It was just poorly cropped, something like this.
View attachment 1843340


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I agree with everything in Robn1’s post.

Spot-on analysis.

 

[feek61]

That's what everyone is now claiming ...

That is what sucks about people posting **** that is not real or substantiated, it gets repeated over and over and spreads like cancer. It can take years to repair the damage if it ever can get repaired.

 

[TOS Phaser]

An open letter of apology to the members of therpf who have participated in this thread.

First - I apologize for repeating a post that someone posted on this thread about a Japanese collector. I know better than to repeat gossip from people I do not know.

I was raised to be respectful, tell the truth, admit when I was wrong and learn from my mistakes. So when it came time to take responsibilty for my actions during my professional engineering career - I was able to amit my mistakes, correct them, learn from them and move on.

I also apologize for being stubborn and holding on to "cherished beliefs". I know better than to allow my mind to become closed to further learning.

I do sincerely appreciate all of the members who love Star Trek: TOS Phasers as much as I do.

And I greatly appreciate the efforts of those who were willing to share what they have learned / knew about these iconic props. It has been a very pleasant and rewarding experience here on therpf, unlike the other, earlier phaser forums where the "keepers of the secrets" would not share what they knew. And they would repeatly respond to my obervations and posts with "this has already been decided"...

With the sharing of the "Finney" P2 and "TMOST" P1 photos by Dahn - my 36 year search for exactly what the Finney Hero Phaser looked like is now complete.

I wish all of you the best that life has to offer. Take care and keep up the good work.