Is this Stormtrooper mold story just Propaganda?

[Too Much Garlic]

If it is as Gino states, "from the buildup" and not in the faceplate itself... would seem that the original helmet the mold came from would still have that crimp in it... unless it was popped back out before it was copied?

At least that's my guess, which is why it's not in the mold and wasn't fixed on the mold afterwards. If it was not known at the time that the kink was supposed to be there it could have been assumed that it had been dented along the way.

This is all just speculation on my part. And yes, the trap picture was awesome... and I commend GINO for showing it. It's one thing to trust someone's word blindly, but to see it illustrated in a picture adds so much more weight to a claim. And... evidence stops rumor and speculation from becoming fact.

 

[JoeR]

Guys

Here is my SF original JEDI Stormtrooper Helmet taken apart.

This is a Jedi helmet, a generation apart from the HDPE helmets and yet is still has the 'kink'. This is not from assembly, I have owned two original JEDI helmets, one with RIVETS one without, it is not from assembly, can anyone actually take this on board, IT IS NOT FROM ASSEMBLY.

As I have said before I admire GINO as a talented artisan, but his claim of unmodified molds that touched Matt's original are simply not true.

A picture is what is needed, please see the 'kink' that you have all been fooled into thinking is due to assembly...

 

[JoeR]

The helmet lost its ear approx 25-30 years ago, here is the kink again.

 

[JoeR]

The 'kink' is clearly not from assembly, that is why it appears on every original helmet, and even the recast JEDI helmets. The kink is a quirk from the mold. The 'kink' is not on GINO's helmets, hence they are modified. Is anyone seeing what is right in from of their faces yet?

GINO stated and has been quoted already as saying that he had untouched molds that touched the inside of the original. This is not true, he has altered molds that were copies of altered molds that touched the inside of an original helmet.

I am not arguing that he doesn't have bags of talent, way more than myself. Just be straight and don't try to misrepresent what you have and then charge $1,000 a pop.

This is the point of this thread....

Anyone get it yet?

Joe

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

another pointless thread......
this started out as Gino lying about the helmets that he sold for high prices...

No, this thread started as Joe accusing GINO with NO evidence. GINO in turn offered up some pretty clear photos of his pieces, more clear than I have ever seen him offer up for mass review. I have to go back to the teardrop Oldken pointed to. Not one of you has refuted that image. I wonder why.

Edit: Oh, and we have already heard from one buyer who is extremely happy. I don't hear anyone else chiming in against it who has bought the helmet. Don't try to spin anger where there is none.

 

[JoeR]

No, this thread started as Joe accusing GINO with NO evidence. GINO in turn offered up some pretty clear photos of his pieces, more clear than I have ever seen him offer up for mass review. I have to go back to the teardrop Oldken pointed to. Not one of you has refuted that image. I wonder why.

Edit: Oh, and we have already heard from one buyer who is extremely happy. I don't hear anyone else chiming in against it who has bought the helmet. Don't try to spin anger where there is none.

The tear proves zero. He could have added that at any point. It is hardly proof.

Don't try to spin anger where there is none

Deja vu? When he does it is fine, you guys kill me. Qui you just argue in every thread anyway regardless of whether you have any knowledge, perhaps you should join a debating forum?

I have a passion for original Stormtrooper helmets and a passion for the truth, I object to lies and spin used to remove dollars from peoples wallets.

Joe

 

[JoeR]

Exoray, read my post and look at the new pictures, now try to respond with regards to the molds, helmets and nothing else.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

The tear proves zero. He could have added that at any point.

Deja vu?

Joe

It all boiled down to an accusation from you based on a photo of a mold that has been cleaned up. The mold, that if memory serves, the banned person in question said was "unusable" when he got it back, right? That is the crux of your accusation. It isn't what was said, it was what YOU have shown. You used that picture to try and back up that you think people paid too much for their helmets from GINO. I would not have paid $1000 for the helmet. Some have and appear to NOT regret that decision. In fact, I remember one buyer who was sad he had to part with his helmet to pay some bills.

So, the man offers up counter proof to yours, and your only reply is "He could have added that at any point." You mean much like that mold was cleaned up at any point? Only three people know what went down in this instance. One is not here(That I know of), the other is a known liar and the third is GINO. You were not involved in the deal, nor was anyone else on this, or any other forum.

I don't get the "deja vu" comment, so perhaps you should explain how it applies to THIS topic.

Guys, this smelled like a dogpile from the word "GO!". The only ones involved are the usual suspects who slam GINO. You've even attacked the staff, EXACTLY like I told them you would yesterday morning when I saw you start this nonsense. I just get tired of watching it and I wish to the Gods you could all learn how to get along without all of the accusation and finger pointing. Live and let live, I say. He has caused you NO HARM (To my knowledge) Joe, yet the attacks continue. Hell, I don't know 90% of you enough to dislike you.

I have a serious question that is OT to this thread that I would like you to answer if you would be so kind. GINO has stated he is not offering up his helmets to anyone else but close friends. Is this attack based on him getting a really good vac forming machine for his home and it makes you think he will sell these helmets on the open market again?

The point of my question is that many times people try and force provenance where there is none. They push forth these claims to try and bolster sales of their parts. As long as GINO is not selling his wares any longer (And hasn't sold a thing in a very long time...) why do you care what he calls them? I don't care what you call your collection as long as you are not selling it.

So that said, why not save an attack like this for when it would matter? It really amazes me that some of you are basing your attacks on the words of liars and thiefs.(Banned members and pond crafters come to mind)

 

[JoeR]

Qui, you are missing the point and are blinded in your defense of GINO. As usual you are qrguing for the sake of arguing.

As I said to Exoray, read my previous posts with the new pictures and comment on Stormtrooper helmets and molds. This is not about semantics and debating, it is about two lies that were used to misrepresent a product.

Joe

Edit, which banned members exactly, I have not mentioned Matt nor relied on anything he said, I am relying on the statements of Dan Laws the guy that made these molds?

 

[exoray]

The tear proves zero. He could have added that at any point. It is hardly proof.

And he lack of the 'kink' proves zero as well if you want to nit pick, it could easily be attributed to the part relaxing in that area when being molded... Same as the kink in the Jedi helmet being exaggerated or emphasized while molding due to the process... There are so many variables that could exaggerate or lessen that kink between helmets and molding processes that it's hardly any substantial proof of anything...

But I suspect your claimed 'proof' can't be argued right? Funny how you claim Gino added the tear details got any 'proof' of that or is it just another unsubstantiated claim to kick him because you can't except it as 'proof'?

 

[JoeR]

And he lack of the 'kink' proves zero as well if you want to nit pick, it could easily be attributed to the part relaxing in that area when being molded... Same as the kink in the Jedi helmet being exaggerated or emphasized while molding due to the process... There are so many variables that could exaggerate or lessen that kink between helmets and molding processes that it's hardly any substantial proof of anything...

Wrong, the 'kink' is present in every single original that has come to light, yet mysteriously it is missing from GINO's helmets and molds? Try looking at a few more pictures and then come back to me. It is present in soft and sharp helmets, recasts of originals that became the JEDI helmets.

If I am wrong why doesn't he post pictures of the tubes on his molds from a few angles?

Like Qui you are just arguing about arguing, and offering nothing substantial. The proof is in GINO's statements and the pictures of his replicas that are void of a substantial detail on every ANH, ESB and ROTJ helmet.

Joe

@ Qui, I was not happy with the mods because I can get accused of something with zero evidence and pictures and nothing happens to the thread but God forbid anyone try to out GINO's lies, he is protected on the forum and that is hardly fair now is it? Art sticks up for him at every opportunity, an example TM was banned without proof of being a recaster. It is who you know that counts on here as in all areas of life. I am just trying to point out the misrepresentation, sorry for trying to discover the truth fellow collectors!

 

[GINO]

I'm sorry but some of the things I've read here are just pathetic.

My very first post in this thread was one that directed to the FISD archived armor history thread where I stated on record in 2007 exactly what was the deal with my molds. This is where it states that mine are unaltered duplicates.

Although that was not the first time that was revealed, it was the first time it was archived for anyone to go back and reference.
This information has been there all this time if any of you know-it-alls to see.

It's simple and quite plain for everyone to see that you people are holding onto some technicality because you have nothing else to hold onto.

As for the way my propstory is worded, sure it could have been worded more clearly, but that was how it was written. It gets the point across enough for me. For those who wanted more in-depth explanation or clarification, I've directed you to where that is. Where it has always been for everyone to see.

So you did not see it?
Maybe you should educate yourself to the facts more before you come at me with your 'theories'.

You did see it and feel it is in contradictory to what I stated on record?
All you had to do was ask.
PS, and the fact that you call my propstories 'ads' shows me just how off your perceptions really are.

I've answered all your questions. Gave you insight that you did not have before. What more could you want? Oh that's right. You want it to not be true. Sorry, can't help you there.

Like I said a million times, this thread is one born out of straight jealousy and people who have an axe to grind.


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[JoeR]

See you don't have a leg to stand on and won't contradict the truth.

Your molds didn't touch the inside of an original
Your molds are modified

There, thread over.

By the way I think that your replicas are top notch, I applaud your finishing skills.

Just stop the lying, simple.

Joe

 

[exoray]

Wrong, the 'kink' is present in every single original that has come to light

What is wrong with suggesting it could relax or exaggerate with the molding process? I have never said it doesn't appear to be there, but that doesn't mean it could not have been lessened or lost in the molding process...

You base your whole argument on a single 'kink'? While I still have seen ZERO proof offered that Gino's helmets don't have direct lineage to real helmets, they have many more small telling signs then ANY I repeat ANY other fan offered helmet... Yet you notice a single discrepancy and want people to immediately toss out every other detail that supports his claims? Sorry pal isn't going to happen...

 

[JoeR]

Flynn

The whole point is his molds are altered and he lied about it, and lied about the fact that they touched the inside of an original. I can't make it any clearer for anyone.

Let's all stop arguing as we will never agree and move on. Paint me as the bad person all you want I am fine with that.

Thank you to Art and co for letting this go on long enough for some truths to be aired.

Joe

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Qui, you are missing the point and are blinded in your defense of GINO. As usual you are qrguing for the sake of arguing.

As I said to Exoray, read my previous posts with the new pictures and comment on Stormtrooper helmets and molds. This is not about semantics and debating, it is about two lies that were used to misrepresent a product.

Joe

Edit, which banned members exactly, I have not mentioned Matt nor relied on anything he said, I am relying on the statements of Dan Laws the guy that made these molds?

Joe, you misinterpret what I am saying. It isn't arguing for the sake of arguing. I am simply pointing out things I see and asking you a serious question. You are also thinking I am defending GINO. I'm not, he does not need me to defend him. Who I am defending are the mods who were accused of bias, other members who will have blanket, unsubstantiated claims levied against them by people with some unclear axe to grind, nor dog in ANY fight. Joe, you have no dog and no fight. There was ZERO need for this thread. It is just one more thing that takes the fun out of collecting.

I'd like to see us get past the who "Cult of Personality" involved in collecting, but more and more, it is obvious we won't. I've always been impartial, and if you look at MY past, you will see it. Others have.

In closing...More GOODIES, less POINTLESS BICKERING.

 

[TKDUEUNO]

What more could you want? Oh that's right. You want it to not be true. Sorry, can't help you there.

.

No, I think the at least you should correct your propstory and apologize for false claims, since there's not a link to the FISD forum on your site and the majority of boards and more people can be fooled by that wrong statement.

Just set the record straight.

Sorry he never lied he made it very clear they were duplicate molds, you seem focused on misinterpreting a single paragraph and drawing your own assumptions rather then look at what Gino has been saying for years... And made public well in advance of the paragraph you are misinterpreting...

I know what he said, but since the false claim is still there on his site, the least he can do is correct it!

 

[JoeR]

I agree Qui for once. I am sure we would get on in the real world.

More goodies is great.

I was upset at the mods as the thread against me with no proof nor even a single picture was a free for all Joe bashing fest.

I post a thread which actually indentifies two misrepresentations and it gets pruned. That implies bias to me, why not let the thread run unpruned?

Joe

 

[GINO]

No, I think the at least you should correct your propstory and apologize for false claims, since there's not a link to the FISD forum on your site and the majority of boards and more people can be fooled by that wrong statement.

Just set the record straight.

I know what he said, but since the false claim is still there on his site, the least he can do is correct it!

You think I'm going to let this group of haters dictate what or how I write my descriptions on my site? If so, you don't know me.

And if there is any apology in order, it is from Joe for starting this BS thread.
Although I suppose in the end, it does serve to further illustrate what jealousy and pettiness will drive these people to do.


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[Qui-Gonzalez]

Well, I think the at least you should correct your propstory and apologize for false claims, since there's not a link to the FISD forum on your site and the majority of boards.

Just set the record straight.

The record is pretty well set straight. The membership on his board is minimal compared to here. So why not post the link where a HUGE majority of people who are interested in this branch of the hobby will see it?

Joe, I am going to state this to you. I do not dislike you. I don't really know you. If there had been something in your offering I could get behind, I would have. I'd have defended you vehemently. You accuse me of arguing for the sake of arguing, yet this thread was started as an accusation and the dogpile ensued, as I am sure you knew it would. Kinda like arguing for the sake of arguing, right?

Now, would your questions have not been better handled by PMing GINO to ask him "Hey, what is the real deal here, man? I know we have a past, but can you tell me why this mold looks like it has been repaired when you say it was unaltered?" Then, if you got no response, you could have brought it to the masses.

I mean, if more of you would man up and handle things in a civil manner, this sort of thing would not happen. We would be a tight knit community of thousands of collectors who SHARE with each other. As it stands now, there are cliques and those cliques are tight-lipped with the info. Personal attacks and dogpiles started by people who I can only say are envious of each other. I am not even talking about you and GINO right now, just a generalization.

Oh, and the things you have said about me...before I even replied, I told the staff yesterday that this is exactly what would happen. I hated being right here.

As far as the "pruning" goes, I saw some of what was written yesterday. Can you honestly tell me it helped this thread stay civil?