Halliwax's weird V3 theory

[SethS]

ALLEY-- I think I'm leaning in the same direction as you... hadn't noticed that Ewok image before!

Dann-- it was just a theory that the sandstorm scene somehow wore off the paint, but that scene was shot on a stage. The sand would have been talc and silica. They would never blow actual coarse sand at actors or around cameras.

Honestly, paint AND tape makes sense to me. If you put tape over spraypaint on metal and then take it off, you're going to get what the boosters look like now.

halliwax Why would they put gaffer's tape on the stunt in the first place? Cause the pommel was falling off! In that pic where I think it's tape, the pommel is wonky. I think they were just quick-fixing it to stay in place.

 

[vadermania]

Here's my view what happened:
ANH production wrapped, some of the hero lighsaber props were dismantled and the parts returned to the prop houses (i. e. the Obi hero sabers), the majority of the SPFX/stunt sabers went into storage somewhere at Elstree.

ESB production begins: remaining hero Graflexes were redressed, or new hero Graflexes were produced by the prop department, same with the hero Vader sabers. Fight rehearsals started with Peter Diamond, Bob Anderson, Prowse and Hamill. "How nice, we have these old Obi stunt hilts here which you could use for rehearsals plus the Graflex and MPP stunts. And the old Obi stunts are not needed for ESB, so let's try to get rid of the clumsy control boxes (on the V3, I think the box on the V2 stayed on the hilt) and but some back tape on them for comfort and better grip." ESB production wrapped, the old Obi stunt sabers went into storage again.

ROTJ production begins. Sandstorm scene at Elstree. "Hey wait, I lost this Graflex saber in the last movie." Prop guy remembers the old Obi stunt sabers in storage, grabs the V2, rips the tape off, removes the stunt blade (the motor inside was already removed during ESB to reduce weight) which produces an nice "used" paint pattern. Hamill likes it so much, he keeps it at his side as the new hero for the production. Here comes Yuma and the resin V3's imitating the paint pattern on the V2. And suddenly there is this new ROTJ Luke hero/stunt on set from Norank Engineering. They were either asked to produce a "nice and new" looking prop for Luke because at this point of the production it is clear that Luke builds his new saber in the cave (and Vader likes what his son constructed in the ISYHCANL scene) OR they were simply asked to deliver an unpainted new saber to the production, and the prop department cares for the paintjob. And now the fun begins - Hamill keeps his beloved V2 mascot at his side until the imperial officer takes it from him and hands it over to Vader on Endor. In the meantime, the control box on the hero was prepped for the cave scene, and guess what? Why not give the stunt V3 a similar paint/chrome tape job to better match it with the hero? Here we go.

ROTJ production wrapped. V3 and hero returned to production, retire in the archives. Cleaned and partially repainted, they started their exhibition business. And the V2 somehow found it's way into Brandon's collection.

 

[CT1138]

Threads like these are why I love this place.

 

[SethS]

Enhanced Ewok Saber. Very black booster, and cone knob.

Keep in mind the Ewok Village was an internal set, so it was shot at Elstree. Not sure if it was before or after the throne room stuff, but it was certainly before anything shot in Yuma.

 

[Halliwax]

Watch the booster through out RoTJ.. some scenes the booster is fairly black like in the sand storm scene, others there is paint missing.. check out the throne room and bridge scene there is paint missing..

I believe the paint has been removed because of handling and rubbing on the pants of Hamill

I’m not saying the tape wouldn’t pull off the paint, I totally agree and totally can see it happening

But there is no evidence to me that the v2 had gaffers tape on the booster at all

Still don’t believe the v3 has gaffers tape in ANH.. but it certainly looks like at least the clamp had it in RoTJ..

Don’t think the gaffers tape comfort mods were introduced until ESB.. and that was for graflexs only... once RoTJ rolled around and Hamill used the v3... it’s very likely the v3 clamp had tape added at some time

 

[Halliwax]

Enhanced Ewok Saber. Very black booster, and cone knob.

Keep in mind the Ewok Village was an internal set, so it was shot at Elstree. Not sure if it was before or after the throne room stuff, but it was certainly before anything shot in Yuma.

I got the rinzler books coming this week so we can sit down and pin point exactly where and when these sabers are.. maybe it will shed some light

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Enhanced Ewok Saber. Very black booster, and cone knob.

Keep in mind the Ewok Village was an internal set, so it was shot at Elstree. Not sure if it was before or after the throne room stuff, but it was certainly before anything shot in Yuma.

ALL Sandstorm, Ewok village, Endor Landing platform (footage with Prowse and Hamill together, with the V2, that is) and Death Star duel footage was shot in England. In this footage, the V2 is the primary belt hanger hero and the V3 is the dueling stunt...

Then they travel to the US and bring the V2 and V3 with them...

During that time the Yuma dueling hilt is created....

The Yuma and Crescent city footage is then shot in the US. The Yuma replaces the V3 as the primary stunt with a rod while filming in Yuma. The V2 goes into private hands and the V3 goes into the archives...

Main production wraps..the ISYHCANL insert shot is completed with a new, but simplified box, on the cleaned-up Yuma saber and a stand-in for David Prowse is employed. After that, yet another box is installed in the Yuma saber with a sliding clamp card and electronics and the cut saber construction footage is filmed. Then, the Yuma Hero is retired to the archives...

 

[Halliwax]

Alley you the man! When is speeder bike, and Ewok celebration filmed?

 

[SethS]

ALL Sandstorm, Ewok village, Endor Landing platform (footage with Prowse and Hamill together, with the V2, that is) and Death Star duel footage was shot in England. In this footage, the V2 is the primary belt hanger hero and the V3 is the dueling stunt...

Then they travel to the US and bring the V2 and V3 with them...

During that time the Yuma dueling hilt is created....

The Yuma and Crescent city footage is then shot in the US. The Yuma replaces the V3 as the primary stunt with a rod while filming in Yuma. The V2 goes into private hands and the V3 goes into the archives...

Main production wraps..the ISYHCANL insert shot is completed with a new, but simplified box, on the cleaned-up Yuma saber and a stand-in for David Prowse is employed. After that, yet another box is installed in the Yuma saber with a sliding clamp card and electronics and the cut saber construction footage is filmed. Then, the Yuma Hero is retired to the archives...

Exactly...

Which is why I posted this three pages ago talking about prep.

The booster in ROTJ is kind of like the screws on the graflex in ESB. It seems random that they are silver sometimes, but not others. But when you look at production order, not scene order, you see that the silver screws are in scenes shot in Norway.

Here's my theory, probably full of holes:

ANH

Shared stunts are made from scratch. V3 is a bit undersized, likely not fully completed. Emitter rotates, but no motor. V2 gets motor and Graflex clamp with long lever.

I think both are painted to relatively match the Obi-Wan hero. Maybe not at the same time or in the exact same way, but painted none the less. This includes black grenades and boosters.

At some point the pommel of the V2 comes loose, so the black booster gets covered with gaffer's tape to help keep the pommel in place.

ESB

The V2 and V3 are used in rehearsals. The tape has been removed from the V2. Both are rigged to hold non-motorized blades, the engine is pulled from the V2. The V3 still has no clamp. At this point the both have banged up paint jobs. Rattle can paint on bare aluminum scratches so easily. I can see them looking the way they do just from banging around in a box or not properly stowed.

At this stage they are basically identical. The worn paint is obviously unique, but the weathering style is similar. The V3 is a little smaller, and has the more visible seam line, the V2 has a darker booster and a clamp with the long lever.

ROTJ

In England the V2 is pressed into service looking much like it did in ESB BTS images. The booster is still mostly black, but whatever pattern damage to the paint that removing the gaffers tape gave it (mottled random glue splotches) basically sets the stage for how it will continue to be worn down as it is handled.

The V3 is made into the stunt version, so it is given a graflex clamp and PCB card from ESB leftover parts.

By the time they get to Yuma, the V2 has looks more like it does now with more paint having flaked off. The V3 is not needed because the Yuma has been made from scratch as part of the prep for shooting, likely based on a resin V3 copy. The V3 is not used for the rest of the production.

For the pickup shots, the Yuma was repainted to look "new." The box was slightly altered after the INSYHCANL insert for the cave-build scene.

POST ROTJ

The V2 vanished. The V3 was repainted and given a new edge card to better resemble the hero.

 

[Halliwax]

Another thing is, have you played with gaffers tape?

It is a VERY strong tape, try wrinkling and ripping it at the wrinkles.

Throw it on a booster and throw the gaffers tape covered boost all over the place..

It’s not gonna rip.. if we are saying there are rips in the gaffers tape in the picture below

To rule this out.. the stunt graflexs still have gaffers tape covering the clamp today.. and it’s in just fine shape

I’m sorry guys, I just can’t buy this

But I still love you all!!

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Alley you the man! When is speeder bike, and Ewok celebration filmed?

All Ewok village scenes—including the Threepio levitation scene and the celebration scene were shot in the studio in England.

The Speeder bike scene was shot later, when the company travelled to the US in northern CA.

 

[SethS]

I've played with gaffer's tape a ton actually, on set its used for everything. Lot's of tape is used on sets. Gaffer is sort of a catch all term. It specifically is meant to stick hard, not reflect light, but also be easy to pull off because it's always used for a temporary reason.

It's generally fibrous, but most every grip/PA working in the camera department is also going to have matte black paper tape for floor marks or other little things. A lot of time on set "gaffer's tape" is a catchall term for any tape.

I will say the tape I am seeing on the booster in that one pic looks more like paper tape to me.

I can't say it for certain, but tape pulled off of black paint would give the look the booster has. That plus that one pic has me feeling tape-y.

Also, just curious if this has ever been discussed. But do we know where exactly the motor sat in these things? Would it generate heat? Could the tape have been to keep the saber from burning the user's hand?

 

[vadermania]

Also, just curious if this has ever been discussed. But do we know where exactly the motor sat in these things? Would it generate heat? Could the tape have been to keep the saber from burning the user's hand?

I would think the motor sat in the booster part of the saber. The pommel/sink knob was affixed with grub screws for "easy maintenance". Perhaps it was a motor with a transmission attached to it on top, so the whole motor/transmission construct stuck in the booster and maybe in the clamp area as well.

 

[thd9791]

Poopapapapalps Found a very good candidate for a motor, about the size of a D battery that could slide right into the clamp/booster area. No idea how that would attach to a steel rod, because I'm mechanically dumb

 

[Dann]

I've played with gaffer's tape a ton actually, on set its used for everything. Lot's of tape is used on sets. Gaffer is sort of a catch all term. It specifically is meant to stick hard, not reflect light, but also be easy to pull off because it's always used for a temporary reason.

It's generally fibrous, but most every grip/PA working in the camera department is also going to have matte black paper tape for floor marks or other little things. A lot of time on set "gaffer's tape" is a catchall term for any tape.

I will say the tape I am seeing on the booster in that one pic looks more like paper tape to me.

I can't say it for certain, but tape pulled off of black paint would give the look the booster has. That plus that one pic has me feeling tape-y.

Also, just curious if this has ever been discussed. But do we know where exactly the motor sat in these things? Would it generate heat? Could the tape have been to keep the saber from burning the user's hand?

I also work in the industry, so I know real sand isn't gonna be hurled at actors at high speed like that.

Still, a quick spray job of paint on bare aluminum (from when the stunts were painted to look like old Ben's hilt) could chip/flake off pretty easily, with all the handling that thing went through over the years, I'm a little surprised there's any paint left on it at all.

I have several rolls of black gaff AND black paper tape right here, I've used both and many other kinds of tape a TON working on movies.

If you're saying you see black paper tape in the pic with Alec Guinness, I have to say I disagree. It wouldn't reflect the light the way it is in that photo. It's used in many situations (as I'm sure you know, from working in the industry) specifically BECAUSE of its anti-reflective properties.

 

[Dann]

Poopapapapalps Found a very good candidate for a motor, about the size of a D battery that could slide right into the clamp/booster area. No idea how that would attach to a steel rod, because I'm mechanically dumb

Most motors have a shaft of some kind, so I'd guess a collar with some set screws to join the two together. In ANH, were they steel, or wood dowels? Or squared wood sticks?

 

[thd9791]

We use Gaffer tape a lot at the museum I work at. There is the cloth-y type stuff in white and black and I actually have the "smooth" matte version at home (a v2 add-on that I changed my mind on) To me, only that smooth dull stuff could reflect light that way. And that is THICK tape, I feel like that difference would show up.

though I have to say, the tape idea is a good hypothesis on the V2's pattern, ....though isn't it like that all over the saber? Is there a thick laquer that is so strong it would wear away this way? If this is the case, I HAVE to laquer my V2 then I'd dust rose gold or antique brass over the windvane, leaving the black showing through, which to me matches that tone.

Dan - Wood square tapered dowels but the V2's remaining rod is dense metal I think, maybe a tang for the blades

 

[Halliwax]

I've played with gaffer's tape a ton actually, on set its used for everything. Lot's of tape is used on sets. Gaffer is sort of a catch all term. It specifically is meant to stick hard, not reflect light, but also be easy to pull off because it's always used for a temporary reason.

It's generally fibrous, but most every grip/PA working in the camera department is also going to have matte black paper tape for floor marks or other little things. A lot of time on set "gaffer's tape" is a catchall term for any tape.

I will say the tape I am seeing on the booster in that one pic looks more like paper tape to me.

I can't say it for certain, but tape pulled off of black paint would give the look the booster has. That plus that one pic has me feeling tape-y.

Also, just curious if this has ever been discussed. But do we know where exactly the motor sat in these things? Would it generate heat? Could the tape have been to keep the saber from burning the user's hand?

Brandon said the motor sat in the clamp area. There is set screws under the clamp that pitch/held the motor in place

 

[Halliwax]

Poopapapapalps Found a very good candidate for a motor, about the size of a D battery that could slide right into the clamp/booster area. No idea how that would attach to a steel rod, because I'm mechanically dumb

I got a surprise coming very soon...

 

[Halliwax]

If we are using the excuse that there is gaffers tape on the booster and that’s why the paint feel off?

How do you explain the paint falling off the windvane and emitter?

Like dann said. Cheap rush job of spray paint

Another BIG plus is you can hear Hamill’s wedding band tapping the v3 while practicing.. I can see that removing paint fast as well

These stunts were thrown in boxes, dropped on the ground, kicked around, thrown.. the v2 is even used in the pyrotechnic scene in the throne room.. they didn’t care

The paint fell off these from wear and tear just like the grips on the graflex

Now who wants to go get a beer?!?!