Iron Man 3 (Post-release)

Now in case you missed it, the vice president acts as a puppet because of his daughter, missing a limb, and probably in the waiting list for the Extremis virus if daddy plays nice.

So, the vice president commits treason in order to get the Extremis virus to use on his daughter/granddaughter only for her to possibly later explode (probably in a public place even though they know the Extremis virus is unstable) for no apparent reason. Nowhere in the movie from what I can recall do they explain why some people explode and others don’t. (Bad writing)

The charging armor problem now, it's logical that the armors have their own power source, since they can be used without tony inside. His arc was never designed to power a suit for an extended time by the way, just his electro-magnet. Remember IM1 "power his heart for 15 lifetimes or something big for 15 minutes". So while his own arc can indeed power a suit, they need their own arc for prolonged use. And my guess is he's not too keen on using his own arc very much, after nearly dying twice from doing it.

Each suit has their own arc reactor. The arc reactor is a power plant, not a rechargeable battery. Just like a nuclear power plant isn’t a rechargeable battery and just like a nuclear reactor needs fuel to “recharge” (in this case uranium) the arc reactor needed more of the element he created in Iron Man 2. Instead he uses a car battery ? The whole reason Obediah Stane stole Tony’s arc reactor in IM 1 was to power the Iron Monger suit. According to IM3 all he probably needed was a couple of car batteries. (again bad writing)

Weak armors : they indeed seemed weaker than in the past. But, notice how the prototype can take a heavy beating when Tony is in it ? The problem intervene while the armors are empty, they somehow are not as strong. Even with this, the extremis soldier can burn at metal melting point temperature, no wonder they can do so damage to the suits. Plain old regular villain wouldn't have lasted a minute against those suits. Look at the people in the plain ! There stood no chance against Savin in the Patriot. And Savin didn't even know how to use the weapons, he only used his palm repulsors, fists and a gun found on a bodyguard.

I’m sorry, but your explanation doesn’t make sense. You’re reaching. There shouldn’t be a difference in the strength of the armors whether somebody is in them or not. The ease in which they are destroyed at the end doesn’t fit at all with the previous movies and goes against the character of the armors as established in the previous movies. Even in the previous movies where the armors were damaged they at least seemed to offer some if not total resistance. The Extremis soldiers seem to cut through them like a hot knife through butter and ,not only that, but their clothing seems unaffected by their abilities. Maybe in the next movie Tony should make the new suits out of the same material as Pepper’s sports bra. It seems to hold up better against Extremis abilities then the suits.

The Patriot being controlled by Killian : that was already said, AIM worked on it for the branding, like Hammer did in IM2. The armor was locked and inaccessible while on Rhodey, although somehow neutralised (I suspect by frying the circuits temporary thanks to extremis power) but once killian cooked him out, they probably got access to the software and reprogrammed it. Why ? To get close to the president, as a trojan horse. Why put the president in it ? Because the thing is remote controlled by AIM, what is the president gonna do in it ? He's trapped like a rat...

Again a scene that didn’t make sense. Why was Iron Patriot so easily incapacitated ? Just because Savin heated up a small part of the armor everything else doesn’t work ? And why was Iron Patriot so easily hacked. You’d think after IM 2 when War Machine was hijacked by Vanko they would make it more difficult for somebody to hack the suits. One can assume that Tony made the Iron Patriot suit. Only Tony can use his suit because it’s only “coded” to him according to the final battle scene. Why didn’t he just “code” the suit for only Rhodey to use ?

Unfamiliar people using suits easily : they don't. All what Pepper can do is walk in it and open/close the faceplate. She doesn't even know how to activate the repulsors.

Not true. Pepper uses the RT to kill Killian right at the end even though it’s not connected to an arc reactor. All it should’ve been able to do is fly, and in my opinion, even that is a bit of a stretch. (Bad writing)

Why didn't Tony immediately jumped in one of the 40 something suits in the basement while he was under attack in his house and Pepper had the MK42 ? I strongly believe he was actually going to do that, right until half his house collapsed on the trap door. After that it was inaccessible until the cranes cleared it at the end. It's convenient for the movie plot, but it's not a plot hole... Why didn't one of the suit blow it from the inside ? One, explosion in confined underground spaces don't do well at all for what's inside, two the trap door looks a solid foot thick, and is most likely VERY strong to prevent anything from happening from the outside, and therefore the inside too.

Tony didn’t need to jump in any of the suits. They can be controlled by Jarvis. They are basically drones as seen in the final battle. Why not just give a command for Jarvis to activate all the suits and destroy the helicopters. (Major plot hole). Even if they were buried beneath the rubble, how is it possible for 34+ suits (minus suits from previous movies and mark 42), that can be remotely controlled by Jarvis, not break out.. Even if they didn’t blast their way out (which would be the most logical way) they could force their way out. Isn’t one of the suits called “the heavy lifter suit” aka Igor.. If it could lift a crane, surely it should have been able to break out by itself not mentioning the 34+ other suits helping. And there probably isn’t a need to”break” out of the vault anyway. Jarvis is uploaded into every suit and they should be able to open the vault from the inside by themselves (Again bad writing)

Here is a list of SOME of the other plot holes and plot device errors in the movie :

1- The attack on Tony's house. Tony Stark builds 35 suits (minus the seven from the previous movies) to be ready for any possible threatening scenarios in order to protect Pepper because she's the one thing he can't live without. He then calls out the bad guy only for the one scenario he seems not to have foreseen to happen - being attacked at his house, with Pepper in it, after giving the bad guy his address.

2- Killian needs Tony to stable-ise the Extremis virus/serum but sends three attack helicopters to kill him because he threatened the Mandarin - who by the way doesn't exist (Killian created the Mandarin - remember). Plot hole.

3- The Extremis soldier blowing up. They knew the extremis soldiers (at least some of them – not explained why) were unstable and yet Savin meets the guy in one of the most public places in Hollywood to give him the injector. If only they didn’t keep sending these guys into public places to blow up inconveniently there wouldn’t have been a need for Killian to create “Mandarin” cover story.

4- Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Tony endures a multitude of threats and injuries in the previous movies and no PTSD. Then all of a sudden develops PTSD after the one final battle in The Avengers. Even so, a deeply routed psychological disorder seems easily cured by “just building something”. He then continues to make a glove that can electrocute somebody and a couple of grenades and is instantaneously cured. You’d think after “building” 35 full suits after the Avengers he would’ve been cured long ago.

5- Maya – Extremis or no Extremis ? From the limited character development of Maya in the movie one would expect Maya to also have been injected with the Extremis virus/serum. After-all, it is basically her invention. This should explain why she turned bad (evil). Yet when Killian shoots her she dies instantly. No regeneration. (Vague character development).

6- Trevor’s bodyguards - Extremis or no Extremis ? Why wasn’t Trevor’s bodyguards also Extremis soldiers ? All the other bad guys seem to be. Maybe it’s because Tony wouldn’t be able to disable them so easily with his glove and grenades (after-all, he doesn’t need his armor anymore or does he ?).

7- The kid. Tony tells the kid, after the kid tells him what happened to his dad, to not be a “******. Because dads leave”. Yet, one of the main plot points of Iron Man 2 revolved around Tony’s dad not being there for him as a “kid” and how he, over the course of the movie, comes to terms with it. You’d think he would sympathize with the kid but instead he fires off an insulting one liner for the sake of comedy. I find this insensitive and contrary to Tony Stark’s character as established in the previous movies. Also, Tony Stark is completely irresponsible by dragging someone else kid into dangerous situations without their guardians knowledge or permission. Where I come from that's called kidnapping. Again against character.

8- The mark 42 flying suit sections. The suit pieces have difficulty breaking through the chained door. Why don’t they just form the complete suit and break through. Also, the suit pieces seem to be capable of covering hundreds of miles in a couple of minutes even though they don’t have an apparent power source (not connected to an arc reactor - Not believable). Again, it would’ve been more believable if the pieces formed a complete suit capable of supersonic flight (which it doesn’t show, in case your thinking that)

9- Air Force One rescue. Basic physics seem to fly out of the window. It looked like a bunch of people suspended by wires. Instead why not have the suit break apart in mid air, as set up in earlier scenes, and have individual pieces of the suit attach to each person falling, slowing down their descent into the water and revealing in that way the suit was being remotely controlled. Instead we get another useless comedic scene of the suit being hit by a truck, flying apart, revealing it was remotely controlled. Instead of a cool scene showing an interesting capability of the mark 42 we get a scene showing how weak it is all for the sake of comedy.

10- Killian. For me probably the worst villain in all the Iron Man movies. I found his motivations extremely weak. Not only that, he isn’t even the only one with the Extremis abilities, he’s one of many and even turns Pepper into one.(Everything special about him comes out of a bottle). That to me makes for an extremely generic bad guy.

11- Point of main plot. The main plot of the movie was to show that Tony Stark doesn’t need to wear the armor. Yet, in the final scenes he not only needs one suit but 35+ other suits in order to defeat the bad guys. And in the end it’s not even him defeating the main villain, but Pepper, and guess what, by using part of the suit (even though she doesn't have an arc reactor). I’m not even going to mention why the other suits only show up at the end of the movie.

12- Removal of shrapnel. I think this is probably the biggest plot hole of all the plot holes. Not only does it destroy the plot of IM 3 but makes everything that happened after Tony Stark was rescued from the cave in IM1 redundant. As probably mentioned in this thread multiple times, if it was so easy to remove the shrapnel from Tony’s chest why didn’t they do it immediately after he was rescued in the beginning of IM 1. And there is no mention in the movie that he used the Extremis virus on himself in order to regenerate. Just by saying at the end of the movie that he used a stabilized version of the Extremis virus on himself to heal would’ve covered this major mistake.(Bad writing).

All the above and all the posts in this thread shows exactly what’s wrong with this movie. For every argument there is a counter argument and this is because the screenplay is vague and badly written. At times the writers and director seemed either oblivious to what happened in the previous movies or they completely ignored what happened in the previous movies (not even mentioning the comic books) thus causing huge plot holes or major errors in plot devices. The plot devices and character motivations are so vague that it is completely open to interpretation by the audience. This shouldn’t be. Everything you need to know about a scene or a character’s motivation should all be contained within the movie. All this discussion about why a character did this or why he did that should be explained within the context of the movie. You should be able to walk out of the cinema and not have any questions, as were the case with the previous movies including Avengers.

In my opinion, the writers and director are at fault. They seemed completely unfamiliar with the genre and out of their depth. What may work in a cop buddy comedy doesn’t translate into a comic book movie.

And I can almost hear everybody screaming “ You’re an idiot. Look how much money it’s making and how high it’s rated on imdb”. To me this only explains why “Firefly” was cancelled after 1 season and “Keeping up with the Kardashians” has been running for 9.

But in the end, it's only a movie.

Moving on.

Cheers.
 
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^^ wow... I believe you have read entirely too far into a science fiction movie... It sounds like you have taken the movie personal? If you really want to get down to specifics, nothing in this movie is technically possible, so the whole movie is a wash....

Sent from my HTC One X
 
ColKel,
I agreed with your opinion.

I feel like this movie is good for the eyes only.
Story wise, it was full of plot holes and bad, bad writing (100% agree with ColKel).
If the opinion "it is just a movie", hm..why bother to do the thread, and read, and comment. Sorry but no means to attack on anybody.

I wanna add my thoughts:
1. Mk41 or so called bones, is basically a prototype of Mk42. In the final battle scene, it was shown that the suit break into several parts and give the extremis soldiers couple of punches. It works well in assembling/disassembling. Why Mk42 which is added skin version, it got so many problem?

2. If Tony intended to protect his house and Pepper and he got 42 suits, he should be ready with "house party protocol". There was a lot of time for him to order Jarvis the protocol. But again, if that happened, it'll be a very short movie.

3. Mk42 when powered down can be separated in pieces by Tony's kick. Broken down in pieces with butt plate slap, hit by a truck, and the most ridiculous way, tripped over a wood pole.

4. Igor supposed to keep the platform balance. When clean slate protocol was initiated, would the platform destabilized, while Tony and Pepper still not clear the area?

5. The arc reactor as power source and the whole suit controlled by other is something that was already become a plothole, ever since Mk2 being stolen by Rhodes. The story got interested when Tony was being asked to surrender his suit, and Pepper threaten to sue the government/military for stealing. But it didn't go anywhere from there. Instead, now it has WM2.0 then IP? BTW, who make the IP? Rhodes steal for the second time? Tony gave a suit to Rhodes? If he gave Rhodes a suit, then the argument of "me and the suit are one" is invalid.

6. The arc itself is kinda shady from the start. Does it keep the shrapnel out of Tony's heart, or it powers up the suit. If it keeping away the shrapnel, why when Obediah stole the arc, instead of the shrapnel goes inside the heart and ripped the heart tissue, Tony's got heart attack. When the old arc was placed, he is okay. It function more like a pace maker then. If the arc is the power source, why Rhides can steal Mk2. There was a schene where Rhodes took out the arc on Mk2. Does it means each suit has an arc? So when Tony's inside the suit, it actually have two arcs?

7. In IM1, it is already said that the arc make nuclear plant looks like a battery. So how can Tony charged Mk42 up to 94% by using car battery? It should drain a battery in seconds if not minutes. It'll be lucky to even reach 5%.

8. Rhodes fired 11 rounds in total, since he landed on a container followed by two extremis soldiers until he make the president safe. Before that he already fired several times. I just assume he carrying extra clips, but when Tony asked for more bullets, he refused. What a friend.

9. Rhodes can activated IP repulsor to cut the line. He was not even inside the suit. After he save the president, he wore the suit and fly off. IP programs supposed to be hacked?

10. Killian make extremis solders, same capability as him. As a Kungfu movies fan, the big boss always got more edge than the other villains/minions. If everything the same, how then he control the extremis soldier to always loyal to him? I agree for him being generic villain.

11. Why only Killian can successfully heat up IP in the stomach, while other extremis soldier can't? The answer: he breaths fire?

12. Several, not all suits (I've seen two or three) were blown during the house attack. Why the suit blown out/up? Because it got hit by a missile, which didn't directly hit the suit? The suit can withstand a tank bullet, giant rotating fan blades, alien attack, but suddenly an indirect explosion from a missile made the suit blown?

And I can continue the list........
 
So would you agree since The Dark Knight Rises is 8.6 on imdb and 87%/92% on Rotten Tomatoes that it's a better movie? :lol I'm just messing with you. I don't want this thread to head that direction but couldn't resist given your vocal disdain for the Nolan movies. ;)

But in all seriousness that is related to another issue I had with the movie. Right from the dark and moody trailers I couldn't help but be reminded of TDKR. Now those trailers turned out to be quite deceiving thankfully but there were still far too many similarities for me. They are certainly coincidental and probably more a result of summer movies being so formulaic these days but this is an interesting read nonetheless:
I tried to rationalize the IMdb/RT/Box office by mentioning Avatar. If Avatar can make that much cash - than any film can make big bank. Heck, the Nolan Batflicks are just as bad or worse than Avatar and they made pretty good money at the box office too. I can't justify that.

I guess I missed out on all the 'dark and moody trailers' - I expected an Iron Man movie. I got an Iron Man movie, one somewhat better than the previous one and at least on par with the first one. Does it have plot holes and do you have to take "leaps of faith?" Sure, it's a comic book/fantasy/SF film. Is it the best movie ever made? No. Is it better than most people here are saying - I think so.

If we're going to nitpick and cry about these films not being realistic then Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne would've been killed within the first act of their first movies. The end.
 
But that's exactly what we got with Killian. A generic villain, with no real back story who called himself The Mandarin. :unsure
Yup, no back story - as msleeper stated "Did you walk into the theater 10 minutes late?" But, let's add Pepper's references about him hitting on her at a previous job. Let's add his reliance/addiction on extremis; extremis "healing" him, etc. Was he a perfect villain? No... but neither was having him fight yet another man in armor (which was becoming a theme in the Iron Man movies).

I still say while Mandarin was a ruse used by Killian in IM3, there is still the potential to have a real Mandarin in a future movie.
 
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ColKel,
8. Rhodes fired 11 rounds in total, since he landed on a container followed by two extremis soldiers until he make the president safe. Before that he already fired several times. I just assume he carrying extra clips, but when Tony asked for more bullets, he refused. What a friend.
..

Rhodes points out that thew dont have the same model of gun so the magazines are not interchangable. They could also not have the same caliber so he may not have been able to just give him a handfull of bullets.
Also giving Tony bullets was sort of a waste because he was not a very good marksman.
 
Rhodes points out that thew dont have the same model of gun so the magazines are not interchangable. They could also not have the same caliber so he may not have been able to just give him a handfull of bullets.
Also giving Tony bullets was sort of a waste because he was not a very good marksman.

That's one thing I actually liked about how they had Rhodes play out. I think that small segment with Tony and Rhodes arguing about the ammunition is more of a stab/joke at other movies, since for the most part, all realism get's thrown out the window, and "suddenly" when the hero runs out of ammo, another person some how manages to "have another clip" (it's a magazine FYI). So I think that's what the director was really going for.

IIRC, at least with a 9MM, it holds 15 +1 rounds. I wasn't counting how many times Rhodes fired, but if he did carry extra ammunition, that argument wouldn't really matter..as he could have swapped mags between scenes.
 
ColKel, you did open my eyes on a few points, but I do not agree with everything you said, it looks like you take it a bit too seriously sometimes.
In the end, you're right it's just a movie, and with or without the "plotholes", I enjoy this movie anyway !
 
Yup, no back story - as msleeper stated "Did you walk into the theater 10 minutes late?" But, let's add Pepper's references about him hitting on her at a previous job. Let's add his reliance/addiction on extremis; extremis "healing" him, etc. Was he a perfect villain? No... but neither was having him fight yet another man in armor (which was becoming a theme in the Iron Man movies).

I still say while Mandarin was a ruse used by Killian in IM3, there is still the potential to have a real Mandarin in a future movie.

So...no REAL back story then, haha. It was weak, is my point. There must of been a magical 10 minutes I didn't see which went really i-depth, because the "Back story" I saw hardly happened. One moment hes a denied nerd, next time we see him he's evil and handsome. There's no real development of his character. And after his 'transformation' he holds the same tone right until the end.
 
So...no REAL back story then, haha. It was weak, is my point. There must of been a magical 10 minutes I didn't see which went really i-depth, because the "Back story" I saw hardly happened. One moment hes a denied nerd, next time we see him he's evil and handsome. There's no real development of his character. And after his 'transformation' he holds the same tone right until the end.
You may want avoid watching movies... Or start taking notes when you do go. :facepalm
 
I really just think that they could have done better, I enjoyed the movie but I didn't completely love it either and killian did have kind of a weak backstory

- - - Updated - - -

I also really hated that the mandarin was protrayed as a stupid actor
 
You may want avoid watching movies... Or start taking notes when you do go. :facepalm

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JD honestly killian was was a weak villian, mandarin sucked and also he had an army of suits that he could have used during the whole movie and instead he goes to home depot and make a taser that was pretty lame.
 
This has probably been addressed, but I am too lazy to comb through 14 pages to see.:angel While I thought it was the weakest of the three IM films, I liked it OK. I was just very confused as to why there were so many established "comic book" elements in it, but those elements were turned topsy turvy. Why use them at all if "you" are going to do your own thing? That was my biggest problem with it.
 
Anyone else kinda curious about all these War Machine Mark II stuff and it didnt even make it into the movie at all?
 
War Machine mkII was the preIM3 comic book that explained where Rhodey was during the battle of New York. Tony hated what Hammer did to the original WM, so he built a new one for Rhodey. Then it was rebranded by the government and AIM as Iron Patriot.

Oh, and it's also a marketing ploy to sell more merch.
 
JD honestly killian was was a weak villian, mandarin sucked and also he had an army of suits that he could have used during the whole movie and instead he goes to home depot and make a taser that was pretty lame.
JJGarza - you're entitled to your opinion. I never said Killian was strong villain - merely that he had a backstory. When you boil it down to the basics, other than the Mandarin twist (which some folks think worked very well - but, apparently some want a generic bad guy without any twists), Killian was just about every other superhero movie villain. Still stronger than what we got in IM2 and Batman Begins and Dark Knight Rises.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion... but, Tony acting without armor was the whole idea of this movie. It showed that Tony Stark is able to enough to get stuff done sans armor. Had Tony run around all movie around in his armor, just as many people would be crying about that.
 
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I get what your saying and I know that some people just like a generic bad guy but I was probably just expecting to much I wanted to see more hulk buster and space suit armor but oh well but the after credits scene was really funny.
 
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