HALO PISTOL update Sept. 21

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by Tyre, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. Tyre

    Tyre New Member

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    Hey guys. Sorry for the delays, we're really trying to get these out to you as soon as possible but there is a bit of an issue.

    I want to get your opinions on something i'm really having a hard time with: The cast that I have gotten back from our cast-man are, in my opinion, very low quality. Admittedly, I don't have a clue what a high quality/ low quality casting looks like, but I think for $125 bucks i'd be really disappointed if these showed up at my door:

    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/beadbe8c.jpg
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/de4a316c.jpg
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/e607fa45.jpg
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/40cc9ce3.jpg
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/0aa1731e.jpg
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/daf63dd9.jpg
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/e48c5294.jpg
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/tyrenlds/058cd713.jpg

    Is this the kind of resin cast you all are used to dealing with? Is this amount of clean-up a normal thing?

    Geoff, our caster, has had the originals for weeks now. Numerous things have gone wrong on his end; molds broke, 'things' have come up, and now there seems to be a broken finger involved. So, after all of this a box finally shows up with a dozen M6C's that I don't think I can sell. I'm very hesistant to purchase more resin to finish the other pistols now because of the quality i've seen thus far.

    Geoff has offered to clean these up, but I don't know how nice they will come out. Maybe he can chime in if I am way off base here. At any rate, please let me know how you all feel about these pistols. If clean-up was an expected thing than these can start shipping soon. But if you won't be happy with this kind of quality we'll have to figure something out. Don't know if i'll have to print all the orders from the SLA machine or find a better caster, but I really want to give you'all something you'd be happy with.
     
  2. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't expecting that amount of cleanup.

    I think that's a really bad mold in my opinion. I would request those masters back ASAP. All of those excuses sound very suspcious on his end.

    Were the M6D's just as bad?

    Berry
     
  3. Tyre

    Tyre New Member

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    I havn't seen the M6D's yet, but i've been told the mold is done for them. Anybody else with cast experince care to chime in?

    I have met Geoff and he seems like a stand-up guy. I am sure if you'all feel it's needed that he would clean these up and make them nice. Just need to know where everybody stands on this issue.

     
  4. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    How is the resin quality?

    Are there many air bubbles?

    I don't know how he cast them or what kind of casting material he used, but in my experience (limited nonetheless) a simple 2 part mold should've worked for this. Then all the buyer would have to worry about is sanding down the mold line and trimming the sprue part. And maybe fill in a couple of pin holes. This is typical.

    The amount of work on these goes way beyond that.
     
  5. Matsuo

    Matsuo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Tyre, Sorry I haven't been following this project as well as perhaps I should have. ;)
    Do you have pix of the master with which to compare?

    As a caster, I'd say that it looks like there could have been a little more care put into the mold. Beyond that I'd prefer not to talk trash about other artisans here. I'm shure there are a few guys here who have no reservations in that regard though..:lol



    PM me if you like.

    Matt
     
  6. Buddydog

    Buddydog New Member

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    I am headed Tylers way today, I offered to pick them up and do some filling and filing to clean up the sprues on the back and remove the one in trigger area. Admittedly, the trigger area sprue was much larger than needed, but I felt it was better to assure the handguard recieved all the required resin.

    I haven't heard from Tyler as of yet, but I think I can honestly say that these are very good casts as far as resin pieces go, I simply haven't been able to hold them to clean them up very well. Mixing and pouring is one thing, but I do not currently posses two opposable thumbs. It's up to you guys, obviously, but I think I'd be more satisfied if they were cleaned up too. No major air bubbles, short of the back end of a couple that I quickly tried to fill.

    The question really is, how quickly do you want these versus how much sanding do you want done before you recieve them? I assure you there is nothing that you wouldn't be able clean up if you have assembled a resin or styrene model kit in the past. The only thing I didn't get a chance to do is to drill out the barrel, which I know is definitely my responsibilty, not anyone elses. So for sure I at least need to get that taken care of.

    If it matters, pictures of the wound and mold to follow...

    Geoff
     
  7. Tyre

    Tyre New Member

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    Well, the quality is pretty good over most the surface of the pistol. There are some air bubble issues on the top of the slide but not in many other places. Other than the sprue part I think a bit of putty and a quick go over with a razor blade would really make a difference. Mold lines are almost non-existant.

    The pictures may exagerate the defects a bit too. I've got a couple e-mails from people saying that this is fine and they would like the pistols as they are - is this the consensus?


     
  8. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Well I can't speak for the people who ordered those HALO 2 guns, as I ordered the M6D, just looking at those pictures makes me worried for those guns.

    I have no problem doing my own sanding, drilling, etc to make these look good, I just thought I would do less of it.

    Berry
     
  9. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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  10. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    id be kinda peeved myself.

    im not the greatest caster in the world, but that amount of cleanup is pretty bad. dunno if its the resin or if its the caster, no idea.

    if i gotta wait longer, thats fine. if theres the option of just those pistols or ones that look just as bad, id appreciate a refund.

    if you can find a new caster or get the issues fixed with these molds, im still in for my set. honestly though, from the resin kits i have gotten in the past, they have almost a mirror sheen smoothness to them, and they all had minimal cleanup.

    chris
     
  11. Tyre

    Tyre New Member

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    Ok, awesome. Looks like Geoff is coming by today to pick-up the pistols and give them some TLC. thanks man, really appreiciated.

    Ok, now that we have this worked out i'll order more material. I'll talk to Geoff and find out how long this will take him to do, and from there i'll get you'all a shipping date. Thanks for hanging in there everybody.
     
  12. Jimbo890

    Jimbo890 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a lot of experience in resin casting, but is the original a CNC '3D-stereo lithography' generated model? Some of the 'lines' on the molds make me think that was the source. IMHO, the source model should have been cleaned up more before sending it to the silicone.
     
  13. SurferGeek

    SurferGeek Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The pistol was done on a rapid prototype system (Stereolithography) from 3D drawings. Here's the prototype:

    [​IMG]

    Here's the casting:

    [​IMG]


    Unfortunately I've never seen a good casting of a rapid prototype. The surface will usually have very distinct "stair-step" lines or at the very least have a "sandstone" texture to the surface... Both of which will transfer to the casting making clean up a bear and achieving a smooth surface for paint is almost impossible without destroying the details.
     
  14. Bowelrock

    Bowelrock Sr Member

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    Why wasn't the master cleand up and primerd before molding? The master should have never been molded in that condition.. IT should have been cleand up before molding. I just don't understand.
     
  15. Jedi Lawja

    Jedi Lawja Well-Known Member

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    Iee. That's AWEFUL. No way you can blame the masters for that mess, it looks perfect.

    IMO, $100+ for a medium sized one-pull piece is high.

    Jay
     
  16. mez7

    mez7 Sr Member

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    yup should have definatly cleaned up before making the mold,

    seems like maybe a few of the lines on the resin peices are a bit softer than the original as well, dont know if thats maybe because of the silicone used to mold or what?
     
  17. Jedidentist

    Jedidentist Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind a little cleanup, but the master definately should have been smoothed up some. I understand that messing with some of the more detailed areas would not have been advised, but the broader areas like the barrel could have been done. As for the price, that's not much of a concern to me as I understand how much work you've done simply from the design and prototype end. Originally, I was expecting a fully machined piece that wasn't going to be a casting...then I found out that it was going to be cast, however it was going to be cleaned up and painted...now we're talking about getting none of the above. It is tough to try to figure out all of these issues when starting a project, but when people are paying $100s for it, then people are going to come down harder. I'm not in a super hurry for these, but I do want them for mid-October...and definately before that if I have to fix it up and paint it. If you guys can clean them up and make them look VERY good, then do it and ship them...I can paint. However, if it's going to turn into a quick fix, and quick paint job, then don't waste our time. I was expecting a little better quality for $125.

    Derek
     
  18. DuneMuadDib

    DuneMuadDib Sr Member

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    I'll echo the statements on caring for the master. The master should have been cleaned up completely first.

    Those castings aren't great. The worst casting I've ever handled was better than that. I have seen personally that if you do it right you can cast a piece bubble-free that only requires a light sanding to clean up the seam.

    Those could be done much better. I'll wait a while longer to see them done right.
     
  19. Jedidentist

    Jedidentist Well-Known Member

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    After looking at them some more, I don't think they're that bad. It would be nice to see what they look like with the sprue(s) removed, and at least some minor cleanup with the barrel drilled out. That might make everything look completely different...although I still don't like that grooved barrel.

    Derek
     
  20. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Aren't parts of the gun supposed to get an almost chrome finish? If the mold was created with a master straight off the RP it's definately going to have the "sugar cube" texture on almost every surface. A real pain to clean up and paint.

    Just my 2cents on the subject.
     
  21. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    I only ordered the M6D, but if that is the same quality, I will be fairly dissapointed.

    It was my impression that the prototype would be cleaned up in a "ready to paint" condition prior to molding. It's easier to fix one gun than 20. Why wasn't this done?

    To tell you the truth, I thought for $125 this would be in "ready to paint" condition (I was going to alcad chrome it). Pending pictures of the M6D, will we have an option to get a refund?

    I have zero time to clean up the cast, so it would be tossed into the "to do" pile of props (meaning I'll never get to them).... the issue I see with having the cast cleaned up is detail will be lost, or the "clean up" wont be to the 3D model specs.

    my 2 cents
     
  22. TK570

    TK570 Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I for one am quite disapointed. I agree with the general feelings here that the master should have been primed and cleaned to the point of a smooth and proper surface prior to molding. That kind of texture is murder on a mold and will result in very limited life on the casting process not to mention the pain in the * it will be for all who receive a casting and then have to trim, fill, prime, sand, and prime again just to get to good starting point.

    No offense toward the caster personally but this should most certainly have been aproached differently.

    I also would like to know what options there are for refund or the possibility of a better planned run.

    Lonnie
    Tk570
     
  23. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo, my thoughts exactly.

    Yes, I can wait just a little longer on these... but if the quality doesn't improve like the others have said, then I too want a refund. I mean... I would love to have the gun... but in "ready to paint" condition.

    I also agree the master should've been cleaned up before molding it.
     
  24. TK648

    TK648 Sr Member

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    I also agree with the the above statment, I would never have time to clean it up to paint it
    and the orginal master should have been cleaned up before the mold was made.

    This picture disturbes me a little showing the seam line that will run around the pistol
    Here's the casting:

    [​IMG]

    making the prototype as a solid cast is a good idea if only one was going to be made
    but from a molding stand point the prototype pistol for molding should have been made in
    two parts. seperated at the slide joint. see pic below

    [attachmentid=4074]

    Yes two molds would have to be made, the upper slide which would be a open face
    mold, poured from the bottom side of the slide,
    this would also allow for a better cast in the barrel so it would not have to be drilled out.

    The pistol grip side would have to be a two sided mold but could be poured from the
    top where the slide would attach. now some of the pics look like the resin is foamy
    which is caused by the humidity in the air affecting the resin.

    So here is my two cents

    1.The orginal prototype should be made in two or more parts to make molding
    a bit easier, (as described above)
    2. The orginal prototype needs to be cleaned up and made smooth before molding.

    3. Since all the measurements are in cad format
    maybe laser cut acrlyic should be used to make the prototype pistol pieces
    for molding this would give the pistol more of a finished machined factory made look.

    I say this only because I have seen how nice the orginal bat garpple and cast pieces
    turned out. I must also say that I am not dissing Trye's work with his rapid prototype
    machine, the stair step lines in the orginal are a small set back that need to be cleaned up
    with out changing the orginal before the mold is made
    or another method to make the parts can be used.


    Since I have money involved in this,
    I can find time to make the molds I have materials on hand, Trye contact me by email should you want me to help

    However I have no paitence for cleaning up the prototype.

    But with the castings looking the way they do now, I would not want them

    But I am sure that we can work together on finding a way to over come
    these small setbacks.


    Andrew
     
  25. TK648

    TK648 Sr Member

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    I did some quick photoshop to show possible break points
    for parts for the pistols.
    the break points are the black lines in the picture below.

    These are just some guick Ideas I had please take no offence

    I know most of you would rather have a solid hand guard on the bot pistols
    but by making this a seperate part it solves a mold making issue

    with the upper slide removed and the hand guard off, one solid mold
    could be made of the pistol grip and one for the upper slide
    and the resin pour can be done from the top area
    where the upper slide would be and the upper slide would be poured from the
    side where the grip would attach...no seams

    but the hand guard would be a two piece mold

    Just an Idea

    Andrew

    [attachmentid=4077]
     
  26. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    This is an excellent idea.

    I'm sure the original CAD file could be altered and new masters made.

    Berry
     
  27. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Bump for Tyler
     
  28. Jedidentist

    Jedidentist Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, for him, I see that he has a box of castings which all probably cost a decent amount in resin, as well as the silicone molding material. I could certainly see his reservations about trashing it all and going with someone else. However, as many will argue as soon as I post this, this isn't our fault, and certainly is something that needs to be considered when doing a higher end run of a project. I think probably the best bet is to clean the master, have TK648 cast new ones, and sell the others on E-bay and the Junkyard as fixer uppers. With Halloween coming up, it should be easy to recoup the cost of the resin, and many people would jump on a fixer upper project at a lower cost than our initial investment.

    Derek
     
  29. Noeland

    Noeland Sr Member

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    Speaking as someone new to this resin and silicone molding stuff (I've made one mold, it was a complete disaster) it seems to me the master should have at the very least, had those lines along the body sanded off before molding.

    I am going to get one of the smooth-on kits this weekend, and give the molding bit a try again. I have a pulse rifle grenade launcher grip I want to make a copy of for a seperate project. (I don't really expect to get a great copy)

    I certainly agree that the materials for casting are expensive. I would suppose buying them in bulk would lower the expense quite a bit though.

    Perhaps these "off" castings can be sold for a discount? Just throwing out suggestions.

    Noeland-----------------------------
     
  30. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Bump for updates
     
  31. Gary Weaver II

    Gary Weaver II Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Tyre,

    If you need any assistance in getting these redone or perhaps want to start looking at a V.2 please e-mail or PM. I'd be happy to help you out. I have a vac chamber, pressure pot and intergral color casting available here. May even be able to help with the cleanup on your master.

    Its a great looking concept and awesome prototype. It would suck to see if fail this close to the finish line...

    -Gary
     
  32. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Bump.... we need another update.

    It's been two months now since a lot of us have paid.

    Trying to be patient is hard...
     
  33. Jedidentist

    Jedidentist Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I was one of the super patient ones, and usually to my detriment, one who always gives the benefit of a doubt. However, you post a thread for comments, and then leave it for dead. Not really good business practices.

    Derek
     
  34. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Yah, not good at all.

    I know people can be "busy" and I know these were going to be "cleaned up", but you should at least update with pictures, and a general "What's up" at least every couple of days.

    It's getting to the point where I might just want a refund so I can get other things. But I don't want to miss out on these guns if they come out right.

    Berry
     
  35. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    el bumparoonie

    some news (of any kind) would be good :)

    chris
     
  36. StringOnFinger

    StringOnFinger New Member

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    So can I assume refunds will be given since there have been no replies to this thread?

    Sean
     
  37. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Who knows at this point?

    Tyler has been unresponsive and so has the guy that's doing the molds "cleanup".

    If I don't hear something by this coming Monday, I'll want a refund.

    Berry
     
  38. Jedidentist

    Jedidentist Well-Known Member

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    Well, I sent Tyler an "I'm not real happy about the lack of communication" e-mail on friday, and still haven't heard anything.

    Delays out of your control=okay and understandable
    Unforeseen problems=okay and understandable
    Delays with no communication=BAD BUSINESS...

    I'll be patient, patient, and more patient, but dang I hate a lack of communication.

    Derek
     
  39. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    going on almost a month with no form of update....


    ive sent emails and ive sent pm's, and so far i havent heard squat either.

    what i am failing to see is how apparently one set gets made and sent out to a customer, and the rest of us are left hanging in the void?

    im standing by my offer in the emails and pm's i sent. if good clean castings can get here by next monday, i am awesome and content. if they cant, i want a refund and ill just pick em up another time. postal money orders preferred, as i dont really want paypal yanking 3% out of my cash for a refund.

    chris
     
  40. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    I have PM'ed this guy too. No answer here as well.

    I'll go with this offer... Next Monday, October 17 to get my guns to me... or I want a refund in full. I could really use this money for something else if these aren't coming anytime soon. Postal money order would be great.. * paypal fees.

    Berry


     
  41. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Bump for update.
     
  42. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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  43. linkproductions

    linkproductions New Member

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    yea thats really f**ked up :angry
    plus on the halo mod forum his selling them for $34
     
  44. TK648

    TK648 Sr Member

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    yea thats really f**ked up
    plus on the halo mod forum his selling them for $34




    Not trying to defend him, this is just a theory

    He may just be trying to get his cash back on the molding materials
    on the first run of guns that were not cleaned up before the molds were made
    so this project is not a total loss.


    TK648
     
  45. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Good theory... and I hope it's true.. him selling the crappy ones to make our better.

    But I'm sick of theories and speculation. We really need a serious update Tyler.
     
  46. Ghost Host

    Ghost Host Sr Member

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    I am very interested in a metal one, if these customer relations problems get ironed out.
     
  47. linkproductions

    linkproductions New Member

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    i one of hes topics didnt he said that BRIARS ARMOR got his guns? i wrote to briar he said that he didnt get them
     
  48. uscmCorps

    uscmCorps New Member

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    I've been watching this thread closely since he first showed 3D wire models way back when. At D*Con, while having dinner with the crew of Richie's Armor one night, I asked about the pistols because I knew Briar would probably want them to go with his awesome new armor. Richie said they never got them. Which is why I asked Tyler earlier in the thread if he had sent them as promised to Richie so that he would receive them in time for the Con. From Tyler's response, I figured at best, he had mailed them and they just didn't get there in time. Sucks to hear that they may never have been sent to begin with. Hope you guys get something in the end... whether that be decent resin or money back. :unsure

    -Alex
     
  49. Jedidentist

    Jedidentist Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we need to start posting in those other forums? If he's trying to ditch his old copies to get his money back, that's cool, but at least he could let us know about it. He could even sell them here for that much (although I'm sure a chunk of us would go for it, and then he'd be out his original cash cow). When will these idiots learn that people can be understanding if they were just honest to begin with?
     
  50. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    If I don't hear something by Monday... I'm thinking of filing a paypal claim.

    Berry
     

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