How to get into the prop making industry

[DaddyfromNaboo]

I've been working in the industry for nearly 20 years and I've loved every minute of it.
...

In what position?

...
The point is if you love it and can make money doing it then you could be living the dream.

Yes, but I too know too many people who can´t because of low wages and really bad contracts, working long hours and not knowing what the next job might be. It greatly depends on the position you work in, though.

In addition, the movie business is very demanding on relationships. If you want to work in the movie business you should preferrably be alone or happy with a high fluctuation in life partners Or have a very tolerant one, which is quite rare.

 

[Jonny B]

THIS is the "Industry" in a very simple way....

Put a Director, a camera man and an actor in a sealed room with nothing in it except them. Hand the actor a steal ballbearing as a "prop" and shut the door. Wait five minutes.
When you open the door, the ballbearing will be broken, no one saw a thing, but it was your fault.

 

[JOATRASH FX]

While I don't work in films, I have met and talked to enough people that have confirmed my belief that I made the right decision 15+ years ago and steered in a slightly different direction. I actually ended up in the games industry, which sadly has taken on a LOT of the bad similarities of film but is at least a little more forgiving if you manage to navigate through it.

I read something once that really stuck: If there is anything else you can see yourself doing for a living and being happy, go do it now and never look back.

The above seems to apply to just about ANY entertainment-oriented career.

The problem with the "Work with what you love and it will never seem like work"- thing is that ALL work puts stress on you, even if you're having fun. I actually think the "fun" jobs are worse. The danger is that you will burn out and not see any signs until it's too late. You will also be more easily exploited. I've seen it happy many times (and been there myself back when I was green).

 

[Jediwannabe]

To respond to DaddyfromNaboo, I'm a producer and I have many close friends in every department. I can say the people that stick with it enjoy what they do. The unions guarantee a very fair wage and health benefits. Most of my productions consis of 10 to 12 hour shoot days which are the stamdard worldwide.

As for the burnout comment from Joe, yes there is stress in any work but it is all kept in perspective. We like to say "we aren't saving lives". I don't see myself ever getting burned out. I feel with exercise and a vacation here and there it's pretty easy to keep a healthy perspective.

 

[Jediwannabe]

I will note that freelancing does have a downside. There are periods when work seems to dry up and you can be without a job for a while. The people who last in the business are able to keep multiple avenues open so that if work dries up in one area, they can look to another. For example, I find my friends in the art related departments easily bounce from features, to commercials, to television, and even music video.

As for having to work with people like BrundelFly mentioned, idiots are in every field. I personally avoid working with them. Occasionally I do wind up working with one or two bad seeds and I just know not to work with them in the future.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

To respond to DaddyfromNaboo, I'm a producer and I have many close friends in every department. I can say the people that stick with it enjoy what they do. The unions guarantee a very fair wage and health benefits. Most of my productions consis of 10 to 12 hour shoot days which are the stamdard worldwide.

I see. Well, I´d have almost guessed so
As a producer you should know that 10 to 12 hour shoot days mean quite a few hours more for a few departments, such as makeup, costume and art department.
It´s a myth that the 10 to 12 days are a standard. It´s common practice, but that does not make it a standard. In fact, in a lot of countries it´s against the law to have work days that are that long, simply for safety reasons. A work week that consist of 60 hours, probably with night shoots or changes in shooting schedule because of unforeseen events can really exhaust people and make them actually sick. And if this is done week after week for e.g. a feature film, after such a project everybody needs a looong vacation.
There of course is pressure on the freelance producers, with a lot of new production companies entering the competition and the money being stretched thin (I guess that also has become a common practice world wide), and they are forced to hand the pressure down the hierarchy, but sometimes it´s bordering on criminal activities what I have witnessed in the past.

As for the burnout comment from Joe, yes there is stress in any work but it is all kept in perspective. We like to say "we aren't saving lives". I don't see myself ever getting burned out. I feel with exercise and a vacation here and there it's pretty easy to keep a healthy perspective.

Absolutely. But the work force with the smaller paychecks are forced to have a job immediately after the last one to pay the bills. I have seen quite a few people burn out or try to cope with the help of alcohol. Even heads of department. Very sad.

The thing is, although a lot of people aren´t working as freelancers but as employees, it is the same for all of them. A project may last a few months (over here it´s usually ten weeks for most art department and costume department personnel for a 90 min tv movie, about four to six weeks for grips, lighting, camera), but you never know if there´s going to be a next one.

Yes, the movie business is one of the toughest.

 

[NormanF]

Wow, this thread has at least got me so I no longer wish I had started making props 25 years ago to get into the business. That and it seems most of the work is in California and I'm not interested in living there.

 

[TylerHam]

Well, also - Production jobs like producers, coordinators, etc - Tend to be much more stable. Artists are looked at as "dime a dozen."

Plus, unions do help, IF you are part of one... Not every shop offers unions, and some unions - like the ones in VFX - really dont do anything to help you.. at all......

Keep it as a hobby, work on the things you WANT to work on, and get a stable career that pays benefits, retirement, and wont have you looking for a new job every 4 months.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

Well, also - Production jobs like producers, coordinators, etc - Tend to be much more stable. Artists are looked at as "dime a dozen."

Yes, but not nearly as stable as they were ten years ago. We are actually all in the same boat.

Plus, unions do help, IF you are part of one... Not every shop offers unions, and some unions - like the ones in VFX - really dont do anything to help you.. at all......

With new parts of (any) country, but here the U.S. becoming interesting for production companies because of cheaper work force and tax deductions, e.g. the Missisipi area around New Orleans IIRC, the less likely a crewmember will be part of a union. I have read about this already two years ago in a publication by the Art Directors Guild about this. A true conflict, having professionals work on a movie and having to provide housing and transport, member of a union, or only hire an experienced art director and only use locals ...

Keep it as a hobby, work on the things you WANT to work on, and get a stable career that pays benefits, retirement, and wont have you looking for a new job every 4 months.

QFT :lol Atm I am more than happy that I´ve recently been able to turn down a movie job offer ...

 

[Jediwannabe]

As a producer you should know that 10 to 12 hour shoot days mean quite a few hours more for a few departments, such as makeup, costume and art department.

No, my entire crew is in and out in 10 to 12 hours. That is not just my personal set time. Clearly, I would be aware of it taking a little more time for certain departments to get in and out and my production days account for the whole crew to be in and out in 10 to 12 hours.

As far as your comment about it not being standard I can say that I produce all over the world and I've yet to see a country that wouldn't give me a 10 hour day at minimum if not longer.

 

[Warpaint]

Artists are looked at as "dime a dozen."

Does that sentiment extend to concept artists?

 

[gobler]

Unions!! What a laugh. No prop/make up shop I worked at was union. In fact the shop owners have been fighting this subject for decades. I will say some shops are better then others. ADI for instance was one of the best ran shops I ever worked at. We never worked more then a 9 hour day with an hour lunch. That is because Allic & Tom came from Stan Winstons; who had a very well ran shop. On the other end I would say 85% of the shop work you on average a 14 hour day. I was a mould supervisor of one shop (no names) and it was common to put in 16 hour days. Hell, there were times when I slept at the shop cause it gave me an extra hour of sleep instead of driving home and back.

I still do on set non-union make up work but on set is a different kind of stress and energy.


Sent from somewhere in space & time...

 

[Jediwannabe]

What I like about the unions is that they do give structure and a standard (rates and rules) for production to follow. Without guidelines and set penalties, people get abused. I think there should always be a choice between choosing union or non-union...and that is not always the case. I will say that it is very unlikely that you would see a 16 hour day in a union shop and if you had to do a long day you would be well compensated for it.

 

[gobler]

What I like about the unions is that they do give structure and a standard (rates and rules) for production to follow. Without guidelines and set penalties, people get abused. I think there should always be a choice between choosing union or non-union...and that is not always the case. I will say that it is very unlikely that you would see a 16 hour day in a union shop and if you had to do a long day you would be well compensated for it.

Oh don't get me wrong, I tried to get into local 706 (Make up & Hair Dressers union) but when I had completed my requirements (after nearly 5 years) they changed the rules so all that time was for naught. :facepalm It pissed me off so much I never tried to re-submit. Now that I am seasoned and not a young hot head I would love to enter 706. But I fear that ship has sailed.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

No, my entire crew is in and out in 10 to 12 hours. That is not just my personal set time. Clearly, I would be aware of it taking a little more time for certain departments to get in and out and my production days account for the whole crew to be in and out in 10 to 12 hours.

Well, then more props to you *sic*

As far as your comment about it not being standard I can say that I produce all over the world and I've yet to see a country that wouldn't give me a 10 hour day at minimum if not longer.

The department with the strongest influence over here in Germany is the lighting department. If they don´t force you to stick to the "11 hours of rest" rule by literally flipping the switch, then they will after some time with the additional cost that is generated if they go into overtime. Granted, we do have directors who are very professional and shoot 4 to 5 minutes in a nine hour day, but there are others who think that they are Kubrick and drive everybody insane. Granted, the lighting crew sometimes expect overtime due to the additional money, but I guess that every producer hates it when he has to hand out additional money.
I have seen international productions that were shut down because of violations of labour laws, with hefty fines for the production company.
But again, as I wrote before, it may be common practice to work and actually calculate with long work days, but it is not a set standard. Producers want to establish it as a "standard", but a lot of the guilds are fighting this.

 

[TylerHam]

Does that sentiment extend to concept artists?

It applies to everyone... Become a good concept artist - Rock your job - start earning a high day rate - become so good you cost so much that they wont hire you anymore, when they can hire a student to "copy your style" for 1/4 the price....

The industry is a mess.

 

[Warpaint]

Good to know, thank you. :thumbsup

 

[MrPinski]

I have done 3 movies in their Art Dept making props. I had my first one last year and two this year. My first two were done for free (they had me volunteer for my first shoot to "test me out" with no pay and the second one I made a few props from home and I only got paid in a credit and got my materials covered) My 3rd movie was offered to me at $1000 flat but I had to go on location in Seattle WA and I live in Los Angeles CA (they offered me a ride on the art truck) and the shoot was a month long and I would have to "crash" in the PD's hotel room and my food would not be covered, though I would get food while I was on set (about 2 meals a day for 2 weeks while working 12 hour days). Needless to say, I turned that down.

I just got offered PropMaster credit on a new film due to shoot in a week, they offer a whopping $50/day and I would have to work 12 hours/day for 6 days. I make more money selling castings of my passion projects on here than I do for studios...

If you want a career in props, open your own shop, take on commissions and get hired by studios.

I plan to get there one day.

Gotta keep practicing!

Good luck to you though.

 

[NoahJLopez]

The above comment is very good advice imo.

Until I became ill I used to work in TV making props etc on such shows as Classic Who, Max Headroom, Spitting Image, Harry Potter etc, and It's now a very crowded industry to get into.

Getting a wide range of skills and good contacts is a must imo. Sending your CV to as many effects firms as you can get your hands on helps, as does making contacts in other ways such as maybe trying out as a runner for some production/effects companies.

If you want it badly enough you'll get there in the end.

Good luck.

I am looking at universities, but since you were in the industry, What degree do you recommend to get into the industry.
-Thanks Noah

 

[NoahJLopez]

I would like to get into the industry. What degrees should I go for and at what colleges do you recommend.