Halliwax's weird V3 theory

Okay, I want to bump this cause I have a theory...

Mostly, I am obsessed with trying to make sense of all the paint schemes on the ROTJ sabers.

Let's assume as a starting point the V3 is painted the same as the V2 during ANH: flat black booster and grenade, bare metal clamp area, windvane something in the bronze family to match the OB1 hero.

During ESB both appear to be chipped and flaking, we know the V3 has no clamp.

Now for ROTJ, I get confused as to the order of things. We do know the order of production schedule-- Elstree first, which was all the interior stuff (sandstorm, Death Star, Rebel ship, bunker, Jabba's palace, Dagobah, Ewok village). Then they went to Yuma for the Tattooine exteriors/Sail barge stuff. Then to the Redwood forest for the Endor exteriors. Then things ended back at ILM where they did additional blue screen work, and later still, inserts and close ups.

One thing you have to remember-- is that other units would be in prep while the first unit would be in production. Meaning, while they were shooting in London, sets/props/lighting/etc would have all been in the works in Yuma.

One big clue that Brandon dropped awhile back that I think is key to this V3 timeline, is that there were resin Graflex sabers made for the R2 air cannon gag. This makes sense in terms of prep-- assuming Luke would be using the Graflex, they were prepping the gag while filming was starting in the UK.

In the UK, on day one of shooting, the Graflex is swapped for the V2 to avoid the continuity error. If the V2 is literally a last minute addition, it makes sense they'd prep the other shared stunt as well-- so the V3 gets a graflex clamp and edge card.

At this point neither the V2 or V3 has been repainted. The V3 is going to be the bladed stunt, and is also the basis for soft resin stunts as well.

My theory is that resin copies of the V3 are made in the UK, and sent to Yuma. I think the nice big high res one we've seen was painted to match the V3 as it was at that time. There was probably more than one.

In Yuma, they prep one/some of these resin copies for the air cannon gag.

In the UK, the V2 is used as the belt-hanger, and the V3 as the bladed stunt in the throne room duel.

In Yuma, they need a short-bladed stunt. The long blades are used for duels, but looking back to ESB, outside of the duel, short-bladed stunts are used. It's safer, especially when you go swinging it around other people.

At this stage there is no short-bladed stunt to match Luke's "new" saber. If they had been planning to use the Graflex, maybe they still had the one(s) from ESB. Either way, they didn't have one that matched the V2/V3. So based on the resin V3, new metal sabers were made.

We know several were developed based on the eBay bucks, and the one vadermania has. These would have been painted from scratch, which results in them having more coppery neck area cause some prop dude didn't have bronze. One of these is given the short blade and becomes the Yuma.

I think more resin copies were made/painted off the new metal masters, which gives us the resin stunt Yuma for the sail barge leap.

The first unit comes to Yuma and shoots everything. The V2 is there as the belt-hanger, but the V3 isn't needed.

On Endor the V3 is used for one shot, otherwise it's the V2. Paint job is is still iffy on the V-- in fact, AFTER being used in the duel it could be in worse shape-- especially given how aggro Luke gets. This maybe explain the chunkier paint, and possibly even gaffers taped, that we see in the new pic of the V3 on Endor from the archives book.

Production ends and the Yuma is cleaned up and transformed into the HERO for the ISYHCANL and cave-build scenes. The coppery neck of the Yuma is exaggerated even further by given a full coat of paint so the saber looks new and not weathered.

In the post world for museum tours or promotional events, the V3's pcb card is swapped out and the body is repainted to match the colors of the hero leaving it to look like the hot garbage it is today. I have no input on when/why the chrome tape was added.
 
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Okay, I want to bump this cause I have a theory...

Mostly, I am obsessed with trying to make sense of all the paint schemes on the ROTJ sabers.

Let's assume as a starting point the V3 is painted the same as the V2 during ANH: flat black booster and grenade, bare metal clamp area, windvane something in the bronze family to match the OB1 hero.

During ESB both appear to be chipped and flaking, we know the V3 has no clamp.

Now for ROTJ, I get confused as to the order of things. We do know the order of production schedule-- Elstree first, which was all the interior stuff (sandstorm, Death Star, Rebel ship, bunker, Jabba's palace, Dagobah, Ewok village). Then they went to Yuma for the Tattooine exteriors/Sail barge stuff. Then to the Redwood forest for the Endor exteriors. Then things ended back at ILM where they did additional blue screen work, and later still, inserts and close ups.

One thing you have to remember-- is that other units would be in prep while the first unit would be in production. Meaning, while they were shooting in London, sets/props/lighting/etc would have all been in the works in Yuma.

One big clue that Brandon dropped awhile back that I think is key to this V3 timeline, is that there were resin Graflex sabers made for the R2 air cannon gag. This makes sense in terms of prep-- assuming Luke would be using the Graflex, they were prepping the gag while filming was starting in the UK.

In the UK, on day one of shooting, the Graflex is swapped for the V2 to avoid the continuity error. If the V2 is literally a last minute addition, it makes sense they'd prep the other shared stunt as well-- so the V3 gets a graflex clamp and edge card.

At this point neither the V2 or V3 has been repainted. The V3 is going to be the bladed stunt, and is also the basis for soft resin stunts as well.

My theory is that resin copies of the V3 are made in the UK, and sent to Yuma. I think the nice big high res one we've seen was painted to match the V3 as it was at that time. There was probably more than one.

In Yuma, they prep one/some of these resin copies for the air cannon gag.

In the UK, the V2 is used as the belt-hanger, and the V3 as the bladed stunt in the throne room duel.

In Yuma, they need a short-bladed stunt. The long blades are used for duels, but looking back to ESB, outside of the duel, short-bladed stunts are used. It's safer, especially when you go swinging it around other people.

At this stage there is no short-bladed stunt to match Luke's "new" saber. If they had been planning to use the Graflex, maybe they still had the one(s) from ESB. Either way, they didn't have one that matched the V2/V3. So based on the resin V3, new metal sabers were made.

We know several were developed based on the eBay bucks, and the one vadermania has. These would have been painted from scratch, which results in them having more coppery neck area cause some prop dude didn't have bronze. One of these is given the short blade and becomes the Yuma.

I think more resin copies were made/painted off the new metal masters, which gives us the resin stunt Yuma for the sail barge leap.

The first unit comes to Yuma and shoots everything. The V2 is there as the belt-hanger, but the V3 isn't needed.

On Endor the V3 is used for one shot, otherwise it's the V2. Paint job is is still iffy on the V3.

Production ends and the Yuma is cleaned up and transformed into the HERO for the ISYHCANL and cave-build scenes. The coppery neck of the Yuma is exaggerated even further by given a full coat of paint so the saber looks new and not weathered.

In the post world for museum tours or promotional events, the V3's pcb card is swapped out and the body is repainted to match the colors of the hero leaving it to look like the hot garbage it is today. I have no input on when/why the chrome tape was added.

Looks good Seth, I like your thinking. I specifying ordered the 3 rinzler books JUST to log the filming location orders.. I’m tired of asking people “was this filmed first or last?!”

Once I have complied a list of exact filming locations times it may help

I always thought the Yuma was made because the v3 wasn’t on set.. doesn’t make sense since the v2 is there, you would think the v2 and v3 would be together. So I now believe they were both there. And came up with another idea about why the v3 isn’t used on the sail barge..

It gets very confusing.. because to me.. if the v3 is on the sail barge set, why not use that? It must be a pain to remove the blade..

This would explain why they made the Yuma.. we have pictures of the Yuma with long and short blades. Maybe they needed the Yuma to be able to switch out blades quick

This would explain the short emitter hole in the emitter of the Yuma

You wouldn’t need the long rod going down the Yuma because it’s not striking another weapon, Luke is only swinging it in the air

Unlike the v2 and v3 where they have the connecting rod going all the way down the neck
 
I still stick to my theory that there v2 and v3 where painted at the same time.. but didn’t have matching paint jobs..
 
I also agree with ya. The resin v3 stunt was painted to mimic the paint of the v3 as it was at the time of making the resin stunts
 
With my theory the V3 could have been in Yuma, but they needed a short blade ready to go. So it was made ahead of time, and the V3 just wasn't needed.
 
With my theory the V3 could have been in Yuma, but they needed a short blade ready to go. So it was made ahead of time, and the V3 just wasn't needed.

I concur

I only think the Yuma was made for the fact then needed to switch blades between scenes
 
I still stick to my theory that there v2 and v3 where painted at the same time.. but didn’t have matching paint jobs..

Talk more about this. Looking at the V2 and resin V3, I can see both of those as worn versions of what the V2 looked like in ANH.
 
I concur

I only think the Yuma was made for the fact then needed to switch blades between scenes

I wondered too why they couldn't just swap the blade out of the V3-- maybe after it went sailing during the throne room duel it was attached securely enough that it was a pain to remove.

Which might also explain why post ROTJ it has no nipple.
 
Talk more about this. Looking at the V2 and resin V3, I can see both of those as worn versions of what the V2 looked like in ANH.

I imagine it wasn’t just 1 person, just like the pictures we have of the model makers, it’s a dark room full of model pieces scattered all over the table with a few guys assembling

I’m willing to bet 2 different guys painted each one.. this is why the windvane don’t match

The v2 is clearly brown(s) as the v3 is more orange and yellows

The Yuma to me is also orange...

Or being on such a tight budget they ran out of brown spray paint and used what ever they had left

Rush rush rush is their motto
 
I could see that. They didn't have to be painted right next to each other at the same time... but I do think they were both painted during the ANH time.
 
I wondered too why they couldn't just swap the blade out of the V3-- maybe after it went sailing during the throne room duel it was attached securely enough that it was a pain to remove.

Which might also explain why post ROTJ it has no nipple.

Now seeing this blade..


IMG_7448.jpg


Mechicnally it would take too long to switch the blades out

We are dealing with tiny 3mm screws.. and honestly I believe the v3 has the same 3mm screws under the emitter face just like the v2... I don’t think the big 5mm screw was added until later on

It would take to long to switch out the blades. Just like the v2 and v3 use in RoTJ.. kept the blade on the v3 and use the v2 as a belt hanger

Much faster that way

If they had to take the v3 apart every time to switch blades it would take too long and possibly lose the screws

This is why the Yuma was created to make a quick blade change saber

1 set screw with a short rod in the emitter and you can quickly change the blade

The Yuma was also painted to slightly match the v3 with the orange neck and weathered emitter and booster

The triangle d ring.. god only knows where that came from! Lol

This also explains the machined control box with the machined looking graflex lever
 
halliwax, did you get the Rinzler books (they are great!) in hardback or digital? I have them in both, & can not recommend them highly enough.

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I have them downloaded onto my iPad, so I can read them when traveling & don't have internet access. The digital books have video & audio clips as well. Like, for example, you can see David Prowse getting masked for a scene in ANH.
 

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Like SethS theory but the one thing I'd change my thinking on is that a cast Obi-Hero Stunt couldn't have been made into a Yuma, while possible to get much of it down to the Yuma's current dimensions, the raw casts were made sans nipple and the Yuma/Hero has static details like emitter nipple, clamp box, and pommel; three things that wouldn't have been on the raw-casts-turned-motorized-then-not-stunts. I think it's also safe to say that the Yuma, even going with your timeline, was machined specifically off details on the V3 resin stunts and probably used as a rough color guide to match.

The short blade for the Yuma, while not specifically used for fencing, did make contact with some things like stuntmen being knocked off the skiffs, and Luke slicing gag-rigged props. There's a few clips of these moments scattered among the various documentaries made on RotJ over the years. I think the one on the table is either for the ESB Graflex stunts or the one made for the Yuma/Hero. I still can't quite place the length of it for it to match with the Yuma's blade but I believe for all of the Yuma stuff, it never left the Yuma/Hero hilt until the inserts at ILM were filmed.
 
halliwax, did you get the Rinzler books (they are great!) in hardback or digital? I have them in both, & can not recommend them highly enough.

View attachment 970714 View attachment 970713 View attachment 970712

I have them downloaded onto my iPad, so I can read them when traveling & don't have internet access. The digital books have video & audio clips as well. Like, for example, you can see David Prowse getting masked for a scene in ANH.

I bought the physical copies.. thanks to the holiday the mail is all screwed up. Hoping all 3 of them are at my door tomorrow, I don’t know if they are hard back or paper.

Did you download them from the Apple iTunes Store?
 
Like SethS theory but the one thing I'd change my thinking on is that a cast Obi-Hero Stunt couldn't have been made into a Yuma, while possible to get much of it down to the Yuma's current dimensions, the raw casts were made sans nipple and the Yuma/Hero has static details like emitter nipple, clamp box, and pommel; three things that wouldn't have been on the raw-casts-turned-motorized-then-not-stunts. I think it's also safe to say that the Yuma, even going with your timeline, was machined specifically off details on the V3 resin stunts and probably used as a rough color guide to match.

I wasn't implying the Shared stunts were cast. I actually fully agree with what you are saying. They were scratch made. I'm floating the idea that the resin V3 was the source of the measurements, nothing more.

Are those eBay wooden bucks from ANH or ROTJ? I forget. Vadermania's is def ROTJ. So that would fit the theory. I think the control box was always attached later given that it changes 3 times on the same saber body between the Yuma, ISYHCANL, and cave build.

Now seeing this blade..
If they had to take the v3 apart every time to switch blades it would take too long and possibly lose the screws

This is why the Yuma was created to make a quick blade change saber

1 set screw with a short rod in the emitter and you can quickly change the blade

But the thing is, there would be no need to switch blades more than once. The V3 was used with a long blade in the duel. It was wrapped. Once they get to Yuma, why not stick a short blade in and then just let it live there? Given that the duel and sail barge were shot in different places there was no going back and forth.

This is where my "prep" theory comes in. The Yuma was made as part of the prep for that portion of the shoot ahead of first unit arriving. If they were doing any camera tests or stunt blocking they would have needed it ahead of time.
 
I wasn't implying the Shared stunts were cast. I actually fully agree with what you are saying. They were scratch made. I'm floating the idea that the resin V3 was the source of the measurements, nothing more.

My bad, it just kinda read that way.

Are those eBay wooden bucks from ANH or ROTJ? I forget. Vadermania's is def ROTJ. So that would fit the theory. I think the control box was always attached later given that it changes 3 times on the same saber body between the Yuma, ISYHCANL, and cave build.

The wood bucks are definitely ANH sourced. They weren't used any time later, I would wager. Vadermania's is from ANH as all casts come from that time, his is just converted to V3 later on his own accord.
 
I wasn't implying the Shared stunts were cast. I actually fully agree with what you are saying. They were scratch made. I'm floating the idea that the resin V3 was the source of the measurements, nothing more.

Are those eBay wooden bucks from ANH or ROTJ? I forget. Vadermania's is def ROTJ. So that would fit the theory. I think the control box was always attached later given that it changes 3 times on the same saber body between the Yuma, ISYHCANL, and cave build.



But the thing is, there would be no need to switch blades more than once. The V3 was used with a long blade in the duel. It was wrapped. Once they get to Yuma, why not stick a short blade in and then just let it live there? Given that the duel and sail barge were shot in different places there was no going back and forth.

This is where my "prep" theory comes in. The Yuma was made as part of the prep for that portion of the shoot ahead of first unit arriving. If they were doing any camera tests or stunt blocking they would have needed it ahead of time.

Don’t we have pictures of the Yuma with a long and short blade?
 
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