Give me back Sebastian Shaw at end of ROTJ

jediscout

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
RANT.

Ugh. I've been watching the Star Wars movies showing on TV--and man does replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden really tick me off. I know it's supposed to tie the crappy prequels in with the original trilogy--but it doesn't even make sense.

THIS is the Anakin that's supposed to be 'light'? At this time in his development, he'd already slaughtered all the Tuskins--and potentially all the younglings. The only Anakin it would maybe make sense to show as 'light' or 'redeemed' would be Tatooine Kid Anakin--or super early Padawan Anakin. But you can't show him as Hayden/Anakin and have it make any more sense than Shaw. Really, it's SHAW/Vader who is redeemed--and only at the end of life. Showing Hayden is just a lame link to the prequels.

The more I think about the Prequels, the more I think they spectacularly suck in a giant suck-fest of suckage. And I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan. But all the pointless characters with build-up that went no where. Aurra Sing, Zam, the Diner scene, the Chancellor, underused Dooku and overused Windu. What was the point? the various subplots that are too complicated for a child to follow & too boring--also, the story lines. Bad dialog, wretched acting. Hello, Natalie?

The Anakin character failed to deliver. He was bad nearly immediately. There wasn't a slow degeneration--no opportunity to see him struggle against the dark side, or have a shattering moment of character reversal. Hayden or the writers or both just played him like a self-indulgent jerk from the beginning. He never seemed to be a 'good' kid who got corrupted. He seemed like a jerk who stayed a jerk and then ended up acting like a jerk and blah blah blah...yawn. Oh wait. He's worried Padme might die. And then he kills her.

Never believed Padme would fall for someone she first met when he was a chubbly little kid. Yuck. I'm thinking about kids I babysat for--and I wouldn't have wanted to sleep with any of them a few years later. She's a senator and Queen and has spent her whole life defending the rights of others, working with endangered populations--but her boyfriend slaughters a troop of Tuskins and suddenly she's fine with revenge/murder? Padme must be a lot more messed up than I thought--or was portrayed in the movies. It doesn't track with the character that she'd forgive him that atrocity. If we're supposed to believe it, then the movie's already failed to show plausible strong love between Padme and Anakin--or why Anakin's worth sticking with. Padme disintegrates from an awesome Leader and awesome Let Me Climb Up this Arena Pillar and Save Myself to weepy and useless. By episode III she's really only a womb.

Maybe if Anakin had been shown increasingly violent against Padme--abusing her/mistrusting her more as he descended into madness--slapping her, apologizing etc, then I'd have bought the sudden choking. I remember watching that scene and thinking "huh?" which totally took me out of the movie. There wasn't any emotional build-up, just scene after unfolding scene with no emotional grit.

You know a character that I totally believed as conflicted and desperate to balance himself--the guy who played the Goblin's son in the Spiderman flicks. Whoever that guy is nailed a tortured, conflicted persona. I totally believed his love/hate of Peter Parker, reluctant twisting into a new and terrible person. If the Anakin character had been played with that complexity, I would have cared about his fall. I would have at least believed the story I was being told.

Obi was a bitchy, snarky ass up to and throughout Anakin's training. He was incredibly patronizing. I'd have hated him as a master--and it didn't make sense for him to have such a passive-aggressive attitude toward Anakin. Jeez. I wanted to fight Obi by the end of the movie, just to make him stop being such a pissy girl.

The Jedi don't seem like guardians of peace, they seem ineffective and foolish. All that meditation and training for what? What's the point of the Jedi Council except to be dithering time-wasters and nay-sayers. How crappy was the training anyway if one pissed Jedi and a bunch of clones can kill them all? ALL those Jedi and no one suspects Anakin's turning dark? No one can penetrate the secrets he's keeping? Murder, revenge, sex, duplicity? Wait, let me guess--the 'dark side' masks it all. Remember the Arena? Got their butts kicked there too. Are these the B-Team jedi? The Jedi don't seem particularly special.

It even bothers me that Ben and Owen Lars sport robes on Tatooine that look like the outfits the Jedi are all wearing in the Prequels. I like the desert robes for the desert. That everyone wears them seemed like a heavy-handed nod toward samuri and fighting monks. I get it already.

Lava surfing. Really. This is how the big final fight goes down? Overly colorized and elongated computer images, unfathomable fight location--and a final fight that looks like they were testing out a Star Wars video game? What a disappointment. Lava surfing and stupid stunts don't make an impressive final lightsabre duel.

Midichlorians make me SO freaking irate I can't even go there.

MAN. I'm really irritated.

I wanted to love these movies. All the green screening must have really thrown the actors off--cause the overall emotional effect is tremendously flat. All the costumes and digital locations in the world can't make up for the fact that the story is overly padded in silly ways and lacking in grit and depth when it needs it. I'm actually becoming a fan of the Phantom Edit/fan edits. They restore the coolness I expect via good editing. Characters become more soulful, story lines tighten up. Ugh. It kills me that a franchise I love so much, whose existence literally saved my life when I was a kid, ended via the prequels on such a disappointing note.

I want Shaw back. And Han shoots first. And if those freaking Midichlorians had never been mentioned I think I'd be a lot more chill about the Prequels.
 
The need for this thread is why? Prequel complaint soapbox thread on the RPF number 43363677?

They are just movies! GET OVER IT!

I am so sick of the whining. You people whine worse than Anakin. Just for once I'd like you to take the microscope you put the prequels under and stick the OT under it, or other movies for that matter.

In a recent thread about BTTF a rather large plothole was found and the reaction was more or less "oh its just a movie." Really? So every other movie out there gets slack cut, but the prequels have to be up to this unbelievably impossible standard of what you envisioned in your mind?

Either move on or shut up and enjoy them for what they are.
 
RANT.

Ugh. I've been watching the Star Wars movies showing on TV--and man does replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden really tick me off. I know it's supposed to tie the crappy prequels in with the original trilogy--but it doesn't even make sense.

THIS is the Anakin that's supposed to be 'light'? At this time in his development, he'd already slaughtered all the Tuskins--and potentially all the younglings. The only Anakin it would maybe make sense to show as 'light' or 'redeemed' would be Tatooine Kid Anakin--or super early Padawan Anakin. But you can't show him as Hayden/Anakin and have it make any more sense than Shaw. Really, it's SHAW/Vader who is redeemed--and only at the end of life. Showing Hayden is just a lame link to the prequels.

Then showing Shaw in the end wouldn't be right either.
 
Its a damn good rant, scout. Nice you see you round these parts again.

I know you know but a lot of this ground has been covered here already. But yeah, couldn't agree more with your major gripes. The Anakin character doesn't work. Neither does his relationship with Padme. There's nothing interesting at all in his fall to the dark side.

Lucas forgot his alluded to plot points from the OT. The Anakin Obi relationship should have been less master/apprentice, and more brothers instead. Palpatine coudl have taken over the father role. Yoda's supposed to be Obi-Wan's master.

The Force was a mysterious power, that anyone could master. This tells kids they have unlimited potential.

Go and make it bacteria in the bloodstream and bang, subliminal message to every child that they are born with only so much potential. Tasty pick, bonehead!

I'll stick up for Ewan in the prequels... he's the only guy who went to Lucas to change his own lines. Too bad there still wasn't anything to work with.
 
I don't understand that if Hayden Christensen replaces Sebastian Shaw, why not do the logical thing and replace Sir Alec with Ewan and Old Yoda with Young, Vibrant Yoda? Adding in Hayden is silly, but if you're going to do it, do all three. Just replacing one doesn't make any sense.
 
Hey, look everyone another bash on the prequels thread.

Where do we send the tissue?

:unsure
 
LOL! Look, I labeled it 'RANT' and I totally credit the SW movies with saving my life as a kid. I love them. But... having just watched all the movies again, I am re-energized with antipathy toward the Prequels.

:lol

What's so odd is how much I continue to lurve me some SW, even though I firmly believe the Prequel stories were a disappointment--and the fx leave me wanting something less obviously altered. The really overt colorization of environments was weird for me. Did anyone else find that distracting? I remember thinking--it's a RED planet, it's a BLUE planet, it's a SEPIA planet...
 
hee hee

I just realized what I was trying to say--for me, the Prequels killed the 'magic' that was (my) Star Wars. You know how it's said if you leave a little left to the imagination, that often that's better? I find this to be the case with the Prequels. But the Midicholrians--that sums up the effect of the newer movies for me. By making it bugs in the bloodstream, the magic, the mystery the potential that any one of us might be 'special' or jedi-like was quashed. It's a trick of birth, luck of the draw--not a wonderful stream of force that anyone has the potential to tuck into. Or, that's how I see it and why I wish they'd never even mentioned the little Midi buggers.
 
Adding in Hayden is silly, but if you're going to do it, do all three. Just replacing one doesn't make any sense.

I was just thinking about this the other day when ROTJ was on. I agree with most of the gripes about the PT. I think it was totally ill-conceived. Episode 1 was particularly bad. It's pratically unwatchable for me at this point. At the same time I'm thankful for the prequels because they were exciting when they came out. I try to look at them as seperate from the OT so it doesn't ruin them for me. It's hard to do that when Lucas put Hayden in ROTJ. Incomprehensible.
 
hee hee

I just realized what I was trying to say--for me, the Prequels killed the 'magic' that was (my) Star Wars. You know how it's said if you leave a little left to the imagination, that often that's better? I find this to be the case with the Prequels. But the Midicholrians--that sums up the effect of the newer movies for me. By making it bugs in the bloodstream, the magic, the mystery the potential that any one of us might be 'special' or jedi-like was quashed. It's a trick of birth, luck of the draw--not a wonderful stream of force that anyone has the potential to tuck into. Or, that's how I see it and why I wish they'd never even mentioned the little Midi buggers.

Are they not just a way to measure the force in a person..they are little things that are attracted to force strong beings?
 
Are they not just a way to measure the force in a person..they are little things that are attracted to force strong beings?

That was my read on it, too. They're not the Force themselves, but rather indicators of how attuned a certain person is to the Force.

I think GL was really trying for a theme of symbiosis in TPM, but the Midichlorian thing was definitely a slip, even if doesn't change our definition of the Force itself, it's not good to demistify its power in any way.

Hector
 
As it seems to be the "in" thing to use member quotes in signatures these days, jediscout may have just given us the best one yet...

By episode III she's really only a womb.

Love it! :lol
 
Hm. I guess I'll throw in my words too, then. I personally like the Prequals. I don't think They're as bad as They're made out to be. I'd certainly rather watch them then something like say... Batman Begins or The Dark Knight. I will agree about the romance part. Han and Leia was watchable. Anakin and Padme is just disturbing for me. That's really one of my only problems.

Everyone has an opinion and everyone is welcome to them. There are those who hate them, and there are those who like them. That is something that everyone on both sides has to accept.
 
That is one of my biggest gripes about the complainers. They don't even understand what they are complaining about.

Midichlorians are not the Force. They simply add a name to what we already knew - that strength in the force is partially controlled by genetics. Certain bloodlines are stronger in the force than others. This is how it has always been. The beloved Original Trilogy established it very clearly.
 
I don't understand that if Hayden Christensen replaces Sebastian Shaw, why not do the logical thing and replace Sir Alec with Ewan and Old Yoda with Young, Vibrant Yoda? Adding in Hayden is silly, but if you're going to do it, do all three. Just replacing one doesn't make any sense.

Exactly. It doesn't make sense to just have a young Anakin with an Old Obi when both died in their later years. They should have aged Anakin if they were going to replace Shaw or do as you said, replace both with Hayden and Ewan.

That aspect has always bugged me as not really making any sense.
 
The whole point of the prequel trilogy is that we all get to take a journey of hatred and betrayal WITH Anakin. You think Jar Jar existed for any other purpose than to drive Anakin AND the audience to the dark side?!
 
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