How did LOST get so lost?

Those shows were episodic, but they did end up telling a specific story each season. The story didn't necessarily develop with every single episode (certainly not in the early seasons), but each season had its own contained arc that began and resolved pretty neatly. This is even more the case with The Wire. You could watch any single season and the story would make sense and feel as if it concluded naturally (if not always satisfactorily in the sense of "Yay! Good guys win!").

I do agree that the problem with LOST and other similar shows is that they often bill themselves as "grand mystery" shows. If the story was just the aimless day-to-day drama of surviving on the island, that'd be fine, but you throw in enough spooky, weird, "this really needs an explanation as to WTF is going on here" elements, and you start creating a "mystery." The show clearly exploited that mystery -- although maybe the writers weren't as enthusiastic about it as the producers or the network -- and when those mysteries went unresolved or were unsatisfactorily answered via "Uh.....magic!" or whathaveyou, it's natural that the fans who were driven by the mysteries more than the characters would feel let down.

I also tend to think that it's WAY too difficult to take a seven-season show (or however many) and tell a single, completely coherent, fully satisfying story on TV. What if an actor dies? What if someone says "my contract's up and I want to leave the show"? What if any number of things happens? How will you resolve the plot? How do you juggle enough balls at once to keep a multi-season show both interesting and internally consistent, without seeming canned?

I'm not sure it's possible, actually. Certainly I've not seen any examples of shows that managed to do this flawlessly. The closest I can think of is Babylon 5, but that show's characters were a bit thinner and less realistic than those in shows like the new BSG and such. That said, plot-wise, B5 was rock-solid, to the point where a single writer (namely the creator of the series itself) wrote the bulk of the episodes, and had plotted the thing out in exquisite detail to the point where he built in "trapdoors" for each character so that any time an actor might've wanted to bail from the show, he had a way to handle it. The big problem was that it pre-dates a lot of the more realistic approach to characters that you started seeing around the late 90s. It was very much a product of the early 90s and before. All well and good, but it's tough to stack up those characters against, say, Bill Adama.

Anyway, this is -- again -- why I say the best way to do it is contained story arcs for each season, with each new season standing on the shoulders of the last one, but NOT leaving you hanging for the subsequent season.
 
Greatest show of all time, even if it had its problems. Never felt a show evoke those kinds of emotions from me.
 
I loved it, despite the flaws, loved, loved, loved and oh yeah...loved it. Did the story go the way I had hoped? or ended the way I wanted? No, but I really enjoyed the action, the stories, the characters. I became emotionaly invested in that show, I really cared what happened to the characters. To me, that makes a great show, regardless of whether or not I knew exactly WTH was going on:).
 
Actually they did know where they were going. Why are you judging something you haven't seen in its entirety? I saw every episode and thought it was terrific. Superior television.

Why do I have to watch all the seasons of a show to decide it wasn't doing it for me? My wife and I watched I believe a total of four seasons of that show, suffered though writers strikes, cast members getting fired, new ones coming in and suddenly getting long term contracts. That right there tells me they were making it up as thy went.
You loved it, others loved it. Good for you. I invested a lot of time, emotion, and thought into a show that, to me, squandered a wonderful opportunity. Had they just designed a two or three year story arc ahead of time they might have absolutely nailed it. As it is, the friends I had that stuck with it I were disappointed by the ending.
I have no desire to finish watching the show. None.
Sorry I didn't love it the way you did, but my opinion is just as valid as yours.
 
Sorry I didn't love it the way you did, but my opinion is just as valid as yours.

:lol I totally agree with there being a variety of valid opinions, it's just funny to me because over at Lostpedia forums the argument between the lovers and haters is so prevalent and a couple times there were a few pages of back and forth over what makes an argument valid.

Lost is so polarizing for some reason!

I even create a banner at one point in honor of it.

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Threads often get locked when it gets bad.

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Back to the discussion - I do actually think there was a general plan - the white and black 'players' that Locke talks about in season 1 and the game he explains to Walt is one of the biggest metaphors for the constant two sides going "The Others" - "The Good Guys" ...and the mentioning of rules... and eventually the game Jacob and his brother play with the candidates, both senet and the one that required a loophole.

So even if they didn't have the mythology worked out exactly, they did obviously want there to be something of a game and two sides that were going to be playing the survivors like pawns.

It was probably just tough not knowing how many seasons they had to stretch the story out for... best thing they ever did was get an end date for 6 seasons. Otherwise we may have never even had an Ending.

An imperfect ending is better than no ending.
 
The main thing I didn't like about Lost was something that occurred all the time and made no sense once you thought about it. Nobody ever questioned anything.

It's been a while so I can't think of any actual examples, but I'll make one up-

Sawyer sees something that is weird or knows something that is important. Another character knows Sawyer saw it/knows it and then says "What! What is it?"

Sawyer says "It was nothing, Nickname" even though it totally obviously WAS something, and important.

The other person drops it or it goes to a break and they never speak of it again.

In real life, the person would be constantly asking until he spilled it. I mean, it's not like there's anything else to do and they're stuck on Mystery Island. Would YOU just like it drop? I'd be like, "Sawyer? Sawyer? Sawyer? Sawyer? Sawyer? James? James? James? James? Sawyer? Sawyer? Sawyer? Lois? Lois? Mum? Mum? Lois?" until they told me.

...and it happened ALL the time.
 
Lost got so Lost because, it was never found.

Ah the dangers of Episodic television! :lol
 
Who can blame the writers. They jumped the shark, nuked the fridge too early and there was no going back. People were watching awhile in big numbers, then some decided WTH is this? and ratings dipped. Then the writers announced when the show was ending. People were intriqued and returned to watch. Ratings went up...and bam...predictable, unfullfilling ending. BIG paycheck to writers. I'd say...they were pretty smart.
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I love watching people narrowly condemn viewer opinion to overly-simplistic binaries and expound on a show they've never watched. I'm talkin' about you, Solo.


In general, I think people who just enjoy watching well-written characters do interesting things in interesting situations are better suited towards long-form network TV and all its vagaries, potential strikes, casting changes, etc., etc.

People who like a neatly-handled plot that doesn't give cop-out answers like "Well...it's a mystery" at the end or whathaveyou, generally end up screwed by shows like LOST.

This is the root of the idea I object to. That somehow a show (or an audiences appreciation of a show) can be reduced to either being a celebration of all that is episodic, or entirely based on its structural handling of the overarching story.

They both inform each other, and while debate on intent may be raging still, I think anyone with the interpretive capacity of more than a kindergartener should be able to derive a conclusion beyond "Well ... it's a mystery."

Lost is one of the most thematically rich television experiences one could ever hope for. Great myths don't offer answers. They celebrate and harmonize with life's questions.

If you want to continue using Lost threads as a springboard for your theorizing on the varying merits of the television medium, fine. But there must be a way to do it without incurring your presuppositions about the show you've never watched, and more importantly, it's viewers.
 
I looked on Amazon to see how much trade-in value I could get for my Lost S1 box set.. $2.25.

That's even less than my MacGyver box set ($2.50)..

should tell ya something right there. :lol
 
Oh, and I enjoyed Lost up to the 3rd season, then I started not caring if I missed a few episodes here and there, and ultimately abandoned the effort altogether by the end of the season.

I'd get the DVDs and watch 'em all again, back-to-back, but I don't want to get my hopes up and then dashed.
 
My girlfriend absolutely adored Lost. She made me watch the first two seasons and then we started to watch season 3 onwards together.

Personally, I really enjoyed it. Yes, the ending could have been better, yes bits have been left unexplained and yes, there are plot holes. However, on a whole I can't really think of another series that came in and so quickly made me care about a cast of characters so much.

In my opinion, 'Through The Looking Glass' is one of the best episodes of any TV drama ever produced. It makes my girlfriend cry every single time and I must admit, it gives me a pang of sorrow to see the events unfold. Not many TV programs can do that to me, especially on repeated viewings.

And that is my opinion :)
 
I love watching people narrowly condemn viewer opinion to overly-simplistic binaries and expound on a show they've never watched. I'm talkin' about you, Solo.

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Ok, more like 10:45-ish by my watch, but hey, close enough. :)


This is the root of the idea I object to. That somehow a show (or an audiences appreciation of a show) can be reduced to either being a celebration of all that is episodic, or entirely based on its structural handling of the overarching story.

They both inform each other, and while debate on intent may be raging still, I think anyone with the interpretive capacity of more than a kindergartener should be able to derive a conclusion beyond "Well ... it's a mystery."

I don't believe I actually drew such a distinction, but maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're getting at. In my experience, while there isn't a strict dividing line where a viewer is on one side or the other, I think that viewers tend to be drawn more towards just enjoying characters do their thing, regardless of where the show is going, or they focus more on the plot elements and "the big mystery."

Some folks just don't seem to sweat the plot issues, and are happy just to go through an overall experience with well-written characters, without really worrying a ton about where it's all going and whether it will be neatly wrapped up. Based on what you've written about your enjoyment of various TV shows on this forum, I'm guessing you're one of these folks.

Other folks get heavily invested in the plot, the mythology, finding out the "answers" to the shows "mysteries," etc. It is these people who end up seriously disappointed by show endings that fail to wrap up such mysteries, or who get frustrated mid-show and quit before it ends. These are the same people who often raise the complaint "The writers don't know where they're going with this show." Maybe you disagree with those people, maybe you don't fully understand them, but news flash: they exist.

Look, Nicky, I gather that you're a writer. As such, you probably view this stuff from the perspective of a writer rather than an average audience member. Maybe this insulates you from marketing, or you just disregard the marketing of shows as mere puffery. I honestly don't know. But shows DO push the "where is this all going" approach heavily. I find that this is frequently emphasized in the marketing of a show, such as the advertisements about this week's episode or the "Next time on [show]" bits that end up being run over the credits.

These marketing moments set up audience expectations. Maybe you're immune to them, but not everyone is. If the audience expects a tidy resolution, however, it should come as no surprise that a vague answer fails to satisfy them. Like I said, maybe you can't relate, but it's a real phenomenon.


Lost is one of the most thematically rich television experiences one could ever hope for. Great myths don't offer answers. They celebrate and harmonize with life's questions.
Great myths also don't involve advertising. See above.

If you want to continue using Lost threads as a springboard for your theorizing on the varying merits of the television medium, fine. But there must be a way to do it without incurring your presuppositions about the show you've never watched, and more importantly, it's viewers.

Well, for starters, there's a very simple way for you to avoid incurring my presuppositions about a show I haven't watched -- that'd be to just skip over my posts if they irk you that much. I suppose I can feel free to do the same if I find your posts about the artistic merit of these shows and your implications that anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you is some sort of low-grade moron to be offensive and generally incorrect.

But, I'll tell ya, in spite of those undertones (which admittedly are not there all the time), I actually still appreciate your posts because they're usually well written, interesting to read, and seem to be well thought out, even if I may disagree with the points you ultimately make. I guess you're a pretty good writer after all. :)

But, as I've said, my observations are more about how people have reacted to the ending of the show -- especially on a board where people discuss this show and several others which have had similarly unsatisfying (for some people, anyway) endings. I think it's perfectly valid to raise such issues in a thread like this. Not to mention the fact that, hey, it's an internet forum and it's not like ANY of the threads we see here ever stay 100% on topic.

So, yeah, I've got my theories about what makes for good TV and good storytelling, and they apparently differ from yours. I doubt either one of us is going to stop posting about it any time soon. C'est la intarwebz.
 
Why do I have to watch all the seasons of a show to decide it wasn't doing it for me? Sorry I didn't love it the way you did, but my opinion is just as valid as yours.

No, your opinion is NOT as valid as mine. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion. But your opinion is only partially informed. LOST changed its cast... evolved its story telling... and had a tremendous pay off and an emotionally charged resolution. And you didn't see that part of the series.

Listen to only half of ABBEY ROAD. Watch only half of Alfred Hitchcock's PSYCHO. You can have an opinion of both those works... but it wouldn't be as VALID an opinion... not as well informed... as someone who watched the whole thing.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Based on what you've written about your enjoyment of various TV shows on this forum, I'm guessing you're one of these folks.

I don't watch many TV shows, so it's hard for me to agree that I'm any particular kind of viewer, but it is the distinction that you re-iterate in your most recent post that I still have trouble digesting. I don't think that a viewer's predilection toward enjoying the journey of the characters is at all preventive of their being invested in the primary mystery or outcome of the plot-at-large. On the contrary, I think they feed each other so necessarily that you can't help with some measure of concern on both fronts.

In not so many words: I don't think that primarily-caring-for-the-characters equals satisfaction with the finale, nor that primarily-caring-for-the-mystery equals dissatisfaction with the finale. It can't be -- and isn't -- as simple as that.


These marketing moments set up audience expectations. Maybe you're immune to them, but not everyone is. If the audience expects a tidy resolution, however, it should come as no surprise that a vague answer fails to satisfy them. Like I said, maybe you can't relate, but it's a real phenomenon.

I'm in no way trying to disprove the existance of the legions of the dissatisfied ... I'm surrounded by it.

On the point of marketing, while I agree it has the potential to be an instrumental player in the expectation and perception of the work itself, I'd still like to believe that the work can be objectively allowed to stand on it's own merits. Perhaps this will take only the passage of time, as the show will continue to gain audiences that experience it on video.

The real shame, as I see it, is that the market is currently organized as such that the work itself is created independantly, from a different mind than that of the advertising. Yet they are to be percieved as a single entity. I can totally understand that, even if I don't fully appreciate the level to which the advertising for Lost had an adverse effect on the perception of the show's conclusion. (I was fairly able to avoid it in my own viewing of the show.)

Overall, thought, I find the focus on conclusion unbefitting of the show itself. The finale enriched the experience that was watching the show, taking the journey. The way some people talk about it (perhaps because of advertising, as you said) focused totally on the ends at the expense of the means -- which I take to be the real meat of the show, all of which culminated in the events of the finale.

I suppose I can feel free to do the same if I find your posts about the artistic merit of these shows and your implications that anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you is some sort of low-grade moron to be offensive and generally incorrect.

Don't take me the wrong way, I certainly wasn't trying to insult any diverging interpretation. I can see how it could come off that way. I was just mentioning that in my argument in regard to the above topic, that I don't think we can so easily catagorize those that were dissatisfied as "those-who-cared-about-the-outcome."

I've read a slew of negative responses to the finale that I thought were well-formed and totally legitimate. I never want to be that guy who calls you stupid when you dissagree.

So, yeah, I've got my theories about what makes for good TV and good storytelling, and they apparently differ from yours. I doubt either one of us is going to stop posting about it any time soon. C'est la intarwebz

You never know. Lack of civility elsewhere has often dissuaded me from posting in topics I'd otherwise sink my teeth into. These days I have to keep the energies for the items that really matter to me. Lost just so happens to tickle that spot.

And for the record, I don't think my own feelings on the mechanics of creating a show would be so different from what you presented here. It just offers me no advantage when discussing the effectiveness of a show already created.
 
To me it always seems that the type of people who read a book just to get to the ending are typically the people who didnt enjoy LOST. If youre the type who enjoys a story for where it may take you, then you would probably like the show.
 
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