feek61
Sr Member
I agree 100% that the phaser is broken but only 25% that it is the GJ.
There is just not enough evidence in my opinion to say definitively that it is the GJ; could be any of the heros.
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Julien’s Upcoming Hero Phaser & Communicator Auction
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There is just not enough evidence in my opinion to say definitively that it is the GJ; could be any of the heros.
robn1
Master Member
Well I guess it's possible that another phaser, with screws in the same positions, could be broken at the same exact spot and same exact angle, but not very likely. This also falls into the realm of speculation without facts. The visible details match, and it's one of only two B&W Velcro heroes, and there's no evidence of a matching break on any other hero. The only facts that exist say Charlie is GJ, I'll accept that until something contrary turns up.I agree 100% that it is broken but only 25% that it is the GJ.
There is just not enough evidence in my opinion to say it is the GJ; could be any of the heros.
A funny / not funny thing that I just remembered, on the topic of the Jein Phaser II…
About 6 months ago, I dropped a set of Hero Phaser II shells I was working on and, sure enough, the tower broke at nearly the exact same spot as the Jein break.
About 6 months ago, I dropped a set of Hero Phaser II shells I was working on and, sure enough, the tower broke at nearly the exact same spot as the Jein break.
I think the most likely “breaker” of the Jein Phaser II is the person who happened to wield it when it was seen in what appears to be a newly broken state, in close-up, not long after he flopped to the floor, in a scene from “Charlie X”…
TOS Phaser
Active Member
I have never said it was the Finney / TMOST. The Hero P1 in the shot is IMO the twin of the TMOST that had Velcro on the left side.
This Hero B&W P1 is thicker than the Greg Jein and we never see the left side of it in either "The Man Trap" or "The Enemy Within".
feek61
Sr Member
I am not saying it is NOT the GJ, just that we can't be certain. I think it is strange that after being repaired that it would break in the same spot. Perhaps there is a weakness there on the shell that is prone to breaking in a certain pattern which would cause a similar break on any of the phasers. I believe the B&W's all had the same screw arrangement so that is not really any "tell." The front of the P1 appears to obscure part of the break so we are only seeing part of it. Again, I believe that it may be the GJ but that there is no definitive proof either way.
feek61
Sr Member
Well, you posted the below photo (post #955) which you have it listed as "Finney" which is pretty misleading if your are saying it is not the Finney! LOL Again, not sure how you can correlate any of the B&W's with the converted phasers since they were extensively modified. I will have to find the quote but Herb Solow said something to the effect that after spending a ton on money on the phasers, they barely had one that was suitable for filming. It is possible that of all the black and whites, we are only really seeing two phasers.
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robn1
Master Member
feek61
Sr Member
I stand corrected sir!
TOS Phaser
Active Member
You are fixated on your belief that the B&W Hero P1s were never swapped!
The Finney P2 was worn on gold belts on several occasions! That could only have been accomplished if there was a B&W Hero P1 with Velcro matted to the Finney P2 for that shot!
Also - you are the one who came up with classifying the Hero P2s with a specific Hero P1! That was never the case on the TPZ.
TOS Phaser
Active Member
The Hero P2 always had the Hero P1 (or the best guess which Hero P1) that was matted to the P2 for the shot.
EDIT - CAUTION: The following cap from the TPZ has errors in it. This cap was only meant to be an example of how the
members of the TPZ were careful to talk about the Phaser Unit # 2 (P2) and the associated Phaser Unit # 1 (P1) in the
caps they used.
EDIT - CAUTION: The following cap from the TPZ has errors in it. This cap was only meant to be an example of how the
members of the TPZ were careful to talk about the Phaser Unit # 2 (P2) and the associated Phaser Unit # 1 (P1) in the
caps they used.
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robn1
Master Member
I remember that post and it makes no sense. There is no way the Courtmartial and Cloud Minders P2's are the GJ.
TOS Phaser
Active Member
So I admit that I should have included which B&W Hero P1 was matted to which Hero P2.
The Greg Jein P2 has the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro
The Unknown P2 has the Greg Jein P1 with Velcro - - Spock is carrying the Finney P2 in this scene with the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro
The Finney P2 in the famous insert shot from "The Man Trap" had IMO the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro on the left side
The Riley/Lenore on Kirk's gold belt had the Greg Jein P1 with Velcro on the left side.
The Greg Jein P2 has the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro
The Unknown P2 has the Greg Jein P1 with Velcro - - Spock is carrying the Finney P2 in this scene with the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro
The Finney P2 in the famous insert shot from "The Man Trap" had IMO the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro on the left side
The Riley/Lenore on Kirk's gold belt had the Greg Jein P1 with Velcro on the left side.
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TOS Phaser
Active Member
Agreed - it was not the best choice to make a point.
I should have posted a warning about errors before the cap.
KUROK
Well-Known Member
That is something I never noticed before! That's a great catch!
feek61
Sr Member
Honestly dude, I don't even know what you are taking about, I am not even thinking about the B&W's; that is your deal. I am not "fixated" and have never stated that I believed the B&W heroes were never swapped; that is just more or your made-up B.S. I speculated that maybe the converted P1s were not swapped but have not thought about it again, because I don't believe there is enough evidence either way. How do you know the Finney P2 was worn on the gold belts on several occasions? Who knows how many B&W P1's had velcro? Do you have any proof of anything you are saying besides super pixelated screen caps? Which phaser and how many did Shatner drop?
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Lightning
Master Member
That makes sense, it's unlikely they would have handed him a broken phaser to film the scene with, but they totally would have finished filming a scene with a newly chipped phaser, especially when they realized they could keep the broken side away from the camera.
It occurs to me that I forgot to show my Brad Nelson replica (PHASE II style, with removable handle), painted in the same Shadow Gray as my TOS hero and midgrade.
The color really does change depending on the lighting. The blue tint isn’t really visible in this shot. Looks more like the Wand version, here.
The color really does change depending on the lighting. The blue tint isn’t really visible in this shot. Looks more like the Wand version, here.
TOS Phaser
Active Member
As I have stated many times in many places - I only have the evidence revealed to my eyes (and my years of drawing and drafting experience )- via the High Resolution screen caps from the Original Series.
1. How do you know the Finney P2 was worn on the gold belts on several occasions?
- - In "The Enemy Within" - Spock wears IN MY OPINION - the future WMC "Finney" P2 (with the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro that WMC later converted to the third closeup Hero P1, removing the P2 carry Velcro and dressing the P1 out with blue jewel and watch crown, for insert shots) on his gold pistol belt. (Cap below.) And I believe the B&W Hero P2 that Spock wears on the planet's surface in "The Man Trap" is also the future Finney P2 with the Lost P1.
2. Who knows how many B&W P1's had velcro?
- - The Desilu "Inventory" memo that you shared with all of us reflects there were 4 Practial P2s and 4 Practical P1s. Thus if you can see two Practical P2s hanging on two gold belts in a single scene in "The Man Trap" - the logical conclusion must be - there were two B&W Hero P1s with carry Velcro on the left side.
It was never my intention to insult you or your work. To the contrary I am very grateful you have shared many of the important fruits from your labors in researching the Desilu Studios archives! Thank You "feek61"!
I should not have to be afraid to express my opinion on this forum - because someone is going to bash me instead of my theory or observations!
Expressing my theories, observations and opinions on a safe forum like therpf is the very definition of freedom of expression!
And as you may have noticed I am not shy (to a fault my wife would say) about expressing my opinions. I regret that my "tone and volume" comes across as a lecture.
I believe the B&W Hero P2 in this cap zoom from "The Enemy Within" is the future WMC Finney P2 and the B&W Hero P1
matted to this hanging Hero P2 is the twin of the TMOST P1 with Velcro on the left side.
And I believe the B&W Hero hanging on Spock's gold belt in this scene from "The Man Trap" is the future WMC Finney P2 with the twin of the TMOST P1.
This B&W Hero P2 on Spock's belt in the scene from "The Man Trap" is the same as the one below:
The B&W Hero P2 shown in these different scenes is IN MY OPINION the future WMC "Finney" P2 with the twin of the TMOST P1 that had Velcro on the left side for carrying B&W Hero P2s on gold pistol belts.
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