Is this Stormtrooper mold story just Propaganda?

[vaderdarth]

the word "duplicate" cannot be found within that ad. I've read it about 6 times in the last 20 minutes. It ain't there. I was here when he sold the helmets the first time around............he didn't use the word duplicate back then!


Lemme try to simplify this:

If Dick tells Jane that his moulds have touched the insides of screen helmets by way of his written Ad on Monday........

....wait for it..........................................................................................................

Then Dick tells Jane his moulds are copies of the moulds that touched the insides of the screen helmets on Tuesday....

....Wait for it.........................................................................................................

Dick has to be lying on either Monday...............or Tuesday.

The beauty of it is...............you only have to pick your favorite day of the two...............it doesn't matter he still lied no matter which day you pick. See???

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

I'm going off what I've been reading; what Gino has said and what the others have said.

You quoted Gino saying he used duplicates. I don't have to have been here before to comprehend that.

Read the entire thread.... My quote is 100%, letter for letter what Gino typed himself.

 

[mrsmartypants]

show me anywhere in that ad above, where he states the moulds are duplicates. He states the helmets are duplicates.........not the moulds. HUGE difference!

Before I go any further VD, honestly, I can see your side of this issue and I can see how after reading the ad, you come to the conclusion you do. I just happen to come to a different conclusion.

As to your question, Gino states his helmets are formed from molds that touched the insides..blah, blah.

What does that mean? Did he makes molds of the molds or did he use only the original molds to make his helmets?

I guess the "formed" is what is drawing the line in the sand here and only Gino really knows the answer. He has gone on record to say he used duplicates of the original molds and not the original molds themselves.

For myself, Exoray, Rollerboi and others, we interpret the ad as him using duplicates of the molds; and by Gino's own admission (quoted by JoMamma_Smurf) he used duplicates of the original molds. This only supports our collective conclusion that much further.

 

[exoray]

Dude, when you claim your helmet...that you are selling...came directly off an "untampered with" mould that touched the inside of screen helmets.................

One must stop right there, this is your interpretation and assumption on what was written and it's obvious that not everyone is interpreting the language the same way... I have broken it down based on the technical aspects of the actual wording based on English language structure and the words used, if you would like to point out where I flawed in my evaluation of what was written on a technical and scholar level please engage...

But if you insist on simply rambling about black and white and that your interpretation and assumption is the only correct one and the others are rubbish, then there is no use in continuing...

 

[exoray]

the word "duplicate" cannot be found within that ad.

Nor is the word 'original' , your point?

 

[vaderdarth]

but now it is up to you to convince me that the posted ad...................in any capacity, claims duplication of a mould. If he wanted you to think he duplicated a mould.............I promise you, he would have done so. what he wanted to make you think, was that your helmet that you paid good money for............came off a buck that had touched the inside of a screen used helmet. That, apparently, was found out not to be the case later. That is precisely the claims in dispute here. He only ever mentioned "copy of the buck" when he was called out for it.

when a guy looks at the camera and says while pointing a finger at the camera......."I did not have sexual relations with that woman" Everyone assumes he has not in any inappropriate manner, violated "that woman" with his cigar. If he didn't mention the cigar much less where he poked it.................how in the love of all that's Holy, can any sane individual assume he just might have anyway????? Do you guys all suffer from Telepathy or something????

 

[vaderdarth]

Exoray, Gino neither used the word original nor duplicate. That's my point. Given his written description, it is logical to assume it's "original" because he emphasizes that his mould touched the inside of the screen helmet.

On the other hand, it would not be logical to assume he meant "duplicate" because he's far to preoccupied with the insides of the original screen used helmets. That is what his Ad wants you to focus on.

At worst, the ad is a blatant lie. At best it is an intentional misrepresentation of the product. In either case it's false advertisement! We didn't used to tolerate that behavior on this forum. Times be a changin!!!!

 

[mrsmartypants]

What I quoted was said YESTERDAY!!!! NOT WHEN THE HELMETS WERE SOLD!!! This is about misrepresenting the items that were sold at the time....AND THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT!!!

Glad I didn't buy one of these helmets only to find out I bought a recast. Thats exactly what it boils down to.

I'm done...have fun.

Heh, you said that earlier, but you're still here. :lol

Anyway, I'm still reading through the armor history on FISD, but on Sept 15, 2007, Gino did claim his molds duplicates: "That's correct, however the mold I have for the ANH faceplate is a mold duplicate taken back in 1999 before it was modified and sent back to Matt. The ANH back/cap mold I have is a mold duplicate made off the original before it took the damage it now has currently. ."

Now, I'm not informed enough to know when Gino was selling his helmets, but he's at least been sticking to the same story he's presented here since Sept of 2007.

 

[mrsmartypants]

Exoray, Gino neither used the word original nor duplicate. That's my point. Given his written description, it is logical to assume it's "original" because he emphasizes that his mould touched the inside of the screen helmet.

On the other hand, it would not be logical to assume he meant "duplicate" because he's far to preoccupied with the insides of the original screen used helmets. That is what his Ad wants you to focus on.

At worst, the ad is a blatant lie. At best it is an intentional misrepresentation of the product. In either case it's false advertisement! We didn't used to tolerate that behavior on this forum. Times be a changin!!!!

I don't know if I would say it's a blatant lie, but I do agree that it is misleading (whether intentional or unintentional).

 

[vaderdarth]

Mr. Smartypants, that ad is right in front of ya. Show me in that ad where he mentions the duplicate mould. show me any wording in that ad that even loosely implies a duplicate mould.........................I didn't think so.

 

[exoray]

what he wanted to make you think

it would not be logical to assume

Thank you for finally agreeing that your conclusions are based on your assumptions not the written words, that has been my whole point... You read something, and then you then wrote your own assumptions between the lines and are now attempting to argue that your assumptions are factual while the other sides are frivolous...

Two possible interpretations of the original written word and a clarification by the author when confronted and asked, does not constitute a lie because one of the interpretations was incorrect...

Just like when I state as a matter of fact 1+1=10... True or not?

 

[vaderdarth]

I won't buy into that Exoray............not when tons of money is on the line. If you are gonna take responsibility for selling a high dollar item and you are gonna accept gross amounts of money for said item.............you have to make your ad crystal clear.

My assumption is related only to what I think his mindset was.

His Ad leaves no room for assumptions.

 

[exoray]

Now, I'm not informed enough to know when Gino was selling his helmets, but he's at least been sticking to the same story he's presented here since Sept of 2007.

Well the copyright notice on the page everyone is arguing about is 2008, thus BEFORE that page (that everyone is calling a lie do to misinterpretation of the writing) was even created the point of contest was clearly explained in clear detail to the public well in advance by the author...

Me thinks it's more a matter of lack of diligence and research combined with assumptions and misinterpretation vs a lie...

 

[vaderdarth]

Nope, I can interpret his mindset all day long.

His ad, however, leaves no room for interpretation in it's wording.

the "power sell" states: "my helmet is from the moulds that touched the inside of the screen used helmets". Unfortunately for the many buyers, they did not.

the buyers have the right to be extremely upset by this wording now that they know it isn't true.

 

[exoray]

the "power sell" states: "my helmet is from the moulds that touched the inside of the screen used helmets"

As I have said before your 'assumptions' do not constitute fact... I fail to see the falsely quoted text above anywhere on Gino's page, so it appears you are now creating false quotes to support your argument? Or somehow suggesting your written between the lines 'assumptions' are now quotes of Gino's?

 

[mrsmartypants]

Mr. Smartypants, that ad is right in front of ya. Show me in that ad where he mentions the duplicate mould. show me any wording in that ad that even loosely implies a duplicate mould.........................I didn't think so.

The ad states "Out of all the other replica helmets out there, the largest thing that sets mine apart from the others is that they are the ONLY helmets formed from non-cleaned up, undamaged, and non-restored molds of the back/cap, faceplate, and ears (all of which touched the insides of two real screen used helmets)."

So yes, you are correct, it does not specifically state it is a duplicate mold. However, the way I and others interpret that is that he used duplicate molds.

You and others interpret it differently and by your own admission, you logically assume he is referring to original molds (and I can see how that conclusion could be drawn). You're not using black and white statements, but rather coming to a "logical" conclusion based on your interpretation of the ad's wording.

I doubt we'll be able to agree on duplicate vs original, but I can at least agree the ad is misleading and can be interpreted in a more than one way.

I'll see how I feel after I finish reading the armor history on FISD.

In the meantime, when did Gino start selling these helmets and when did his ad appear? I know he has been claiming the use of duplicate molds since at least September 2007 as documented on FISD.

 

[lonepigeon]

A lot of pointless bickering on here.

Fact is, the helmets aren't even second generation, for that they'd have to be cast from a helmet from the original mold.
Gino's is still the only unaltered mold as stated and this isn't in dispute.
It seems that this whole thing is because people feel Gino charges too much and the competition is jealous he has unaltered (though duplicate) molds.

 

[gizmo]

Well I just wanted to chime in and say that I`ve owned all the high end Stormtrooper helmets and have a Gino v2.I in no way feel cheated by him or misguided by his statments as what I have is by far the best out there.Not just because of mold pedigree but also the quality of forming,accessories,assembly and finish.

Sure you can call the guy out on his blunt and stubborn ways towards people but 99.9% of the time the guy is right and his replicas speak for themselves.

Also as keith says I think sometimes we get a little too wrapped up in the hobby and should think about the important things in life like family and our spouses.With that said I`m off to play with my 2 yr old boy who is starting to love watching the new Clone Wars series with me.

Ben

 

[Sporak]

Wow, I just read through all of this ...and I guess my question is...are any of Gino's customers complaining about what they bought?
Are they satisfied with their purchases?

Now if one of them had some problem with what was used to make their helmet or was unsatisfied I guess they should take that up with Gino himself...

I laugh though because only Mr. Lucas is the "owner" of any of this stuff


IDIC

(It's a Star Trek thing)

 

[OldKen]

I don't have a problem with either side. And while I've known Gino on the interwebz for many years he isn't a "close friend" or whatever.

Guys, you KNOW That this is new... and none of you said ONE word.

Proof in da puddin boys.

.

Even if the indent under the cheek tube was altered...

Gino's helmets IMHO LOOK the closest to screen used out there. I've held them all. I HAVE seen 2 screen used helmets up close and personal, in person...

I'm sorry... the little tear drop pic doesnt do ANYTHING for you guys? :confused

That detail is missing from ALL other available fan made casts.

Right?


TE 1's are the closest to Ginos (wonder why?) but don't have the detail in the tear, TE2 helmets are nice if you clean up the front of the capback where the molds have started to fall apart. And AP's are GREAT for trooping... but lack deffinition of any kind. Just like the ol GF's

Laws look really good other than the protruding lower face (Supposedly its all in the build, but they all have that look?) and the fact that now we KNOW the little oval in the tear is WRONG.

I really think that Gino's is the closest thing out there when it comes to all the little nuances. But hey, alot of people think the SDS/AA helmets are 100% accurate to the screen used stuff... I don't see it. Deffinately a step up from MR etc. but not near as close to the real deal as a TE, TM, or Gino. Those are the top 3 IMHO and Gino's buckets are just that one notch more... they go to 11!

I WOULD like to know what exactly the pinch in the tube is from though...

If it is as Gino states, "from the buildup" and not in the faceplate itself... would seem that the original helmet the mold came from would still have that crimp in it... unless it was popped back out before it was copied?

Would deffinately like to see Gino make a helmet with his molds have that crimp in it from assembly ALONE.

And in that lies the real question... :confused


Edit: been up on and off through the night sick, so I'm a bit out of it! Be easy on me! LOL! Again, everything I said is just MHO. Nothing against Joe or FBJ.