Ghostbusters 2 Life size Vigo painting

[Kingpin]

You might consider removing that part about "official documentation forging" unless you have hard proof of such

I was using "official documentation" as an example, I'm pretty sure Rhett hasn't been making copies of Jackson Pollocks and old dutch masters. You leapt to the conclusion I was making some sort of charge by it.

If I had been making an actual charge of document forgery, I would've said "and Rhett has forged official documents in the past", not "if a man...".

 

[Art Andrews]

Then I stand by my statement that your example is highly hypocritical considering the hobby you are in and is very close to trolling as you are making a great leap in logic by implying that Rhett offering the Vigo painting is some sort of "gateway" action to more serious crimes. Lets not be coy about what your purpose is. If you have hard evidence than post it and you will see no arguments from us. However, if you are only here to make statements like the one above, perhaps this is not the place for you.

 

[Kingpin]

Hypocritical? Now you've lost me.

The point I conveyed was: if a person goes from one type of prop replication (in which he has received quite a bit of criticism for acts he's committed) to another and there's some debate about the practices in hand, it's important to have a historical record to work from in order to see if said person is up to their old tricks. That's what the posting of the resin parts has been in relation to.

There was no hidden meaning to what I'd written, it was no suggestion for what could happen in Rhett's future nor some attempt to accuse him of something new, you've intepretted a lot more significance from the post I'd made than I'd actually written.

 

[Rhett J Martin]

Hi,
Bet this post will double the views . . .
I'm going to go ahead and respond to this by addressing each basic issue, simply and direct.

My main interest is for the claims of recasting to be proven.


Vigo:
Mute point. This was a community effort; printed, packed, and shipped. Basic info about the film prop's creation was obtained from artist D. Rhymar and posted (Ghostbusters.net, 10/02/09) months before AJ obtained the same info and posted on GBFans.
What I've found most amusing, is NOONE has had any problem with me printing the Four Muses image.

I have never seen it that way, and that is one reason why I didn't take other people's images without permission when I was making my website in the late 90's.

AJ, you currently feature a photo at the bottom of your website (the lovely lady in your t-shirt), taken by Mike Syproni, who has repeatedly requested you remove the image. You may want to take that down.

OMNI cover:
I used a scan given to me by the orginal owner of the screenused prop, altered it, and began creating an interest thread to sell it. I also added to and retouched a lesser version as an example. I also created my own version, but the thread was closed before it could be posted. At no time was I contacted by the props current owner, or asked to remove it by them. The mods DID contact me and asked it to be removed/stopped. I have never sold it, or distributed it. I have even ENFORCED its removal from my own paper prop threads. I have repeatedly refused selling it, or distributing it. I've actually deleted the two high rez files I was given by GBDetroit. Of course, the OMNI's still hanging around in a lesser free form on this website (http://www.therpf.com/f9/ghostbusters-paper-prop-19133/) AND hung around on GBFans for more than a year. Guess that's okay.

I see this as a mute point as well, but if noone can provide proof of digital recasting, I'll be happy to post comparisons of the versions that are out there, compared to the one I created.

Phatom50's knobs:
I have long admitted to recasting the teardrop knob, round knurled knob, and disk plate knob from Brock. This was a mistake. I paid for it, destroyed the molds, and either built, or bought new masters. Those are the masters I use today. I still have my teardrop knob, plate knob, and knurled knob bought from Brock. I also own real teardrop knobs and a knurled knob to master from, although the knurled wasn't used on any of the last runs I've done of traps in the last 5 years. The disk plate was "machined" on my dremel from resin. I've longed moved on from this, as it happended in 2005-2006. I can provide pics of ALL these knobs for comparison, but I don't see the point.

As for the recasting of the goggles knobs, I'll give you the chance to withdraw that one before I dive headfirst into your false claims above.

Propfan's grips
The grips I've been using since mid 2007 (thrower kit 3.0) were created with a base of pink insulation foam and a skin of Apoxie Sculpt, as Vaderman1701 mentioned above. The master was destoyed when extracted, but thanks to AJ getting me to dig through my large masters collection, I've found the cast master, used to create the second mold.
AJ, who used this false claim as the cheif reason for my bannings, now claims to have had a pair of those grips for the last three years, but has never posted pics/proof of the recasting, should now prove his claim.
I'll be happy to allow him a few more days before I post up the pic of my master, with the texture of the foam intact on the interior, as well as the sculpting tells and the larger rear end.

Utinni's kit parts
The parts Utinni claimed MIGHT have been recasted were not part of a resin kit like his, but a vacuform kit (v1.0 -2.5). Some parts he was curious about, like the trigger box, were vacuformed, not cast.
I'm more than willing to give Utinni a few days to post proof, as I've sent along pics of the parts in question. If not, I'll be happy to post up pics of the parts I still have, which include the slo-blo casting, slo-blo round peg master, and the leftover tube ring, which was converted from thick wall to thin wall pvc. I'm even willing to post the trigger box master from the 3.0 thrower kit, which was all resin.
I would like to add, that Utinni has been a class act in making his claim.

Also, I'm not one for tooting my own horn, but here's a reminder of my last few years here on the RPF.

Bring it on boys . . . .

 

[Amish Trooper]

Nice TB blaster. I jest felt this thread has been all over the place I would add to it.

 

[Art Andrews]

Hypocritical? Now you've lost me.

In that case you are either being unamusingly coy or you are a bit slow.

You came here solely in order to jump on the dog pile on Rhett and have done so, more by making ridiculous statements like the one we are now debating than by posting hard facts. Lets not play games about why you are here or the purpose of your posts.

The point I conveyed was: if a person goes from one type of prop replication (in which he has received quite a bit of criticism for acts he's committed) to another and there's some debate about the practices in hand, it's important to have a historical record to work from in order to see if said person is up to their old tricks. That's what the posting of the resin parts has been in relation to.

So, given what you have said, you think it is important to document all the copyright infringement that goes on at gbfans.com (or whichever GB site you frequent) and those who knowingly have bought items that infringe upon the copyright of another, correct? Since you are taking such a keen interest in such things and since you have already stated that such small lawbreaking activities lead to larger transgressions of the law, one would infer that all those at gbfans.com who have either bought or sold props which infringe on a copyright and are therefore lawbreakers are certain to move on to more serious crimes in the future... maybe money laundering, bootlegging, the trafficking of illegal substances... Sound ridiculous? It is, as was your post that I pointed out above regarding "forging" paintings leading to official document forgery. If you have facts to add to this issue, then by all means add them. However, if all you have to offer is this kind of thing, show yourself out of this thread. Seeing as stirring the pot seems to be the only reason you joined the RPF, you continuing to do so in this thread is wearing your welcome out quickly.

 

[tk1055]

OK since Hotshot has replied, I would like to ask this.

In regard to Vigo, was the original file done for community use? If so then anyone should be able to offer it as a run at cost especially since you are no longer offering them (provided the original team agrees).

Most folks here have an issue with what you did to Superman by derailing his run. Notice it has not moved forward since YOU jumped down his throat. That should have been handled through PMs. That is what ripped the band aid off this scab.

 

[Rhett J Martin]

No, it was obviously not created for community use. It was a group project. Superman was outside that group. If he had used the image used for that run, it would have fallen into the digital recasting realm.
He also started a JY thread without a picture of a product to sell, and stalled on providing a copy of the image he was using to do his run. This is proabably why his run stalled, not because I asked him where his source was.

'Jumping down his throat" is a bit much, tk. I only asked where his source image for his run was coming from, and once he provided clips of his source, and I saw it wasn't the one used in the earlier run, I moved along.

Considering how many of those Vigo's are on eBay and elsewhere, I was well within my rights as the organizer of that run to question his source.

Nuff said. Move along.

 

[tk1055]

I wouldn't say it is much.

Since you organized the run but did no other real work on it from what I have seen, I would say the rest of the team should have come forward to question it not just you AND it should have been kept to PMs. Then when you saw it was NOT the image you used you left with a snide comment.

So this brings back the question of who does the "hobby rights" reside with, the team or the person who did the run?

 

[AJ Quick]

Context and history. If a man forges paintings for several years and then moves onto official documentation forging, you'll want a record of previous acts to work from.

I think its ridiculous that this was interpreted wrongly and could infact get Kingpin banned from the The RPF for saying. What Kingpin is saying is, if someone recasts, you will want a record of it in case he recasts again or does something worse.

Especially if you are considering letting his first recasting expirences slide as a rookie mistake. What if he does it again? If you don't know about the other times you may view it as a rookie mistake again. That's called transparency.

Basic info about the film prop's creation was obtained from artist D. Rhymar and posted (Ghostbusters.net, 10/02/09) months before AJ obtained the same info and posted on GBFans.

This is funny. Because we posted the CORRECT information about two weeks later because you were posting false information about the paintings. Here is our posting:

The REAL History of Vigo's Painting in Ghostbusters 2 - Community - Ghostbusters Fans Forum

Notce that D. Rhymar only painted the set and costume and was not responsible for the whole thing. Infact there was another painter involved, did you get permission from her too? Or the other 5 people that worked for/with Glen Eytchison? No you didn't. You got permission from someone who painted on the costume and set. You are touting that as permission to produce them.

AJ, who used this false claim as the cheif reason for my bannings, now claims to have had a pair of those grips for the last three years, but has never posted pics/proof of the recasting, should now prove his claim.

I'll be happy to allow him a few more days before I post up the pic of my master, with the texture of the foam intact on the interior, as well as the sculpting tells and the larger rear end.

I think its funny. You recasted other items, ripped off dozens of users over the course of what two or three Halloweens? Do you not remember the complaints? And now you are so disillusioned that you think a Proton Gun grip is what got you banned and not a COMBINATION of all of those things? I found the gun grip I bought from you that was recast behind a bookshelf when cleaning up about 6 months ago. I threw it away. I didn't look at it and go.. oh this is neat this is the evidence I need let me put this in my safety deposit box. We had all the proof we needed back on Proptopia. Pictures were posted of your grips side by side with Propfans'.

They had the exact same inaccurate profile. One of the finger grips was curved in and much shallower than the others.. the EXACT same profile was found on Propfan's grips. His were smooth. Yours were cast in foam and then covered in Plastidip. You hoped by making it like this that people wouldn't notice that they were recast... but we did.

The master was destoyed when extracted, but thanks to AJ getting me to dig through my large masters collection, I've found the cast master, used to create the second mold.

How does that help anything? Your 2nd master is a casting from your first run that was recast. That does not make your 2nd master new. If anything it raises further suspicion.

I see this as a mute point as well, but if noone can provide proof of digital recasting, I'll be happy to post comparisons of the versions that are out there, compared to the one I created.

Rhett, what you just claimed you did was find as many sources for the OMNI magazine, touch it up and produce it. You could compare your version to other versions and the difference will be that you touched yours up MORE than other people did. If you had actually "created" it you would have had to take pictures of a Proton Pack you created and then composite a completely new image. Did you? If you didn't.. you didn't "create" it.

I have long admitted to recasting the teardrop knob, round knurled knob, and disk plate knob from Brock. This was a mistake.

Wait? You did? You admitted to doing it? And you admitted to doing it for a long time?

No. You never admitted it until now. Until you HAD to admit it. If you hadn't admitted to it, you would have been banned. Check out this PM from Rhett to Me from last year... it is entitled "Recasting who's knobs?"

AJ,
It's come to my attention that you've posted more untruths about me recasting someones work. I have NEVER recasted anything.

From anyone.

Period.

In legitmate forums such as this, you must prove your claim, and knowing that you have no proof, I'm asking you to remove the recasting claim.
I have no problem with you saying my work has shoddy, as was the case during my first runs of props.

I am completely blown away by you vicious amounts of attacks on me, and am not pleased with what I am hearing.

I am warning you that if you continue to bash me in any way in a public forum, by personal name, or company, I will have no choice but to sue you for libel, and claim damages.

Consider yourself warned.

Bring it on boys . . . .

For someone who is a known (and now admitted) recaster... you act rather smug.

AJ, you currently feature a photo at the bottom of your website (the lovely lady in your t-shirt), taken by Mike Syproni, who has repeatedly requested you remove the image. You may want to take that down.

Are you suggesting I remove a photo that was given to me in exchange for $200 worth of merchandise just because the receiver of said merchandise and I had a falling out months later? I would be happy to take down the photo for the $200 that I paid to have the photos taken in the first place. Frankly, if they want the girl to be taken down.. she is gonna have to lose her shirt.

No, it was obviously not created for community use. It was a group project. Superman was outside that group. If he had used the image used for that run, it would have fallen into the digital recasting realm.

What made it yours? Because you asked if anyone had an image for you to print? If anything those people were mislead into believing you were going to produce the image for a few friends as a gift. Not sell them to everyone at a high markup. Here is the thread for people to look at:

http://www.therpf.com/f9/vigo-carpatian-62698/

He also started a JY thread without a picture of a product to sell, and stalled on providing a copy of the image he was using to do his run. This is proabably why his run stalled, not because I asked him where his source was.

You demanded that he post his source image for everyone to have. He posted a small section of it to show that it wasn't the same as yours. You told him he didn't have permission to make the prints and you did. You were asserting yourself over him. Which caused people to think he was ripping people off. That is the reason why his run didn't happen. You changed the tone to get other people to lose interest.

I was well within my rights as the organizer of that run to question his source.

Organizer? You asked if anyone had an image and EVERYONE ELSE provided the images. How is that organizing? You asked for something, people gave it to you, you sold it. That's it.

Nuff said. Move along.

You really want to sweep all this under the rug.. don't you?

 

[ThrowingChicken]

In that case you are either being unamusingly coy or you are a bit slow.

You came here solely in order to jump on the dog pile on Rhett and have done so, more by making ridiculous statements like the one we are now debating than by posting hard facts. Lets not play games about why you are here or the purpose of your posts.



So, given what you have said, you think it is important to document all the copyright infringement that goes on at gbfans.com (or whichever GB site you frequent) and those who knowingly have bought items that infringe upon the copyright of another, correct? Since you are taking such a keen interest in such things and since you have already stated that such small lawbreaking activities lead to larger transgressions of the law, one would infer that all those at gbfans.com who have either bought or sold props which infringe on a copyright and are therefore lawbreakers are certain to move on to more serious crimes in the future... maybe money laundering, bootlegging, the trafficking of illegal substances... Sound ridiculous? It is, as was your post that I pointed out above regarding "forging" paintings leading to official document forgery. If you have facts to add to this issue, then by all means add them. However, if all you have to offer is this kind of thing, show yourself out of this thread. Seeing as stirring the pot seems to be the only reason you joined the RPF, you continuing to do so in this thread is wearing your welcome out quickly.

Whoa, are you serious? The guy was illustrating a point, not making further accusations. YOU completely took it the wrong way. That is YOUR fault. And then to call the guy slow? That is pretty disappointing.

 

[Bootlegger137]

What made it yours? Because you asked if anyone had an image for you to print? If anything those people were mislead into believing you were going to produce the image for a few friends as a gift. Not sell them to everyone at a high markup. Here is the thread for people to look at:

http://www.therpf.com/f9/vigo-carpatian-62698/



You demanded that he post his source image for everyone to have. He posted a small section of it to show that it wasn't the same as yours. You told him he didn't have permission to make the prints and you did. You were asserting yourself over him. Which caused people to think he was ripping people off. That is the reason why his run didn't happen. You changed the tone to get other people to lose interest.



Organizer? You asked if anyone had an image and EVERYONE ELSE provided the images. How is that organizing? You asked for something, people gave it to you, you sold it. That's it.

As an outsider with no vested interest in the outcome, reading these accusations regarding Vigo and the above referenced thread, I agree with the statement I emphasized above.

It sounds to me like all HotShot did (after reading that thread) was find someone who was able to print up the images. Whether it was "at cost" or not, I can't know. Does that give him the right of "ownership?" Not im my eyes. If anyone was going question the image Superman was going to use, I would think it should have been AZSpidey or Ramiel.

Here's a quote from the link posted above:

Not my work . .that beauty's ALLL AZSpidey.
I've got the gigantic Ramiel version too (printer has both too) but I think we should let folks take one more crack at!

Can't beleive this thread is still this much fun after a week!!!
Too cool!

Not that my impartial opinion should mean anything. OMMV :unsure

 

[Rhett J Martin]

Spin your tires on Vigo as much as you like.

I'm calling your bluff on the recasting and asking for proof. Actually, at this point, I'm DEMANDING proof, not more unbacked chatter. Your either in or out AJ. Get on with it.

 

[Art Andrews]

Whoa, are you serious? The guy was illustrating a point, not making further accusations. YOU completely took it the wrong way. That is YOUR fault.

There is illustrating a point and there is being so over the top about something that your approach negates the purpose you are trying to achieve. I applaud the passion behind those who are posting but some their techniques hearken to very dark times in the RPF's past where cleverly crafted statements damn an individual and cast more doubt upon a person than is necessary and our threshold for tolerating such is very limited.

As I have pointed out to AJ privately, take a look at a post like phantom 50's. Obviously he feels cheated by Hotshot. He posted his side of the story and posted photos to back up what he had to say.

Now take a look at what kinpin posted. He is basically fearmongering by implying that us not taking Rhett out will inevitably lead to Rhett moving on to bigger and more serious real world type crimes. Again, this hearkens back to "what-if" scenarios that used to be posted at this site that always painted a perceived enemy in the worst possible light and was specifically posted to create a sense of fear and mistrust. This is NOT the way to get your point across or put your enemies in their place... at least not here. If someone is wrong and has done misdeeds then post the facts, not this kind of hypothetical drivel.

And then to call the guy slow? That is pretty disappointing.

If you really think I am calling kingpin slow, then you misunderstand me. I don't think he is slow for a second. I think he is quite clever and knows exactly what he was doing and now is playing the "who, me?" card as if he were "slow."

 

[Art Andrews]

It sounds to me like all HotShot did (after reading that thread) was find someone who was able to print up the images. Whether it was "at cost" or not, I can't know. Does that give him the right of "ownership?" Not im my eyes. If anyone was going question the image Superman was going to use, I would think it should have been AZSpidey or Ramiel.

Perhaps I am wrong, but at this point, I don't think anyone would argue that Rhett came on WAY too harshly in the Superman thread.

 

[Rhett J Martin]

I'd have to agree with that as well.
I've since cleaned out my PM box, but I believe I sent him an apology and a thank you.

 

[ThrowingChicken]

But in the context of the thread, that is not at all what Kingpin was saying, which is somewhat ironic considering context was the very thing he was addressing. You only need to look above, Kingpin is replying to this line:

Vigo painting - Hotshots bad Resin parts in the past: connection??????

He then illustrates why there is a connection, and why all facts should be considered. Here is another example:

If a man kills neighborhood pets for several years and then moves onto murder, you'll want a record of previous acts to work from.

Would anyone then reply with, "YOU BETTER HAVE PROOF TO BACK THAT MURDER ACCUSATION UP!!!"? No, of course not, which is why I am having to sigh and shake my head at the outrage. At best you could say the comparison using forging was too close for comfort, but there is no need to misinterpret the man.

 

[ThrowingChicken]

Spin your tires on Vigo as much as you like.

I'm calling your bluff on the recasting and asking for proof. Actually, at this point, I'm DEMANDING proof, not more unbacked chatter. Your either in or out AJ. Get on with it.

Why don't you just post the photos you claim will clear your name? What is with the withholding act?

 

[Rhett J Martin]

Cause I've called. Time to show there cards.

 

[Onkelpsycho]

This is not really a good example...

I know, you are some kind of "If someone recast, he is out forever" guys. But I think the RPF take these things serious enough, and handle it the same way...

And I know, I often was criticised for being a little liberal in these cases in the past. At Gbfans, and so in the Proptopia Board. And I dont make friends at this time, believe me. One reason for being inactive on both boards the last time...

I remember the last cases, and even if I think that recasting is the worst thing, what you can do in a trusted and helpful community, I often thought of the consequences for these people.
The Recast of Propfan was written in every board, even the boards, where he was never a member...

I dont know if thats the way you handle things in the US, Canada or wherever. But personally I think these things can be discussed from via PM, and if its necessary to ban someone, than this can be done without a big thread about "why he is banned and the reasons in every little detail".

And no-one ever had a problem with hotshots props, and he never made a really bad prop for sale in this board. So, whats the story? What do you want? Make it public in the whole world, that he recasted something? That he stops to make props at all?

Maybe I miss the point, but if an alcoholic stops to drink, is he still an alcoholic forever, his whole life for you guys?

Dont get me wrong, but I dont know why are you so resentful...

Maybe thats some of the global differences in the prop community...