Marv
Sr Member
Didn't the music of Danny at sea sound like one of the old films about Greek mythology - can't think of the name - clash of the titans or something. Bit of a Helen of Troy moment but with her on board.
Game of Thrones
- Thread starter Husker75
- Start date
So my first thought was that right after confirming that Jon is NOT Ned Stark's son, he's proclaimed King of the North, based solely on Ned's blood. Now i believe Littlefinger is totally aware of it,& is just going to hold that bit of info close to the vest.
At the right time, he'll either be able to disqualify Jon to the North, or Sansa, whichever will serve him better.
At the right time, he'll either be able to disqualify Jon to the North, or Sansa, whichever will serve him better.
Jon still has Stark blood. Actually, he has both Ice and Fire blood.
Anyone else start humming "A Little Priest" from Sweeney Todd during Arya's scene with Walder?
"It's Frey... Have some, whatcha say...
Some freshly made special right here in this castle today..."
"It's Frey... Have some, whatcha say...
Some freshly made special right here in this castle today..."
asalaw
Master Member
Pinky's going to have to do some thinking. Sure, he openly and loudly declared for House Stark, but as Sansa points out, so what? He loses nothing by picking up his knights and going home -- to Cersei. He's been playing both ends against the middle for a very long time. And after that, I could easily see him switching to House Targaeryen next season.
But apart from all that, Sansa called his bluff. She spurned him, and the lords of the North proved Pinky woefully wrong by unanimously raising up Jon and proclaiming him King in the North. And even if he's Ned's nephew and not his son, Jon still has Ned's blood running through his veins. Now, the revelation that he's Rhaegar's son, on the other hand -- that could do some damage. No idea where that will fall out though. Even if Jon's name is mud, there's still Sansa. They could dump Jon and declare her Queen in the North.
So I don't think Pinky's gonna get much traction in the North anymore. He's going to turn on a dime and ride south, which is really his only option now if he still means to take the iron throne. Makes me wonder who's gonna kill him...
But apart from all that, Sansa called his bluff. She spurned him, and the lords of the North proved Pinky woefully wrong by unanimously raising up Jon and proclaiming him King in the North. And even if he's Ned's nephew and not his son, Jon still has Ned's blood running through his veins. Now, the revelation that he's Rhaegar's son, on the other hand -- that could do some damage. No idea where that will fall out though. Even if Jon's name is mud, there's still Sansa. They could dump Jon and declare her Queen in the North.
So I don't think Pinky's gonna get much traction in the North anymore. He's going to turn on a dime and ride south, which is really his only option now if he still means to take the iron throne. Makes me wonder who's gonna kill him...
Lord Boron
Sr Member
Not a good time coming for the Lannisters. They have zero claim to the throne and will likely not be recognized by anyone, and now they have zero allies. And where's Brienne? Arya traveled from Bravos to the Riverlands in no time flat. Brienne should have made it back To by at Sansas side by now.
If you believe Bronn, she and Podrick probably stopped several times along the way so she could see what the ladies were all talking about in King's Landing...
I vote Varys. He seems to be the only worthwhile candidate. But it has to be in a way that Littlefinger would never suspect. Varys can't plan and plot and set events into motion. Littlefinger's too good. He'll see it coming a mile away.
No, Varys will have to choke the life out of him personally.
Littlefinger could NEVER predict that Varys would dirty his own hands.
Reelo
Sr Member
Yep, that's what the general consensus is: Bran and Meera cross the wall, and by doing so unwillingly allow the Others to cross it as well.
I think she was referring to Ned's "friend" Rob Baratheon. Remember, he started the whole rebellion in order to "liberate" Lyanna from the clutches of her "kidnapper" Rhaegar. How would he react if he found out she actually ran away with him out of love, and even concieved a child (and prime candidate for the Iron Throne)
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Riceball
Master Member
But they do, Cersei claimed it for herself. With the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant out of the way, along with Tyrells, who's going to say otherwise? She still has all of those Lannister troops under her command, nothing but yes men on her small council, the White Cloaks and Ser Mountain, along with (presumably) the Gold Cloaks as well. With all of that, nobody in King's Landing is going to dare dispute Cersei's claim, esp. with her being the only other living blood relative of Tommen to speak of. Besides,with no heir most people probably don't have too much of a problem with her taking the crown if only to avoid a war of succession with another civil war as various houses and factions fight for thhe Iron Throne, particularly since the last one wasn't all that long ago and memories of it still fresh in some people's minds.
Speaking of Cersei and the crown,did anyone else expect her to pull a Napoleon? I was, and was a bit surprised when it didn't happen, she seems arrogant enough to do something like that, doesn't she?
SmilingOtter
Master Member
Crowning herself? At one time, maybe. But I don't think she's "internally" arrogant enough right now for that sort of gesture - she's solely responsible for Tommen's death and she knows it.
Given her instructions to have Tommen's body burned and the ashes placed in the remains of the sept, I wonder if she's planning to claim that he was there at the time of the explosion. But that would mean she would blame someone else (Tyrion? Pycelle? Varys?) for its destruction.
Given her instructions to have Tommen's body burned and the ashes placed in the remains of the sept, I wonder if she's planning to claim that he was there at the time of the explosion. But that would mean she would blame someone else (Tyrion? Pycelle? Varys?) for its destruction.
Solo4114
Master Member
Cersei taking the throne is a prime example of the tendency, especially in the early and high medieval eras, for the crown to go to the "man on the scene." At this point in time, rules of royal inheritance were a lot foggier. For that matter, so were the notions of "kingdoms" themselves. Often, it was less a question of who had the superior claim (e.g., who was closer in blood to the last ruler), and rather one of who was present to be crowned in the same fashion as the last guy.
Example:
After the death of William the Conqueror, his three surviving sons, William Rufus, Robert "Curthose," and Henry, were each given inheritances. William Rufus was made king of England and became styled William II. Robert "Curthose" became Duke of Normandy (styled as Robert II of Normandy). Henry was given money to buy land. William Rufus and Robert each agreed to become each others' heirs. Yet when Robert died (shot by an arrow in a hunting accident....or was it?!?!?!?!?!), Henry raced to Winchester (then the seat of power for the Norman nobility), grabbed the treasury, and then dashed off to London where he was crowned. Robert was away on crusade, and was basically broke (having mortgaged his duchy to William before William's death). The key factor? Henry (who became Henry I), was the "man on the scene." He was the first to get to London to be crowned, and he had the cash to back up his rule. Robert was simply in no position to contest him, even though he had the better legal claim, having been named William's heir by William himself, and anyway being older than Henry and therefore presumably next in line for the throne. Henry was there, so Henry was king.
The same thing happened when Henry died. Henry's only legitimate son had drowned before his own death, and he had only his daughter Matilda, whom he named as his heir. Meanwhile, Stephen of Blois, one of William the Conqueror's grandsons (his mother was one of William's daughters), was rich, and was in position to race to London to be crowned upon learning of Henry's death. His own elder brother Theobald was therefore passed over, in spite of arguably having a better claim, and his cousin Matilda was likewise passed over in spite of having been explicitly named Henry's heir by Henry himself. Once again: the man on the scene prevails.
Cersei has literally no legitimate claim on the throne. Even Robert's claim was based on the fact that he had Targaeryan blood through his paternal grandmother. Cersei, though? ZERO Targaeryan blood in her lineage, at least based on what we know. You'd have to go something like 4-5 generations back, by which point, it's barely worth mentioning. Her claim is based on proximity and wildfire alone.
Reelo
Sr Member
Aah, good old history lesson. As a real-life example of how complicated matters can be, have a look at Saudi Royal succession rules where rulership is passed on to the brothers instead of the offspring. Only when all brothers of one generation have died does the next generation get a chance. But since there are then so many possible crown-princes (multiple sons to multiple prior kings) this ****s up things very quickly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnatic_seniority?wprov=sfla1
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnatic_seniority?wprov=sfla1
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Axlotl
Master Member
This reminds me of one of my favorite books, "Goshawk Squadron", about WWI fighter pilots.
The author describes every single minute detail of an aerial dogfight for pages and pages, and you're on the edge of your seat rooting for the guy,
then he ends the fantastic breathtaking encounter with a single sentence: "Then his gas tank caught fire and his plane exploded and he died".
Just like that. Like a slap in the face.
I'm glad GoT handles deaths like it does.
I'm unhappy, though, that people are getting their revenge.
I thought the show worked better in the early seasons when you wanted someone to die, and you wanted this person to kill them, but then out of nowhere someone else kills them, denying them their revenge. Now it seems everyone is getting exactly what they wanted and it's less realistic to me.
It's becoming predictable, and I don't watch GoT for predictability - I watch it for the other thing.
Paul Andrew
Master Member
There's been some mention of Varys really getting around between Dorne and Dany's fleet. I submit this screen cap, where off in the right you can see sails that appear to be green with a gold sigil, like Highgarden. Is it possible that the fleet has already visited Dorne at this point and picked up more ships (via Lady Olena) along with Varys?
